Five Reasons to Believe in God

[McBell]

1. It is highly unlikely that the material world we have access to through our senses is all that there is.

Ah, like bacteria?

2. There is something, rather than nothing.

Besides being a statement from Captain Obvious, how does this help?
It is like saying that men are men rather than not men.

3. Higher reasoning, abstract thinking (including logic), and philosphy are not rational without an objective basis outside of our sensory world.

This is demonstratively not true.

4. Ethics (responsibility to others) are an illusion without an objective basis of right and wrong.

5. Values/virtues (personal integrity) are an illusion without an objective basis for good.

Yes, they are illusions.
What is your point?

 

[Tathagata]

"3. Higher reasoning, abstract thinking (including logic), and philosphy are not rational without an objective basis outside of our sensory world."

This is demonstratively not true.

Really? Then please demonstrate it.

.

 

[lunamoth]

Lunamoth
You never answered my question on what you define as God?

Hi Vendetta,
Sorry - I did not mean to ignore you. My definition of God is not important for this thread. But, feel free to supply your own! Thanks!

 

[lunamoth]

Obviously I would be unable to establish satisfactory by my own violition that a completely naturalistic universe is true in its entirety. That being said however, it must be noted that directly there is nothing by way of establishment that suggests anything other than that of a naturalistic universe at the moment. In other words, I see no notable evidence or indicators of God, yet abounding evidence confirms a naturalistic universe as it stands at present of which is easily observed and experienced.

Oh, I agree the natural universe exists. I'm not a solipsist. However, the question is how do you know that the natural universe is all that exists? How do we know that our reason, which evolved from non-rational ancestors at some point in time, is rational? How do we distinguish rational thought from non-rational responses?

 

[lunamoth]

I'm not real sure why those things are not rational with an objective basis. Just not practical when it is outside "the sensory world".

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here?

 

[lunamoth]

Ah, like bacteria?

No. :tuna:

Besides being a statement from Captain Obvious, how does this help?
It is like saying that men are men rather than not men.

No, it is a rather different statement than saying that men are men and not not-men.

This is demonstratively not true.

How did our capacity for inferences that are true arise via evolution (this is not a trick question!)?

 

[lunamoth]

I really should have titled my thread Five Reasons Belief in God is Reasonable, but that would have ruined the symmetry with Cop's thread.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Five Reasons to Believe in God

1. It is highly unlikely that the material world we have access to through our senses is all that there is.

2. There is something, rather than nothing.

But how do either of these point toward God?

3. Higher reasoning, abstract thinking (including logic), and philosphy are not rational without an objective basis outside of our sensory world.

4. Ethics (responsibility to others) are an illusion without an objective basis of right and wrong.

5. Values/virtues (personal integrity) are an illusion without an objective basis for good.

I don't see how God could validly serve as the basis for any of these things.

 

[Gloone]

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here?

Well, what do you mean by an objective basis being outside of the sensory world first of all.

 

[Vendetta]

Hi Vendetta,
Sorry - I did not mean to ignore you. My definition of God is not important for this thread. But, feel free to supply your own! Thanks!

Well describing at least briefly on what god you're referring to is helpful since there is no universal consensus on who God is except using Abrahamic traditional idea of God.

 

[Gloone]

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here?

I have also laid this out all nice for you too.

Say reasoning is on one side of the wall and is labeled as “a”. The objective basis is on the outside of the wall and is labeled as “b”.
“a” || “b”

You know what an objective basis because you already know what is on the other side of the wall. But it doesn’t matter, because you have already formulated an opinion that it is outside our sensory world.
The reason “b” isn’t rational is because you don’t know what is on the other side of the wall. So when you look over it all you see is a “p”
“a” || “p”

If you knew “b” was on the other side of the wall it would be practical. But since you don’t know what is on the other side of the wall and haven’t looked. All you see is..
“a” || “a”.

But if you were given a clue beforehand that something is actually on the other side of the wall it doesn’t matter what is on the side.
“a” || *

Because you already know and you can make it whatever you want.
So it might not be practical. But may be possible.

It is kind of like saying the moon is red.

But no one really knows why the moon is red, it just is.

It could mean a lot of things outside of the sensory world or it could mean absolutely nothing at all, but science may have an explanation for it that is unrelated.
So any information in this world is unrelated to that outside of the sensory world. So how do you base reason, logic and other things around something that you are unaware of unless you know that things outside of the sensory world exist.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Five Reasons to Believe in God

1. It is highly unlikely that the material world we have access to through our senses is all that there is.

2. There is something, rather than nothing.

3. Higher reasoning, abstract thinking (including logic), and philosphy are not rational without an objective basis outside of our sensory world.

4. Ethics (responsibility to others) are an illusion without an objective basis of right and wrong.

5. Values/virtues (personal integrity) are an illusion without an objective basis for good.

6. The many things science cannot explain period, even with a theoretical basis. Such as how life even came about.

 

[Manahel.Fatima]

I believe in GOD just because i see my self in mirror with my two eyes,i hear the world wit my two ears, i can share my words with my mouth, i can touch the softness and sharpness of neil with my hand. when ever i wish to go out i can use my Foots and legs now do you think this all can be made by some one very easily they need brain for this and brain is just created by some supernatural power and that power is called GOD.

 

[PhAA]

6. The many things science cannot explain period, even with a theoretical basis. Such as how life even came about.

Things that can't be explained now doesn't mean it can never be explained. That's why there are scientists and researchers, to know the unknown. I think it's better to search than readily accept any religion.

 

[Looncall]

Oh, I agree the natural universe exists. I'm not a solipsist. However, the question is how do you know that the natural universe is all that exists? How do we know that our reason, which evolved from non-rational ancestors at some point in time, is rational? How do we distinguish rational thought from non-rational responses?

The answer to all this is quite simple: check it out, do the research, get out of your armchair and look about you.

If there is no evidence that something is the case, one is not justified in holding that it is the case. So much for the non-natural.

For the second, just study some psychology.

You can't sneak gods into the universe merely by being puzzled about a few things.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

WL Craig wins most of the technical points in his debates hands down. Does that mean he is right about God?

Awww, is that right? Then the poor shmuck is debating with people of IQ lesser than himself.

Lol! OK, so what is 'reality?' How do you know?

Then how do you know your god is real? Maybe he is just imaginary,

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

You can't sneak gods into the universe merely by being puzzled about a few things.

Frubals! Excellent point.

 

[Luminous]

Five Reasons to Believe in God

1. It is highly unlikely that the material world we have access to through our senses is all that there is.

2. There is something, rather than nothing.

3. Higher reasoning, abstract thinking (including logic), and philosphy are not rational without an objective basis outside of our sensory world.

4. Ethics (responsibility to others) are an illusion without an objective basis of right and wrong.

5. Values/virtues (personal integrity) are an illusion without an objective basis for good.

Discuss. :seesaw:

Though I am ignostic as to your point...I agree with [my semantic interpretation of] all the premises, and though you think your conclusion should be obvious without jotting it in the end, I think it is a big jump: perhaps right off that tetter-totter.

 

[Luminous]

I believe in GOD just because i see my self in mirror with my two eyes,i hear the world wit my two ears, i can share my words with my mouth, i can touch the softness and sharpness of neil with my hand. when ever i wish to go out i can use my Foots and legs now do you think this all can be made by some one very easily they need brain for this and brain is just created by some supernatural power and that power is called GOD.

Being as I can do everything you do...I still don't agree. If you define God as "that thing which explains everything else" then other jumps from there would be extreme, in that they would not really flow from that premise.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I believe in GOD just because i see my self in mirror with my two eyes,i hear the world wit my two ears, i can share my words with my mouth, i can touch the softness and sharpness of neil with my hand. when ever i wish to go out i can use my Foots and legs now do you think this all can be made by some one very easily they need brain for this and brain is just created by some supernatural power and that power is called GOD.

what about handicapped people? Some people are born blind, others are born without an adequately functioning brain and others yet are born paralyzed. Was god having an off day? Was he drunk that day? This is just a silly argument.