fanaticism

[syo]

religious fanaticism damages any religion. many people turn away from religion because of fanatics, and I don't blame them for abandoning religion. sometimes I think we should all become irreligious so that we can get rid of fanatics. but since that is impossible, what can we really do to stop fanaticism?

 

[Laika]

religious fanaticism damages any religion. many people turn away from religion because of fanatics, and I don't blame them for abandoning religion. sometimes I think we should all become irreligious so that we can get rid of fanatics. but since that is impossible, what can we really do to stop fanaticism?

Its not a bad idea to pursue happiness as a goal. Generally, happy people aren't fanatics and aren't interested in the kind of masochism that goes with wanting to make sacrifices or to suffer for a cause. Being happy and therefore more at ease means you can have a certain emotional openness and makes it harder to want to hurt other people too. When you are more in tune with your own emotions, you are more receptive to other people. I don't know which comes first, but either unhappy people become fanatics to take out their frustration, or a belief system cripples people so makes them unhappy and fanatical. It could be a bit of both.

 

[syo]

Its not a bad idea to pursue happiness as a goal. Generally, happy people aren't fanatics and aren't interested in the kind of masochism that goes with wanting to make sacrifices or to suffer for a cause. A certain emotional openness makes it harder to want to hurt other people too as when you are more in tune with your own emotions, you are more receptive to other people. I don't know which comes first, but either unhappy people become fanatics to take out their frustration, or a belief system cripples people so makes them unhappy and fanatical. It could be a bit of both.

I think you are right!

 

[idav]

Education will stop it, lots of it, propagandize truth, pamphlets, spam, maybe even build some schools right in the middle of their communities promoting free education and internet. We've seen this have the power to over throw entire governments as backward countries desperately try to keep their citizens from viewing social media.

 

[Rival]

Its not a bad idea to pursue happiness as a goal. Generally, happy people aren't fanatics and aren't interested in the kind of masochism that goes with wanting to make sacrifices or to suffer for a cause. Being happy and therefore more at ease means you can have a certain emotional openness and makes it harder to want to hurt other people too. When you are more in tune with your own emotions, you are more receptive to other people. I don't know which comes first, but either unhappy people become fanatics to take out their frustration, or a belief system cripples people so makes them unhappy and fanatical. It could be a bit of both.

Hmm. I would disagree, but perhaps you are using a different interpretation of 'fanatic'. One could call the Charedim 'fanatics' and 'fundamentalists' but many of them seem perfectly happy to me.

 

[syo]

Education will stop it, lots of it, propagandize truth, pamphlets, spam, maybe even build some schools right in the middle of their communities promoting free education and internet. We've seen this have the power to over throw entire governments as backward countries desperately try to keep their citizens from viewing social media.

education is a crucial factor!

 

[PureX]

religious fanaticism damages any religion. many people turn away from religion because of fanatics, and I don't blame them for abandoning religion. sometimes I think we should all become irreligious so that we can get rid of fanatics. but since that is impossible, what can we really do to stop fanaticism?

Ideological extremism is a mental disorder. And like most mental disorders, it is a complex combination of genetics, personal experiences, and social dynamics. And it's not a disorder that particularly effects those who are religious. It's a disorder that effects people who adopt any ideology as their identity: political, ethnic, economic, sexual, and religious.

Humanity needs to begin studying this phenomena, in earnest, to find ways of mitigating it. And in the meantime we need to label it what it is, and stop making excuses for it.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

religious fanaticism damages any religion. many people turn away from religion because of fanatics, and I don't blame them for abandoning religion. sometimes I think we should all become irreligious so that we can get rid of fanatics. but since that is impossible, what can we really do to stop fanaticism?

Just ignore them.

 

[Laika]

Hmm. I would disagree, but perhaps you are using a different interpretation of 'fanatic'. One could call the Charedim 'fanatics' and 'fundamentalists' but many of them seem perfectly happy to me.

I would tend to think of fanaticism as a kind of mental state of inner turmoil and tension. It means that people feel compelled to find ways to validate themselves even if they are destructive or irrational. Being fanatical shuts down your ability to think clearly and so often prevents them from a much deeper understanding of what they are doing.

The weakness and irrationality of fanaticism is that it is ultimately concerned about appearances and a compulsive desire try to eliminate "deviation" from conforming to a set of norms of behaviour. By eliminating what is considered to be a "threat" to them, fanatics try to alleviate the inner tension but the effect is only temporary. they'll come back and get offended or upset over something else because they are wound up like clock work. In terms of religious and political understanding, fanatics are usually very ignorant or superficial and are looking for a "quick fix" to feel better about themselves. you can get "smart" fanatics but being highly educated is not the same as understanding or having the ability to doubt yourself and think clearly. Overall, fanatics tend to obsess over little details whilst letting much bigger hypocrisies pass them by.

 

[PureX]

Just ignore them.

That just doesn't work very well. This sickness grows and strengthens in ignorance.

 

[sayak83]

education is a crucial factor!

Is there any evidence that education reduces fanaticism?

 

[sun rise]

Is there any evidence that education reduces fanaticism?

I'm no sure there is - quite a few Westerners who joined up with the fanatics were well educated. Maybe the right kind of education with an emphasis on spotting propaganda and logical fallacies would help, but we don't teach such things typically.

And it depends what kind of education as well. Fanatics running schools tend to produce fanatical students.

 

[sayak83]

I'm no sure there is - quite a few Westerners who joined up with the fanatics were well educated. Maybe the right kind of education with an emphasis on spotting propaganda and logical fallacies would help, but we don't teach such things typically.

And it depends what kind of education as well. Fanatics running schools tend to produce fanatical students.

I agree. Schools also don't teach practices that help build compassion and empathy for others and focus on technical knowledge more. Not sure that is of any help in reducing fanaticism.

 

[Augustus]

Ideological extremism is a mental disorder.

Why is it a mental disorder?

People have this desire to see violence and irrationality as some kind of error that comes from our brain not working properly, and that the good side of our nature is in fact the 'correct' one.

We didn't evolve to be peaceful Rationalists though, it is a learned behaviour and incorporates a specific ideology.

Extremism is just another aspect of our cognitive make up that is equally 'natural' as peaceful Rationalism. Viewing it as a mental disorder is hiding from the truth of our collective nature.

If we want to reduce extremism we have to start by accepting it is not some kind of error, but a natural response to certain social and cultural conditions.

 

[Rival]

Why is it a mental disorder?

People have this desire to see violence and irrationality as some kind of error that comes from our brain not working properly, and that the good side of our nature is in fact the 'correct' one.

We didn't evolve to be peaceful Rationalists though, it is a learned behaviour and incorporates a specific ideology.

Extremism is just another aspect of our cognitive make up that is equally 'natural' as peaceful Rationalism. Viewing it as a mental disorder is hiding from the truth of our collective nature.

If we want to reduce extremism we have to start by accepting it is not some kind of error, but a natural response to certain social and cultural conditions.

You mean the same rationalism and humanism that is responsible for every positive development under the sun, and the Christian Church be damned because it never had a single good idea?

 

[Augustus]

You mean the same rationalism and humanism that is responsible for every positive development under the sun, and the Christian Church be damned because it never had a single good idea?

Irrationality: Satan for secularists

 

[Sunstone]

To the extent you can teach critical reasoning; the emotions of compassion, kindness, and empathy; and Enlightenment or humanistic values (under whatever name you want to call them), then teach those things. But you will never eliminate fanaticism altogether, you will only at best ameliorate it. It is too deeply rooted in human nature to be truly weeded out.

By the way, so long as we're on the subject, it's well known to psychologists these days, but not so much to the general public, that rationality is not strongly correlated with intelligence. That is, the assumption that the smarter you are the more rational you are doesn't have much empirical evidence in its favor. Rationality -- like creativity -- is not a necessary property of high intelligence.

There are a whole lot of very smart, but relatively irrational folks in this world who lack the creativity to think much outside the boxes of their culture and upbringing.

 

[Augustus]

To the extent you can teach critical reasoning; the emotions of compassion, kindness, and empathy; and Enlightenment or humanistic values (under whatever name you want to call them), then teach those things. But you will never eliminate fanaticism altogether, you will only at best ameliorate it. It is too deeply rooted in human nature to be truly weeded out.

I'm uncertain as to how much this can provide a solution.

'Enlightenment values' led to the Reign of Terror and Soviet Communism, and fanaticism is often a result of compassion. Many fanatics are very altruistic and believe they are moral actors standing up for the oppressed and/or disenfranchised.

Ideological fanatics are often highly educated too.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm uncertain as to how much this can provide a solution.

'Enlightenment values' led to the Reign of Terror and Soviet Communism, and fanaticism is often a result of compassion. Many fanatics are very altruistic and believe they are moral actors standing up for the oppressed and/or disenfranchised.

Ideological fanatics are often highly educated too.

You seem to be assuming that I'm advocating teaching Enlightenment values in isolation. I don't know what I said to give you that impression. I thought I listed a number of things to teach together.

 

[Augustus]

You seem to be assuming that I'm advocating teaching Enlightenment values in isolation. I don't know what I said to give you that impression. I thought I listed a number of things to teach together.

I also meant them to be taken together.

Compassion, for example, is a major driver of fanaticism. Critical thinking is also dependent on starting axioms for where it may lead to.