FBI Says Covid-19 Most Likely A Leak From Lab

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder, if I had chicken pox AND shingles, am I immune? I am asking because the shingles vaccine is potentially very problematic and I don't want more drama in my life.

Oh, I see it's possible but unlikely to get shingles more than once. Also, the Shingrix and other shingles shots can offer immunity for up to five years - then they have to be given again. They are not as effective on people who are over aged 70.

Oh, the shingles vaccine is supposed to offer a 90 percent chance that you won't have shingles! Supposedly that was the same with the COVID vaccine. I and everyone I know who has gotten COVID must all be extremely unlucky and rare.

I may have underestimated your age. If you are getting up there in years, like I am then I would recommend trying to keep up to date. Having the disease is always worse than the vaccine. And if you have had shingles you probably do not need a vaccine. I need to get a shingles vaccine soon. Shingles is the same virus as the one that gave us chickenpox as kids. It is another good reason to get children vaccinated. They cannot get shingles if they never had chickenpox. Though we had it the body does not kill all of it.

The good news is that like chickenpox, the shingles also appears to be a one time event:

Cause and Transmission | CDC

The virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Kathryn]

I may have underestimated your age. If you are getting up there in years, like I am then I would recommend trying to keep up to date. Having the disease is always worse than the vaccine. And if you have had shingles you probably do not need a vaccine. I need to get a shingles vaccine soon. Shingles is the same virus as the one that gave us chickenpox as kids. It is another good reason to get children vaccinated. They cannot get shingles if they never had chickenpox. Though we had it the body does not kill all of it.

The good news is that like chickenpox, the shingles also appears to be a one time event:

Cause and Transmission | CDC

The virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters.

www.cdc.gov

I am 61.

Anyway, from what I read from the CDC, shingles is not necessarily a one time event, and the vaccine only gives some protection for 5 years or so, and less protection to those over 70 than those under 70. Also, less protection for those with compromised immune systems.

Cause and Transmission | CDC

The virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters.

www.cdc.gov

Just realized that this is the same link that YOU gave ME. Funny how two people can see something completely different from the same source!

Listen, the flu shots work GREAT for me. As I've stated already, I have never had any sort of negative reaction to a vaccine or shot - ever. I was not expecting a negative reaction to the booster, not one worth mentioning. I had already had a low grade fever and lack of energy for a few hours about 12 hours after the second shot but I didn't even count that as a negative reaction. I counted it as an immune system reaction and was actually sort of glad it happened to me. I knew the shots were not fully researched but that there was a ton of research already and I felt comfortable enough about it. It was absolutely shocking to me to experience such a severe headache, and for FOUR SOLID DAYS. Go to sleep with a headache, wake up with a headache, toss and turn through the night, waking up several times with a pounding head. Move my head, it pounded, day in and day out for four days. Like I said, it was worse than having COVID! And it was worse than my friends who had had COVID before the shots were available - they hardly had any symptoms.

Anyway, back to the flu shots - I get one every year. But if I got a pounding headache for four days after a shot, I doubt I'd get it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am 61.

Anyway, from what I read from the CDC, shingles is not necessarily a one time event, and the vaccine only gives some protection for 5 years or so, and less protection to those over 70 than those under 70. Also, less protection for those with compromised immune systems.

Cause and Transmission | CDC

The virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters.

www.cdc.gov

Just realized that this is the same link that YOU gave ME. Funny how two people can see something completely different from the same source!

Listen, the flu shots work GREAT for me. As I've stated already, I have never had any sort of negative reaction to a vaccine or shot - ever. I was not expecting a negative reaction to the booster, not one worth mentioning. I had already had a low grade fever and lack of energy for a few hours about 12 hours after the second shot but I didn't even count that as a negative reaction. I counted it as an immune system reaction and was actually sort of glad it happened to me. I knew the shots were not fully researched but that there was a ton of research already and I felt comfortable enough about it. It was absolutely shocking to me to experience such a severe headache, and for FOUR SOLID DAYS. Go to sleep with a headache, wake up with a headache, toss and turn through the night, waking up several times with a pounding head. Move my head, it pounded, day in and day out for four days. Like I said, it was worse than having COVID! And it was worse than my friends who had had COVID before the shots were available - they hardly had any symptoms.

Anyway, back to the flu shots - I get one every year. But if I got a pounding headache for four days after a shot, I doubt I'd get it.

Yes, vaccines can only boost our immune systems as we get older we will be more and more susceptible to diseases. That is bad news about it being only good for five years.

What makes you think that the vaccines were not "fully researched"? Where did you get that idea from? I do not think that you will find a valid source that supports you on that.

And you should have gone to the doctor for your headache. It may have been the vaccine, it may have been something else. You really cannot know.

 

[Kathryn]

So we added another 7 million+ to that due to some people's ignorance and inability do something as simple as mask and stay home?


What's your point?

Also, your husband dying due to CVD (cardiovascular disease) means nothing in relation to the COVID pandemic, it's non sequitur, but I am sorry for your loss, it is a shame.

My wife got COVID, was hospitalized for 4 weeks, nearly died. And due to lingering physical affects hasn't been able to hold a job since 2020.

Edited: Just because everyone dies, doesn't give me or anyone else the right to be ignorant and hasten that along, because I think social/community supportive rules don't apply to me.

Sigh. I wore a mask. I wore one so much that my chin broke out. I also washed my hands so much that they are STILL dry! (Still washing them like a raccoon, constantly.)

I stayed home for months. My hair looked ridiculous, that's how long I stayed home and isolated myself. I got up and walked out of church one time during social distancing because people around me were coughing and not only did I not want to get COVID, I didn't want to spread it.

Thanks for the condolences regarding my husband by the way - I only brought it up because I wanted people to know that I am not lackadaisical about death. And yes, it was a shame.

I'm sorry your wife was hospitalized with COVID as well. I know only one person who was hospitalized and she had serious pre existing conditions. I don't know your wife's situation but I'm sorry it happened to her regardless.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, vaccines can only boost our immune systems as we get older we will be more and more susceptible to diseases. That is bad news about it being only good for five years.

What makes you think that the vaccines were not "fully researched"? Where did you get that idea from? I do not think that you will find a valid source that supports you on that.

And you should have gone to the doctor for your headache. It may have been the vaccine, it may have been something else. You really cannot know.

I had no fever and no other symptoms so I didn't go to the doctor. I'm not one to run to the doctor, though i will go if I have significant symptoms. If I had gone to the doctor and said "I have a headache," they would have said "Any other symptoms?" I would have said, "No," and they would have said "You just had a booster shot and one of the side effects listed is a possible headache." I didn't have thousands of dollars to spend on other testing. I don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid and my deductible is horrific.

Kind of like when I was taking the Paxlovid and had terrible symptoms - I was definitely going to get dehydrated, I'll just say that and no more. I stopped taking it after two doses and the symptoms, which were the same as COVID by the way, stopped almost immediately - within a few hours. So no thanks. And if I'd gone back to my doctor and said I was having symptoms, she'd say "Well, you have COVID and you're taking Paxlovid so that's no surprise." She may have ordered tests I'd have had to pay for, I don't know, but I just stopped the medication and two days later my fever lifted and I started testing negative for COVID.

Anyway, sources that vaccines in 2021 were not fully researched:

FDA oversight of clinical trials is “grossly inadequate,” say experts

Covid-19 vaccines and drugs were developed at “warp speed” and now experts are concerned that the US Food and Drug Administration inspected too few clinical trial sites. Maryanne Demasi reports On 25 September 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) received a complaint by Brook Jackson...

www.bmj.com

Pfizer seeks authorization for updated Covid vaccine, without fresh clinical trial data

Pfizer and BioNTech said that they have asked the FDA to authorize a new booster shot targeted at the Omicron BA.4/BA.5 strain of the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.

www.statnews.com

Covid-19: Researchers face wait for patient level data from Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials

Independent researchers looking to obtain patient level data from the Pfizer and Moderna covid-19 vaccine trials may have to wait longer. In status reports filed recently with the US federal trials registry (clinicaltrials.gov) between February and May, both companies extended the dates by which...

www.bmj.com

 

[The Hammer]

Sigh. I wore a mask. I wore one so much that my chin broke out. I also washed my hands so much that they are STILL dry! (Still washing them.)

Sigh. I didn't say that you didn't wear one, only that it was a major point of contention for people.

But one personal anecdote about being affected by n unfortunate death, doesn't make one sympathetic to the death of others. Only the deaths that have affected them personally. Which... Well. That's unfortunately the human condition.

 

[Kathryn]

Sigh. I didn't say that you didn't wear one, only that it was a major point of contention for people.

But one personal anecdote about being affected by n unfortunate death, doesn't make one sympathetic to the death of others. Only the deaths that have affected them personally. Which... Well. That's unfortunately the human condition.

Experiencing a death can make one more sympathetic to those who go through something similar. I've lost my dad, my mom, my younger brother and my husband, and I was a caregiver for my parents. Oh, and my mom had dementia and my younger brother had pancreatic cancer. I'm sympathetic. believe me. But we do all die. That's another sad truth.

 

[The Hammer]

Experiencing a death can make one more sympathetic to those who go through something similar. I've lost my dad, my mom, my younger brother and my husband, and I was a caregiver for my parents. Oh, and my mom had dementia and my younger brother had pancreatic cancer. I'm sympathetic. believe me. But we do all die. That's another sad truth.

Like I said.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I had no fever and no other symptoms so I didn't go to the doctor. I'm not one to run to the doctor, though i will go if I have significant symptoms. If I had gone to the doctor and said "I have a headache," they would have said "Any other symptoms?" I would have said, "No," and they would have said "You just had a booster shot and one of the side effects listed is a possible headache." I didn't have thousands of dollars to spend on other testing. I don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid and my deductible is horrific.

Kind of like when I was taking the Paxlovid and had terrible symptoms - I was definitely going to get dehydrated, I'll just say that and no more. I stopped taking it after two doses and the symptoms, which were the same as COVID by the way, stopped almost immediately - within a few hours. So no thanks. And if I'd gone back to my doctor and said I was having symptoms, she'd say "Well, you have COVID and you're taking Paxlovid so that's no surprise." She may have ordered tests I'd have had to pay for, I don't know, but I just stopped the medication and two days later my fever lifted and I started testing negative for COVID.

Anyway, sources that vaccines in 2021 were not fully researched:

FDA oversight of clinical trials is “grossly inadequate,” say experts

Covid-19 vaccines and drugs were developed at “warp speed” and now experts are concerned that the US Food and Drug Administration inspected too few clinical trial sites. Maryanne Demasi reports On 25 September 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) received a complaint by Brook Jackson...

www.bmj.com

Pfizer seeks authorization for updated Covid vaccine, without fresh clinical trial data

Pfizer and BioNTech said that they have asked the FDA to authorize a new booster shot targeted at the Omicron BA.4/BA.5 strain of the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.

www.statnews.com

Covid-19: Researchers face wait for patient level data from Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials

Independent researchers looking to obtain patient level data from the Pfizer and Moderna covid-19 vaccine trials may have to wait longer. In status reports filed recently with the US federal trials registry (clinicaltrials.gov) between February and May, both companies extended the dates by which...

www.bmj.com

Interesting, and from what appears to be a valid source. Though testing was not done solely in the US. The complaints appear to be about the tests done in Texas. Hey, you are from Texas!! Okay, I better keep serious. The phase 1 and 2 tests were done in the US and Germany and I do believe the phase 3 tests were even more widespread:

Inside the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial: ‘We knew the world was watching and waiting for results’

The 2020 Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial recruited more than 44,000 participants and reached submission for emergency authorization in 248 days: showing unprecedented speed and agility in the context of a global pandemic. So what have been the learnings from the trial – and how could they...

www.biopharma-reporter.com

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There you go again, but I digress.

They are still controversial. They always have been.

Controversial like evolution.

 

[Kathryn]

Interesting, and from what appears to be a valid source. Though testing was not done solely in the US. The complaints appear to be about the tests done in Texas. Hey, you are from Texas!! Okay, I better keep serious. The phase 1 and 2 tests were done in the US and Germany and I do believe the phase 3 tests were even more widespread:

Inside the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial: ‘We knew the world was watching and waiting for results’

The 2020 Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial recruited more than 44,000 participants and reached submission for emergency authorization in 248 days: showing unprecedented speed and agility in the context of a global pandemic. So what have been the learnings from the trial – and how could they...

www.biopharma-reporter.com

I'm not FROM Texas. I live here now. I'm a former military brat and wife and I've lived all over the world. Originally from New Orleans. Just to clarify.

Also, my research was from 2021 which is when I got the shots. I believe now that at least the original Pfizer shot has been fully vetted by the FDA. Which is really the source I use since I live in the US now. And the Pfizer booster, which I got in late 2021, was the one I had such a negative response to. The boosters are subject to the same trials as the original shots.

Your source says that 2 of the 3 trials have been completed and that boosters for variants were subject to the same process. It says that the shots were authorized for emergency use only and that applies to boosters as well. So no, I don't believe that these shots were given to thousands and thousands of people worldwide only after being totally researched.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I hear you but I'm just not so sure it applies. I'm not an absolutist. I'm all for public safety and believe in vaccines.

Where was absolutism applied? Basically in the name of safety, close businesses unless they determined that yours was an exception. Like gambling in Nevada is a necessity but churches aren't.

When wearing "masks" was "have a cloth over your mouth" and was deemed acceptable... I have a problem with that. When the danger was those with compromised constitutions or if you were elderly but all of society must be shut down, I call that absolutism.

When we realized that it wasn't "right wing disinformation" but rather the shutting down of dialogue and now realizing that it was left wing stopping of information.

It really had the face of fascism.

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls and violent suppression of the opposition.

Especially when you are forced to use an experimental vaccination against your free will

No, no. The binary thinking being referred to is the idea that masks must work 100% or they're useless. That vaccines must offer 100% immunity, or they're useless. That social distancing has to work 100% of the time, or it's a total waste of time.

I just pointed out to you a couple of posts before this one, that is was a combination of these strategies that helped us get through the pandemic, rather than just one on it's own.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry - didn't work for me or anyone else I know. The virus mutated, as viruses tend to do, into something more contagious and less deadly.

Which doesn't address what I said.

Which was, "And all of those restrictions have since been lifted here. Everything is pretty much back to normal now because the vast majority of people have been vaccinated. It's almost as though the vaccine .... worked!"

 

[SkepticThinker]

Thanks for a sound and reasonable (in my opinion) response. I want to point out some things though.

1) I have given the source of my information regarding the six in ten figure multiple times but I'll give it again:
Why Do Vaccinated People Represent Most COVID-19 Deaths Right Now? It was very easy for me to find.

2) I got the shots and one booster, and I wore a mask and socially distanced, and washed my hands over and over again, and I complied BECAUSE I HAD TO TRUST SOMEONE, and I am into research anyway. I've even said that some of the fixes, in retrospect, were probably overkill or mistakes but I felt like they were honest mistakes made during a crisis.

3) I also live in a neighborhood full of medical personnel, including several doctors. I'll just say that their story differed a lot from your own, but that stands to reason since the rate of disease varied so much across our country.

4) I am still going to call the shots "shots" and not "vaccines" because clearly, while they can apparently be effective in reducing the severity of the illness, they do not apparently prevent it, at least not in my experience (and I'm including many friends and family and acquaintances in that figure). Sorry, I just don't see it. But I still got the two initial shots and one booster. I've told the story of the booster so many times now but I'll say one thing repeatedly - I was sicker with the booster than I was with COVID, which I also ended up with. Hey, I've had it all now, except the latest booster, which I am hesitant to get considering how severe and unrelenting the headache was with the first one, for four days. I should have all sorts of immunity, but I probably don't!

Anyway, thanks for a measured and calm response, and no name calling. I appreciate it.

Number 4 betrays a misunderstanding of how vaccines work, and which have already been explained to you in this thread.

Vaccines are meant to teach your immune system how to fight the virus, so that when you contract it, your body already knows what how to fight it off and starts doing so right away. This is how every vaccine is meant to work. I'm not aware of any vaccines that are 100% effective - not even the polio vaccine is 100% effective.

Notice how once a vast majority of people were vaccinated, "suddenly" all those variants stopped popping up all over the place? That's because the virus had a lot less hosts available to them in which they could reproduce like crazy. The more infected people there are, the more chances the virus has to evolve and mutate. I'm sure you've noticed that the hospitals aren't overflowing with dying COVID patients, as they were during the height of the pandemic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I hate to break it to you, or anyone else but 1.8 people die globally every second. A preventable injury related death occurs in the US every two minutes. That's 720 Americans who die every day from PREVENTABLE INURIES (not other reasons). People cry and mourn and life continues. I speak as one who lost my own husband to a massive heart attack in 2020. In other words, he died in 2020. It sucked, and I've struggled, but I am here to tell you that life does go on, till it doesn't anymore. One day I'll die too, and one day my kids will die and THEIR kids will die. It's the way things go.

So your sentiment seems to be ... people die, so we shouldn't bother doing anything to mitigate deaths from a global pandemic, because people are just going to die anyway. People die from heart disease every day, so why bother doing anything to try to prevent heart disease, since people are just going to die anyway. People die from other stuff all the time, so why bother doing anything to try to reduce deaths from other stuff?
Is that it? Because that's what I'm taking away from these posts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I wonder, if I had chicken pox AND shingles, am I immune? I am asking because the shingles vaccine is potentially very problematic and I don't want more drama in my life.

Oh, I see it's possible but unlikely to get shingles more than once. Also, the Shingrix and other shingles shots can offer immunity for up to five years - then they have to be given again. They are not as effective on people who are over aged 70.

Oh, the shingles vaccine is supposed to offer a 90 percent chance that you won't have shingles! Supposedly that was the same with the COVID vaccine. I and everyone I know who has gotten COVID after being vaxxed and boosted must all be extremely unlucky and rare.

I'm going to pass.

Shingles is pretty problematic too. Very much so. My mother almost lost her hearing from it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not FROM Texas. I live here now. I'm a former military brat and wife and I've lived all over the world. Originally from New Orleans. Just to clarify.

Also, my research was from 2021 which is when I got the shots. I believe now that at least the original Pfizer shot has been fully vetted by the FDA. Which is really the source I use since I live in the US now. And the Pfizer booster, which I got in late 2021, was the one I had such a negative response to. The boosters are subject to the same trials as the original shots.

Your source says that 2 of the 3 trials have been completed and that boosters for variants were subject to the same process. It says that the shots were authorized for emergency use only and that applies to boosters as well. So no, I don't believe that these shots were given to thousands and thousands of people worldwide only after being totally researched.

Yes, it was originally an emergency release. But it phase 3 was on and had shown no troubles when the released it. Part of the problem is that phase 3 technically requires a two year observation period to be completed.. We did not have two years. If we waited another two years the deaths from it would have almost certainly more than doubled. I tried to copy and paste the applicable quotes but that article won't allow a copy and paste. You have to scroll down to "What next?"

Inside the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial: ‘We knew the world was watching and waiting for results’

The 2020 Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial recruited more than 44,000 participants and reached submission for emergency authorization in 248 days: showing unprecedented speed and agility in the context of a global pandemic. So what have been the learnings from the trial – and how could they...

www.biopharma-reporter.com

And I do not knowhow much testing boosters need. They likely do not need as much as the original vaccine. So I am not sure if there is any validity about complaining of boosters are valid or not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So your sentiment seems to be ... people die, so we shouldn't bother doing anything to mitigate deaths from a global pandemic, because people are just going to die anyway. People die from heart disease every day, so why bother doing anything to try to prevent heart disease, since people are just going to die anyway. People die from other stuff all the time, so why bother doing anything to try to reduce deaths from other stuff?
Is that it? Because that's what I'm taking away from these posts.

That's been my interpretation of such positions over the past couple years.

 

[Kathryn]

And I do not knowhow much testing boosters need. They likely do not need as much as the original vaccine. So I am not sure if there is any validity about complaining of boosters are valid or not.

Boosters need the same amount of testing as vaccines basically - several years of testing, per the site you linked to.

 

[Kathryn]

I may have underestimated your age. If you are getting up there in years, like I am then I would recommend trying to keep up to date. Having the disease is always worse than the vaccine.

Not in my case. See above posts.