French or Russian?

[Magic Man]

In Europe, outside of France and a portion of Belgium, most people don't speak French much.

Yes, they do. It's one of the official language of the EU. It's the third most spoken second language in Europe.

In fact, German is the most widely spoken language in the EU, followed by English, Italian, and then French.

It's the most widely spoken first language in the EU. English is the most widely spoken language in the EU.

Online, German web pages are second in number only to English-written web pages.

Actually, it's third to English and Japanese. It's the second most used European language for websites.

 

[Kathryn]

OK mball, you dumkopf -

I did say in my post that the three official EU languages are English, German and French - but thanks for repeating my point.

I've traveled extensively throughout eastern and western Europe, as well as lived in Europe for three years. My personal experience was that outside of France and portions of Belgium, German was spoken MUCH more than French - especially in Eastern Europe, where many signs, menus, etc are written in the native language, followed by German. Not once did I see any written material in eastern Europe that was written in French, though I'm sure it's lurking there somewhere. The writer of the OP specifically mentioned an interest in travel in eastern Europe.

German is the most widely spoken native or first language in the EU - followed by English, Italian and then French. My point is that French is a distant fourth compared to German. The writer of the OP already speaks English well, and the discussion was on which other language to learn in order to travel a lot through eastern Europe. So - I recommend German since it's everyday usage is more expansive in that region than French.

Our sources must differ on the webpages - though my source is from 2002, so Japanese may have overtaken German. What's your source?
Distribution of languages on the Internet

All that being said, the French language, though somewhat difficult, is PRETTIER than German - there's nothing shabby about it at all. It's a major world language and I'm sure it would come in handy in many circumstances.

German is easy, easy, easy to learn - especially the rules of pronunctiation which are very consistent and similar to English.

But it sure isn't the language of love! It's not sexy, but it's practical, much like the German people themselves.

 

[Gabethewiking]

OK mball -

I did say in my post that the three official EU languages are English, German and French - but thanks for repeating my point.

German is the most widely spoken native or first language in the EU - followed by English, Italian and then French. My point is that French is a distant fourth compared to German. The writer of the OP already speaks English well, and the discussion was on which other language to learn in order to travel a lot through eastern Europe.

Our sources must differ on the webpages - though my source is from 2002, so Japanese may have overtaken German. What's your source?
Distribution of languages on the Internet

I do not really know how your numbers compete to reality. If you go to Eastern Germany most will NOT speak english and if you speak Russian you would do better AS LONG as the generation is old enough (say 80's) whiles the younger one (upwards 80's) will have learnt english but few actually speak it properly.

If you go to France, England or Spain no one speaks German, if you go to Italy they you might as well try Spanish or French as it will be equal to any other language and if you go up to Scnadinavia they speak English fluently whiles also having German and French (both) in the school which you can choose from.

 

[Kathryn]

Here's how my numbers work in reality:

Here are the European countries that you can get around in easily speaking German:

Germany
The Netherlands
Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Austria
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Hungary
Poland
Belgium
Alsace Lorraine region of France

Also, further east and south:

Most of Latvia
Most of Lithuania
Much of the Ukraine
Portions of Estonia and Belarus
Most of Croatia

Here are the countries that you can get around in easily speaking French:

France
Belgium (half the country - the other half hates the French and refuses to speak French)
Luxembourg
Portions of Switzerland
Italy and Spain - you could manage to get by

However, the OP was specifically asking about EASTERN Europe - not western Europe.

As far as eastern Europeans speaking English - that wasn't really the topic. However, I can assure you that most Europeans do NOT speak Russian. Many, many more speak German than Russian, even in the former Eastern bloc countries that are now part of the EU or bordering the EU.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Here's how my numbers work in reality:

Here are the European countries that you can get around in easily speaking German:

Germany
The Netherlands
Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Austria
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Hungary
Poland
Belgium
Alsace Lorraine region of France

Also, further east and south:

Most of Latvia
Most of Lithuania
Much of the Ukraine
Portions of Estonia and Belarus
Most of Croatia

Here are the countries that you can get around in easily speaking French:

France
Belgium (half the country - the other half hates the French and refuses to speak French)
Luxembourg
Portions of Switzerland
Italy and Spain - you could manage to get by

However, the OP was specifically asking about EASTERN Europe - not western Europe.

As far as eastern Europeans speaking English - that wasn't really the topic. However, I can assure you that most Europeans do NOT speak Russian. Many, many more speak German than Russian, even in the former Eastern bloc countries that are now part of the EU or bordering the EU.

Russia is part of Europe, this only works if you exclude Russia. Like me excluding Germany from the world when counting Europe and say. See. more people speak ping ping.

 

[Darkness]

Russia is part of Europe, this only works if you exclude Russia. Like me excluding Germany from the world when counting Europe and say. See. more people speak ping ping.

Well, most people in the ex-Soviet satellites speak Russian. That has to be a large number of people.

According to Wikipedia:

Russian: 164 million primary speakers, 114 million secondary.
German: 105 million primary speakers, 80 million secondary.
French: 136 million primary speakers, unknown number of secondary.

 

[Kathryn]

When traveling through Europe - excluding Russia, which is not a part of Europe per se - if you want to learn a second language in order to get around easily, I recommend German. More Poles, more Czechs, more Slovakians, more Romanians, more Hungarians, more Croatians, more Serbs, speak German as a second language than speak Russian.

German would come in handy because it's also widely used in the Scandinavian and Low Countries.

However, if you're going to be spending more time in Russia, Latvia, or Estonia, or the Ukraine, or Belarus, I recommend Russian as the language to learn.

French is basically useless in Eastern Europe and not widely used in the Scandinavian, Germanic, or Low countries.

The numbers for French speakers are skewered in a sense because many of those who speak French are not in Europe at all, while most who speak German do live in Europe. The numbers for French speakers (as a first language) include Canadians, and former French colonies in Africa and other places far flung from the Motherland.

The question was - French or Russian? I recommend Russian or German, depending on the area one plans to travel most extensively. But if you're expecting Poles and Czechs and Hungarians to speak Russian, you're in for some frustration. They hated being part of the Soviet bloc and have done all they can to distance themselves from that part of their history, including ditching the language. But there are so many ethnic Germans throughout that part of Europe that German has hung on (also due to Germany's economic powerhouse in that region).

 

[Gabethewiking]

Well, most people in the ex-Soviet satellites speak Russian. That has to be a large number of people.

According to Wikipedia:

Russian: 164 million primary speakers, 114 million secondary.
German: 105 million primary speakers, 80 million secondary.
French: 136 million primary speakers, unknown number of secondary.

Yes but they switched after the Berlin Wall fell, so people aged around 9 or 10 during this time went from Russian to English so all people before that learnt Russian, the others English and the Eastern states, similar to South America and, well, U.S actually, do not "teach it" very well (as a foreign language) and usually far to late in age so they grow up with a pretty bad grasp of it.

Basically, If you go over to West Germany you can walk around speaking english without any problem whiles crossing over to the East it will suddenly turn rather merky and Russian will be far more useful.


Already checked the figures earlier, there is more people speaking French worldwide including first and second compared to Russian first and second. But that wasn't the point as the poster like Russian / Eastern Europe.

 

[Magic Man]

OK mball, you dumkopf -

Thanks for that.

Look, my only point is that your stats were a little off. Is German popular? Yes. Is it that much more popular than French? Not really.

German is easy, easy, easy to learn - especially the rules of pronunctiation which are very consistent and similar to English.

One, it's no easier to learn than romance languages for English speakers. For some people it could even be harder, especially considering it uses noun declensions.

Two, the OP asks about French of Russian, not German.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Thanks for that.

Look, my only point is that your stats were a little off. Is German popular? Yes. Is it that much more popular than French? Not really.



One, it's no easier to learn than romance languages for English speakers. For some people it could even be harder, especially considering it uses noun declensions.

Two, the OP asks about French of Russian, not German.

I cant say anything myself about what is "easy" versus "hard", I speak 5 languages inc luding my native English and I consider myself pretty bad at ALL of them as I show no passion for it.

 

[Darkness]

Already checked the figures earlier, there is more people speaking French worldwide including first and second compared to Russian first and second. But that wasn't the point as the poster like Russian / Eastern Europe.

Yeah, I am not really that interested in German. I had it in high school, but I could not get into it. If I start trying to learn it again, I will probably quit trying somewhere along the line.

 

[Rio Sabinas]

My daughter is fluent in French and loves the language. She was a translator at MIT in Boston
for 2 years helping foreign students get aclimated to life in the U.S.

I think it would be a good choice as a 2nd language.

My second choice would be German, bowing to Kathryn because she's "Ben there'n done that".
My own choice would be South American Spanish as opposed to Castillian Spanish. Simply
because I prefer Que paso Vato? over Como esta usted? If you are going to deal with it on an
international level, the more proper Castillian Spanish (which I assume you studied in school)
would be better.
As long we're talking about language...I'd love to be able to speak Cajun French because I grew
up around so many Cajun people & so much of them rubbed-off on me. The only Cajun French
I can speak is Gumbo, Jumbalaya, Et-tu-fe, Whoo-boy I like dat me, I love what dem little Mud Bug!.....LOL!!

 

[Gabethewiking]

My daughter is fluent in French and loves the language. She was a translator at MIT in Boston
for 2 years helping foreign students get aclimated to life in the U.S.

I think it would be a good choice as a 2nd language.

My second choice would be German, bowing to Kathryn because she's "Ben there'n done that".
My own choice would be South American Spanish as opposed to Castillian Spanish. Simply
because I prefer Que paso Vato? over Como esta usted? If you are going to deal with it on an
international level, the more proper Castillian Spanish (which I assume you studied in school)
would be better.
As long we're talking about language...I'd love to be able to speak Cajun French because I grew
up around so many Cajun people & so much of them rubbed-off on me. The only Cajun French
I can speak is Gumbo, Jumbalaya, Et-tu-fe, Whoo-boy I like dat me, I love what dem little Mud Bug!.....LOL!!

I am in South America now and they speak Castillian Spanish not Spanish Spanish, as in Spain, but if you go to Spain or even Mexico you may get problems speaking Casteliano , either by getting thumped on the head or strange looks with a big question mark wondering what the heck you are saying

Darkness
Yeah, I am not really that interested in German. I had it in high school, but I could not get into it. If I start trying to learn it again, I will probably quit trying somewhere along the line.

I couldn't care less for languages when I was young, I joined the German class because I wanted to nail a girl in it, soon I found out I sucked at it and got displaced but as I later in life moved to Germany I finally learnt it, sorta.

I been told several times to learn French as it would be very practical for me for business issues but I never cared about it, I am working on improving my Spanish simple because half of my family speaks it and no other language

 

[monta]

I used to be fairly fluent in French but it has gotten rusty through disuse, it is one of the easiest languages for an English speaker to learn, 2 years earnest study will likely make you fluent, but like any language you need some immersion in the language to make it stick. You probably have some exposure to French already and there are many commonalities with English.

On the other hand whicle Russian is a lot more difficult to learn for English speakers, and the alphabet difference adds another level of difficulty, it will be more impressive on your résumé. It is also one of the official languages of the United Nations, and is used as a communication language in a number of eastern European countries where it is not the first language. I only have a few words and phrases of Russian, but suspect that without having at least regular access to a native Russian speaker, it will be difficult to learn. Is French one of the languages that is commonly taught in US schools? If so there will be more people with 2 or more years of French than there will be with Russian.

On the other, other hand, the 3rd language seems to be easier to learn, so if you learn French first it may be easier to learn Russian at a later date.

Russian is hard but impressive, French is easier and less impressive. Both are useful if travelling or communicating abroad but Russian is most useful in communicating to Eastern Europe.

Back to square 1 ?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I'd like to throw Swahili into the mix. Sure it's virtually a dead language, but hey - you never know when it might come in handy.

There's still around 10 million native speakers, but maybe it's time to start a resurgence?

 

[Gabethewiking]

I'd like to throw Swahili into the mix. Sure it's virtually a dead language, but hey - you never know when it might come in handy.

There's still around 10 million native speakers, but maybe it's time to start a resurgence?

You want dead? Icelandic, 300 thousand....

And I speak it

 

[monta]

You want dead? Icelandic, 300 thousand....

And I speak it

Pah! Irish between 20 and 50 thousand and I speak it, it isn't just how obscure the language is, it is it's marketablity as well

 

[Gabethewiking]

Pah! Irish between 20 and 50 thousand and I speak it, it isn't just how obscure the language is, it is it's marketablity as well

You got me, Almost, ALMOST, according to Wiki:

355,000 fluent or native speakers (1983)[1]
538,283 everyday speakers (2006)[citation needed]
1,860,000 with some knowledge (2006)[

But you almost got me there, true, a pretty dead language, and cool to boot.

 

[monta]

You got me, Almost, ALMOST, according to Wiki:

But you almost got me there, true, a pretty dead language, and cool to boot.

WIKi doesn't so much lie as it is mislead, we are officially taught Irish in school for 12 years but most people come out the other end without being able to speak more than a couple of words of the language, the state claims all these people can speak it and the country is officially bilingual. It is an official eu language now also, Go raibh maith agat Bertie

 

[Gabethewiking]

WIKi doesn't so much lie as it is mislead, we are officially taught Irish in school for 12 years but most people come out the other end without being able to speak more than a couple of words of the language, the state claims all these people can speak it and the country is officially bilingual. It is an official eu language now also, Go raibh maith agat Bertie

I have to take your word on that...

So.. does this mean you are cooler then me? Even if you are Irish? I do not think that counts because of the handicap