For Christians, how do you view Jesus?

[URAVIP2ME]

Although the name was quite a common one, ancient tradition has usually identified our Luke with the Luke whom the apostle Paul mentions twice. Paul is an important character in The Acts of the Apostles, and our writer does seem to have travelled with Paul on some of his missionary journeys."
For this reason, it can be easily assumed that Paul had every opportunity to contribute to the book, and made a point to make sure it mentioned him often and in a good light. Luke traveled with Paul and, apparently, looked up to him. So, to say that Paul didn't have input is extremely naiive. There is absolutely no reason to think that he didn't.

Thank you for your ^above ^ observation.
Sorry I was Not more clear. By Paul Not having influence was meant that ALL Scripture is from: God - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So, Paul was Not having influence over Luke to write down Paul's thoughts over God's thoughts.
Hope this is of some help.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am not sure what you are asking here? Can you please rephrase?

Why else would a person belong to a religion unless they thought it was the right one?

I remember a BIG billboard that read: Go to the church of YOUR choice.
Rather, it should have read: Go to the place of worship of GOD's choice.

 

[Deidre]

Not sure what you have in mind considering Paul wrote that in showing honor take the lead - Romans 12:10

According to the account at 1 Corinthians 15:9-11 Paul remained humble.

When the congregation was split - Acts of the Apostles 14:26 to 15:2 - over circumcision and Paul's efforts did not clear up the issue, didn't Paul humbly go along with the decision or arrangements of the older men in Jerusalem ?_______

Paul co-operated fully with those spiritually older men - Acts of the Apostles 15:22-31 - and they assigned Paul and Barnabas.

I'm not in a place certainly to 'judge' Paul, but my take on him is he would preach things that Jesus didn't expressly say to his Apostles (or to anyone). Yet Paul had visions or revelations or whatever...and now we are to believe these are from Jesus? Paul's testimony could begin and end with his spiritual transformation. And many Christians would be fine with that, tbh.

He is no different than any Christian who feels 'born again' in the way that I have experienced recently, and that is a wondrous feeling, indeed. But, Paul has a tendency to make himself stand out as special. He boasts about not boasting. He boasts about his humility. STOP TALKING PAUL for two seconds. I wonder if someone told him that, and it was 'edited' out.

 

[leibowde84]

Thank you for your ^above ^ observation.
Sorry I was Not more clear. By Paul Not having influence was meant that ALL Scripture is from: God - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So, Paul was Not having influence over Luke to write down Paul's thoughts over God's thoughts.
Hope this is of some help.

This is your belief, but you haven't supported it with anything beyond circular reasoning (scripture declaring itself valid). Many people have claimed to speak for God or be directed by God and have turned out to be frauds.

 

[leibowde84]

Why else would a person belong to a religion unless they thought it was the right one?

I remember a BIG billboard that read: Go to the church of YOUR choice.
Rather, it should have read: Go to the place of worship of GOD's choice.

The problem is that there is no way to determine conclusively which "place" that is. Unless you take the Bible word for word (which still probably wouldn't provide the answer), you have to depend on your own intellect, instinct, and limited understanding ... just like the rest of us.

 

[Clear]

I think Leibode84 makes a valid point in his post 59, that Paul certainly may have influenced writings which mention him, especially since the writers of some of biblical texts which mention Paul, are occasionally dependent upon Paul or his traveling companions for their histories when they were not, themselves witnesses. The same point is true of all historical records.

Regarding Paul and the textual descriptions of him :
It is certainly possible that the writers of these texts may have had their own, somewhat elevated opinions about Paul which affected their written descriptions of Paul. For example, Tertius, (who is the presumed writer of Romans - cf Ro 16:22) may have embellished his descriptions of Paul, just as Pauls’ detractors may have accentuated faults in their textual / historical descriptions of Paul. Certainly, because these histories are created by, collated by, edited by, then written in their various forms by people, who are imperfect (perhaps inspired , but still, they are individuals with faults), the historical texts will contain errors.

It is because of this point that I am impressed with Deidre's profound discovery and description of a personal experience and revelation which forms the initial firm foundation to an actual, personal relationship with an existing God. This doesn't negate the value of historical texts, but rather the experience bypasses historical text in it's evidential value to the human heart that a God exists and cares about a specific individual.

Clear
σιτωνεω

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm not in a place certainly to 'judge' Paul, but my take on him is he would preach things that Jesus didn't expressly say to his Apostles (or to anyone). Yet Paul had visions or revelations or whatever...and now we are to believe these are from Jesus? Paul's testimony could begin and end with his spiritual transformation. And many Christians would be fine with that, tbh.
He is no different than any Christian who feels 'born again' in the way that I have experienced recently, and that is a wondrous feeling, indeed. But, Paul has a tendency to make himself stand out as special. He boasts about not boasting. He boasts about his humility. STOP TALKING PAUL for two seconds. I wonder if someone told him that, and it was 'edited' out.

Is 1 Corinthians 9:25-27 boasting ?

Doesn't Paul give us the Bible's humble definition of love at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6 ?
While Paul lovingly warns us against the selfish distorted form of love the world in general displays at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13

True one should Not ' blow his own horn ' - Proverbs 27:2 - but was Paul boasting or trying to help us Not to fall - 1 Corinthians 10:12
Paul was teaching each of us we can run the course ( Spiritual Olympics ) to the finish - 2 Timothy 4:7-8 as Jesus said Matthew 24:13

 

[Deidre]

I've read that it's a common idea that Paul was "chosen" by Jesus. Do you believe that?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The problem is that there is no way to determine conclusively which "place" that is. Unless you take the Bible word for word (which still probably wouldn't provide the answer), you have to depend on your own intellect, instinct, and limited understanding ... just like the rest of us.

Jesus gave self-sacrificing love as the hallmark of his genuine followers - John 13:34-35

Plus, there would Not be the forsaking of meeting together of genuine followers - Hebrews 10:24-26 - especially as we see Jesus' thousand-year day drawing near.

Jesus' followers would do the same spiritual work Jesus started - Luke 4:43 - but on an international scale - Matthew 24:14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I've read that it's a common idea that Paul was "chosen" by Jesus. Do you believe that?

I believe what gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts of the Apostles 9:15

King Agrippa was so impressed with Paul - Acts of the Apostles 26:28-29 - that in time he said that Paul could persuade him to become a Christian - Acts of the Apostles 26:22-23. Paul suffered as a Christian - Acts of the Apostles 26:21 - and he was Not ashamed of that .
1 Peter 4:16

 

[leibowde84]

Jesus gave self-sacrificing love as the hallmark of his genuine followers - John 13:34-35

Plus, there would Not be the forsaking of meeting together of genuine followers - Hebrews 10:24-26 - especially as we see Jesus' thousand-year day drawing near.

Jesus' followers would do the same spiritual work Jesus started - Luke 4:43 - but on an international scale - Matthew 24:14

Jesus' thousand year day drawing near? Why would you think that?

 

[Deidre]

I believe what gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts of the Apostles 9:15

King Agrippa was so impressed with Paul - Acts of the Apostles 26:28-29 - that in time he said that Paul could persuade him to become a Christian - Acts of the Apostles 26:22-23. Paul suffered as a Christian - Acts of the Apostles 26:21 - and he was Not ashamed of that .
1 Peter 4:16

Too much emphasis on Paul, IMO. But, you're welcome to swoon over him. ^_^

 

[Jensen]

It asks here how do you view Jesus, and yet it is Paul that is being discussed, somewhat anyway. Has anyone here ever just read the words of Jesus and see what they get out of just what he said? and how it may be different from what is said by others in the bible?

 

[Deidre]

It asks here how do you view Jesus, and yet it is Paul that is being discussed, somewhat anyway. Has anyone here ever just read the words of Jesus and see what they get out of just what he said? and how it may be different from what is said by others in the bible?

And the sum total of faith (my opinion) isn't what I've read in the Bible. That is pretty much why I departed from Christianity to begin with, but many people feel that they can't have a spiritual experience in order to 'understand' Jesus. I think we can, and that is part of faith. The experience of it, not just stories we read in the Bible. Which can serve us well, but are limited because they leave out the personal experience that we can have with God.

 

[mystic64]

The only reason that I am a Christian is because of Christ Jesus. And I have experienced His presence many many times in my life. I do not get along with God so much, but Lord Jesus has always treated me with love and has never at any time ever let me down. I thank the Father every day for the awesome gift that is our beloved Lord and Savior. I do not really care so much about Heaven and I do not really care about God, unless the Father that is in Heaven, the Father of Jesus, is not the same entity as the God of Moses. I do not get along with the God of Moses, I just plain don't. I am Christian because I know Lord Jesus personally and I love Him dearly. No other reason.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Too much emphasis on Paul, IMO. But, you're welcome to swoon over him. ^_^

No, not swooning but posting Scriptures supporting Paul's role in the spreading of: Christianity.
Besides Paul: Peter, Jude, James and John wrote Bible books in the first century.
Don't Paul's writings give us the Godly definition of love at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6 ?
Some scholars have viewed Romans as a 5th gospel.
Romans is a good news letter written to Christians living in Rome.
Romans is Not a pointless letter but how we can gain the righteousness that leads to life.
Paul wanted Jewish Christians to know the Mosaic Law regulations were not needed such as circumcision.
Abraham was considered as righteous ' before ' the Law.
For Christians love fulfills the Law - Romans 13:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It asks here how do you view Jesus, and yet it is Paul that is being discussed, somewhat anyway. Has anyone here ever just read the words of Jesus and see what they get out of just what he said? and how it may be different from what is said by others in the bible?

Do you have an example for us ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus' thousand year day drawing near? Why would you think that?

Besides worsening world conditions - 2 Timothy 3:13 - of people failing to respond to the teachings of Jesus, we are at the ' final phase ', so to speak of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 because the good news of God's kingdom as the solution to mankind's problems is proclaimed on an international scale as never before in history. Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible even in remote languages so people can have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language.

Also, we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security " as precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. Starting with humble people of Matthew 25:31-32.

 

[leibowde84]

Besides worsening world conditions - 2 Timothy 3:13 - of people failing to respond to the teachings of Jesus, we are at the ' final phase ', so to speak of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 because the good news of God's kingdom as the solution to mankind's problems is proclaimed on an international scale as never before in history. Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible even in remote languages so people can have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language.

Also, we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security " as precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. Starting with humble people of Matthew 25:31-32.

Couldn't all this be said for any moment in modern history though? Think about WW2?

Seems pretty arbitrary and vague, don't you think?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Couldn't all this be said for any moment in modern history though? Think about WW2?

We can even go back further to WW 1. The world itself thinks of that great war as world war 1. ( Global war - Matthew 24:6-8 )
So, yes we can consider the ' world wars ' as modern history and it has taken since those days to saturate the earth, so to speak, with the good news of Matthew 24:14 before we see the end come of all badness on earth. Up to now remote areas of earth were difficult to reach and have Scripture available to people could read Scripture in their own language. - Acts of the Apostles 1:8 is fulfilled.

P.S. also please consider Luke 21:11 because Luke does Not just say earthquakes but uses the adjective ' great ' in describing them. We have more ' great ' earthquakes than ever before in history ( including tsunami's )