Flying chariots during the Take of Jerusalem?

[Estro Felino]

Here are two extracts from the books of two great historians: Tacitus, the greatest historian of Ancient Rome and Josephus Flavius, one of the most important historians of Ancient Jewish History.
They both describe a very strange episode before the Take of Jerusalem in AD 70.
Armies and weird iron chariots flying all over Jerusalem.

Tacitus, Historiae, Book 5 , par. 13

Prodigies took place. Prodigies that the people, used to superstition don't have the power to avert, neither with vows nor with sacrifices, being opposed to religious practices.
Arrays were seen fight each other throughout the sky ...and shining weapons and a sudden fire from the clouds, illuminating the Temple. The doors of the shrine were opened all of a sudden and a superhuman voice was heard saying that the gods were departing; and then a big noise of people leaving.

Josephus Flavius, Bellum Iudaicum, VI Book

After few days of those holidays, in the 21st day of May a vision appeared that can surpass any credibility. What I am going to say might sound like a fable to you, perhaps, if it weren't for the fact that witnesses did see that, and that disgraces followed after these bad omens.
At sunset, flying iron chariots were seen throughout the sky in every region and armed arrays going out of the clouds, surrounding the city.
In that holiday that they call Pentecost, the priests entered the internal part of the Temple by night, as custom, to celebrate the divine rites. At first they heard a big noise and a quake, then they heard a sudden voice that said " We are departing from here".

 

[MNoBody]

lots of those anomalies crop up in history
william bramley wrote a book on those that is actually objective [opposed to the other style] quite an interesting read [title:gods of eden]

 

[Wandering Monk]

Here are two extracts from the books of two great historians: Tacitus, the greatest historian of Ancient Rome and Josephus Flavius, one of the most important historians of Ancient Jewish History.
They both describe a very strange episode before the Take of Jerusalem in AD 70.
Armies and weird iron chariots flying all over Jerusalem.

Tacitus, Historiae, Book 5 , par. 13

View attachment 43631
Prodigies took place. Prodigies that the people, used to superstition don't have the power to avert, neither with vows nor with sacrifices, being opposed to religious practices.
Arrays were seen fight each other throughout the sky ...and shining weapons and a sudden fire from the clouds, illuminating the Temple. The doors of the shrine were opened all of a sudden and a superhuman voice was heard saying that the gods were departing; and then a big noise of people leaving.

Josephus Flavius, Bellum Iudaicum, VI Book


View attachment 43632



After few days of those holidays, in the 21st day of May a vision appeared that can surpass any credibility. What I am going to say might sound like a fable to you, perhaps, if it weren't for the fact that witnesses did see that, and that disgraces followed after these bad omens.
At sunset, flying iron chariots were seen throughout the sky in every region and armed arrays going out of the clouds, surrounding the city.
In that holiday that they call Pentecost, the priests entered the internal part of the Temple by night, as custom, to celebrate the divine rites. At first they heard a big noise and a quake, then they heard a sudden voice that said " We are departing from here".

Um, how would he know they were iron if they were flying? (An aside:iron doesn't fly too well.)
He also said 'chariots' not spaceships or aircraft.
This whole episode makes me wonder if he might have just stolen the imagery from the stories about Elijah or the chariot visions of Isaiah.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Um, how would he know they were iron if they were flying? (An aside:iron doesn't fly too well.)

No doubt. Not a very good metal for flight.

 

[Astrophile]

No doubt. Not a very good metal for flight.

Perhaps that is why there are so many iron meteorites.

 

[MNoBody]

people back then did not have modern dictionaries to use so they would describe things in terms they were familiar with, most likely, that's kind of obvious....iron is common enough to them what do they know of alloys?
a bic lighter would be witchcraft back in the day, a aircraft spawned the cargo cult phenomenon....same thing....

 

[Twilight Hue]

Um, how would he know they were iron if they were flying? (An aside:iron doesn't fly too well.)
He also said 'chariots' not spaceships or aircraft.
This whole episode makes me wonder if he might have just stolen the imagery from the stories about Elijah or the chariot visions of Isaiah.

I would say Ezekiel more than anywhere else.

 

[Astrophile]

Here are two extracts from the books of two great historians: Tacitus, the greatest historian of Ancient Rome and Josephus Flavius, one of the most important historians of Ancient Jewish History.
They both describe a very strange episode before the Take of Jerusalem in AD 70.
Armies and weird iron chariots flying all over Jerusalem.

Tacitus, Historiae, Book 5 , par. 13

View attachment 43631
Prodigies took place. Prodigies that the people, used to superstition don't have the power to avert, neither with vows nor with sacrifices, being opposed to religious practices.
Arrays were seen fight each other throughout the sky ...and shining weapons and a sudden fire from the clouds, illuminating the Temple. The doors of the shrine were opened all of a sudden and a superhuman voice was heard saying that the gods were departing; and then a big noise of people leaving.

Josephus Flavius, Bellum Iudaicum, VI Book


View attachment 43632



After few days of those holidays, in the 21st day of May a vision appeared that can surpass any credibility. What I am going to say might sound like a fable to you, perhaps, if it weren't for the fact that witnesses did see that, and that disgraces followed after these bad omens.
At sunset, flying iron chariots were seen throughout the sky in every region and armed arrays going out of the clouds, surrounding the city.
In that holiday that they call Pentecost, the priests entered the internal part of the Temple by night, as custom, to celebrate the divine rites. At first they heard a big noise and a quake, then they heard a sudden voice that said " We are departing from here".

First, although this strange episode is described in the last book of the Jewish War or Bellum Judaicum, it appears from the text that Josephus is describing an event that happened 'before the revolt and the movement to war', and therefore probably in May or June 66 AD.

Second, from the descriptions in Josephus and Tacitus, I would tentatively identify the event as a display of crepuscular rays. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Weather by Storm Dunlop (Oxford University Press, 2001), these are 'alternating dark and light rays that, because of perspective, appear to diverge from the Sun's position, and arise when clouds ... cast shadows onto the atmosphere.' The description of the phenomenon as appearing 'at sunset' and of 'armed arrays going out of the clouds' is consistent with this identification. The witnesses probably saw these days of light and darkness in hindsight as 'flying chariots' and 'armed arrays' because of the outbreak of the war shortly afterwards, not because they actually resembled chariots or armies.

 

[Estro Felino]

First, although this strange episode is described in the last book of the Jewish War or Bellum Judaicum, it appears from the test that Josephus is describing an event that happened 'before the revolt and the movement to war', and therefore probably in May or June 66 AD.

Second, from the descriptions in Josephus and Tacitus, I would tentatively identify the event as a display of crepuscular rays. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Weather by Storm Dunlop (Oxford University Press, 2001), these are 'alternating dark and light rays that, because of perspective, appear to diverge from the Sun's position, and arise when clouds ... cast shadows onto the atmosphere.' The description of the phenomenon as appearing 'at sunset' and of 'armed arrays going out of the clouds' is consistent with this identification. The witnesses probably saw these days of light and darkness in hindsight as 'flying chariots' and 'armed arrays' because of the outbreak of the war shortly afterwards, not because they actually resembled chariots or armies.

Very interesting. But this does not explain why Tacitus said "et audita major humana vox excedere deos" which absolutely means " a superhuman voice was heard (saying) that the gods were leaving (going out)."

I wonder who these gods were.

 

[Astrophile]

Very interesting. But this does not explain why Tacitus said "et audita major humana vox excedere deos" which absolutely means " a superhuman voice was heard (saying) that the gods were leaving (going out)."

I wonder who these gods were.

Joesphus seems to be saying that the appearance of chariots and armies in the sky was a separate event from the quaking and noise and the supernatural voice in the Temple. He says that the aerial phenomena occurred on 21st Artemisios and the 'superhuman voice in the Temple' was heard at the Feast of Pentecost. The two events were probably separate and had different causes.

I think that Josephus's version is more reliable, since he says that he is reporting the accounts of eye-witnesses. Tacitus (ca. 56-ca. 120) was writing about 40 years after the events, and cannot have been an eye-witness.

 

[Estro Felino]

Joesphus seems to be saying that the appearance of chariots and armies in the sky was a separate event from the quaking and noise and the supernatural voice in the Temple. He says that the aerial phenomena occurred on 21st Artemisios and the 'superhuman voice in the Temple' was heard at the Feast of Pentecost. The two events were probably separate and had different causes.

I think that Josephus's version is more reliable, since he says that he is reporting the accounts of eye-witnesses. Tacitus (ca. 56-ca. 120) was writing about 40 years after the events, and cannot have been an eye-witness.

Okay...but Josephus underlines it was an incredible event. Not certainly twilight rays.

 

[Harel13]

I wonder who these gods were.

Parallels can be found in religious Jewish texts describing the destruction of the Temple. I don't know about Tacitus, but personally, if Josephus really heard a voice, then I would think that It said that God was leaving, but as Josephus was an official Roman historian, he would have had to censor that and change it to "gods" to line up with the Roman polytheistic religion.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Strange Ships, Superior Mirages

 

[Estro Felino]

Parallels can be found in religious Jewish texts describing the destruction of the Temple. I don't know about Tacitus, but personally, if Josephus really heard a voice, then I would think that It said that God was leaving, but as Josephus was an official Roman historian, he would have had to censor that and change it to "gods" to line up with the Roman polytheistic religion.

I do agree Josephus thought of this.

 

[Goddess Kit]

When people celebrate they get drunk. Probably no more that, drunken accounts at best.

 

[Harel13]

When people celebrate they get drunk. Probably no more that, drunken accounts at best.

Somehow I doubt Josephus would have been happy about the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem and the subsequent exiling of thousands of Jews. But that might work for Tacitus.