Features of Totalitarianism Poll

[Laika]

"Totalitarianism" is a scare word and is something we have strong negative associations with governments such as the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany.

Whilst we tend to think of it as a "system", it can also be broken down into individual policies and components. It is more than possible to support individual policies of a totalitarian system without supporting that system as a whole. This creates a certian "paradox" in which individuals can support or sympathise with such a system in part but not absolutely, uncritically or completely. To be honest, thats alot to ask for of any system and its unlikely that anyone in totalitarian states support everything their government does.

The poll is deliberately broad and is intended to see if people support individual policies that can exist within totalitarian systems, even if they do not support the system as a whole. Some people may be able to argue for the necessity of one policy or another, or argue a case for then to a lesser degree than in a totalitarian state, perhaps giving a much better picture of what it means to truly support or oppose such a system and go beyond simple characterisations of "good" versus "evil".

Any thoughts? Or thought crimes?

 

[Laika]

Voted 1,2,3,6 and 8.

 

[Revoltingest]

I voted for <imprisonment with hard labor> just so I could vote for something.
But I'd like the hard labor to be rehabilitative.
Anyone who votes for one of the other choices should be subject to it.
I call it "Reveducation".

 

[icehorse]

I wanted to vote for nothing. I think that *some* of the ideas are actually okay, but the wording was a bit off putting. For example "government controlled education". I'm in favor of well funded public schools, and these schools must - to some degree - conform to approved curriculums, and achieve certain results. Is that the same as "government controlled" ? I don't know. It seems that in these cases the devil is in the details...

 

[Rival]

Voted for 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I didn't vote for 3 because I thought that comes under number 7 in a general way.

 

[Laika]

I wanted to vote for nothing. I think that *some* of the ideas are actually okay, but the wording was a bit off putting. For example "government controlled education". I'm in favor of well funded public schools, and these schools must - to some degree - conform to approved curriculums, and achieve certain results. Is that the same as "government controlled" ? I don't know. It seems that in these cases the devil is in the details...

Thanks. I think your reply made my day. Thats sort of what I hoping to achieve and throwing the debate wide open by going beyond the labels at what it all actually means. The ideas themselves may be reasonable on their own, but what they add up to or when they are taken to an extreme may not be.

I mean, the government giving children a free public education sounds great. Who could object to kids getting the tools to make the best out of life? But if you start calling it "government telling your children what to think", it sounds much more suspect and sinister. And the language and the labels we use show how open to manipulation we are as people. If the government calls it the "right" thing and makes us feel good about it could we actually find ourselves supporting really bad stuff? Thats the puzzle.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I voted 2, 8 and 9.

Government-controlled education I took to mean national curriculums and such. Centralised control and planning of the economy... I mean, isn't that done already through quantitative easing, setting interest rates, and there is clearly planning done for the future of the economy etc. And imprisonment with hard labour I was less sure about, though I did vote for it, if there was empirical evidence that showed it worked then I have no problems with it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most I voted for are in various degrees. Like suppression of extremists. We don't need to let loose the exterminators and be so severe the rights of people not affiliated are violated, but at the same time such groups shouldn't be promoting their ways of violence and hatred. Political standards for regulating science, more to keep away external non-science factors--such as religion--from tainting and distorting science (probably wouldn't even be an immediate concern or consideration if I didn't live in a very Conservative area of America). Organized religion to keep certain dangerous practices out, such as not taking your kids to a doctor, and to end violations such as non-voluntary infantile circumcision (if someone is of age and consents, no problem, but no body modification should ever be performed on the non-consenting or children, not unless health mandates it).

 

[crossfire]

I can't vote for any of them. There isn't a "none of the above" option.

 

[sun rise]

...
Anyone who votes for one of the other choices should be subject to it.

Karma or if you prefer "what ye sow, so shall ye reap" or "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" if you prefer the law of karma stated in terms of physics.

 

[Revoltingest]

Karma or if you prefer "what ye sow, so shall ye reap" or "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" if you prefer the law of karma stated in terms of physics.

I already know I deserve hard labor.

 

[Stalwart]

Voted for all options. "All of the above."

Granted that the party/state government is clericalist in nature, of course.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Voted for:

Political standards for regulating organised religion
A Government Controlled Education system
Compulsory military service/Conscription

 

[Father Heathen]

I could only vote for government controlled education system, since there really needs to be standards in place.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Planned economy, education already is for the most part. I am on the edge about conscription.

I see that as very circumstantial. Ideally, every able-bodied citizen of sound mind would be trained to fight and to defend themselves, their neighbors, and their communities. A more traditional army, however, I do consider a society to not need mandatory conscription to have a great luxury that many state cannot afford.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I voted for <imprisonment with hard labor> just so I could vote for something.
But I'd like the hard labor to be rehabilitative.
Anyone who votes for one of the other choices should be subject to it.
I call it "Reveducation".

I avoided that one precisely because it didn't seem rehabilitive.
But I voted for government controlled schooling. I participated in that as a student AND teacher.
So I've lived up to your demand. To show solidarity, you really should get yourself locked up for a while. Them rocks, they needs a breakin'.

 

[Revoltingest]

I avoided that one precisely because it didn't seem rehabilitive.
But I voted for government controlled schooling. I participated in that as a student AND teacher.
So I've lived up to your demand. To show solidarity, you really should get yourself locked up for a while. Them rocks, they needs a breakin'.

Oh, I know sledge hammers.
I've broken many a concrete slab.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Oh, I know sledge hammers.
I've broken many a concrete slab.

That sounded weirdly pornographic to me. I've heard stories about engineers and their tools...

 

[Revoltingest]

That sounded weirdly pornographic to me. I've heard stories about engineers and their tools...

I have good sledgehammer technique.....about 450 degrees of swing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have good sledgehammer technique.....about 450 degrees of swing.

Hmm...you clearly need a catchy nickname then. Probably something involving the word 'pound'.

This is fast becoming the weirdest conversation I've had on RF. Which is really saying something!