Ezkiels vision?

[F0uad]

Are ezkiel's visions revelation or just visions he had according to the bible?

For example the Cherubims and so forth..

 

[Desert Snake]

Even from a brief search some think that it is something akin to parable. However considering that Ezekiel is listed as a prophet, it would preclude things like "sayings" or straight history.
So, revelations.

 

[apophenia]

Almost certainly use of amanita muscaria mushrooms, or some other substance of the kind referred to as 'angels' in the scriptures.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ufo's. definitely Ufo's

 

[Reptillian]

Ufo's. definitely Ufo's

I'm sure the History Channel even has a few UFO specials dedicated to Ezekiel's visions.

What if Ezekiel saw a UFO, but it turns out that angels in the Bible are space aliens?

 

[outhouse]

Are ezkiel's visions revelation or just visions he had according to the bible?

For example the Cherubims and so forth..

back then drunken stupers and hallucinations were considered visions

as well as your typical dream

and hallucinations from burnt flesh as well as from fasting.

 

[Levite]

Are ezkiel's visions revelation or just visions he had according to the bible?

For example the Cherubims and so forth..

Both. Prophecies sometimes came in intense visions or dreams. And the language that is used is extremely self-aware of its own inadequacies: much use is made of words and particles meaning "like," "as it were," "likeness," "similitude," and so forth, showing that Ezekiel is attempting to put into language experiences for which he has no referent, perhaps for which human language has no accurate descriptors.

I find it reductive and rationalizing to write off theophanies to drugs or other intoxicants. Ezekiel especially is a deeply mystical text, and the surface or plain meaning is the barest scraping of the tip of the iceberg. His theophanies have always been understood as texts best understood in Kabbalah.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Are ezkiel's visions revelation or just visions he had according to the bible?

For example the Cherubims and so forth..

A revelation is only when a new Law is ordained.
Moses had a revelation.

ezkiel had the power of prophecy. Visions are mostly prophecies regarding future events. He was a Prophet, not a Messenger.

 

[Desert Snake]

A revelation is only when a new Law is ordained.
Moses had a revelation.

ezkiel had the power of prophecy. Visions are mostly prophecies regarding future events. He was a Prophet, not a Messenger.

His visions were revelations though, do you have some verse or reason for assigning 'revelations' only to prophecy that ordains a new law?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

His visions were revelations though, do you have some verse or reason for assigning 'revelations' only to prophecy that ordains a new law?

Well, it really has to do with how the term "Revelation" is defined.
The way I understand revelation is that, a Major Messenger of God, who brings a New Religion has a Revelation from God.
For Example Moses or Jesus.
Moses brought Torah, which had new Laws comparing to His own time.

Jesus likewise brought a new Revelation, which was new comparing to His own time.
He abolished many of the Laws of Moses, or Modified and added new Laws, such as divorce Law, which was allowed by Moses but not so by Jesus.
So, that permission from God to change those Laws, can come through a "Direct" revelation in my understanding.
So, both Jesus and Moses had said, they have commandments from God.
However there are minor prophets, who do not have a direct revelation. They get inspired 'through', or 'by' the Revelation.
For example Paul says:

Galatians 1:12: "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

 

[Desert Snake]

Well, it really has to do with how the term "Revelation" is defined.
The way I understand revelation is that, a Major Messenger of God, who brings a New Religion has a Revelation from God.
For Example Moses or Jesus.
Moses brought Torah, which had new Laws comparing to His own time.

Jesus likewise brought a new Revelation, which was new comparing to His own time.
He abolished many of the Laws of Moses, or Modified and added new Laws, such as divorce Law, which was allowed by Moses but not so by Jesus.
So, that permission from God to change those Laws, can come through a "Direct" revelation in my understanding.
So, both Jesus and Moses had said, they have commandments from God.
However there are minor prophets, who do not have a direct revelation. They get inspired 'through', or 'by' the Revelation.
For example Paul says:

Galatians 1:12: "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Ezekiel isn't a minor prophet though...right? I don't think His prophecy was intended to be seen as parables or inferences from other teachings.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ezekiel isn't a minor prophet though...right? I don't think His prophecy was intended to be seen as parables or inferences from other teachings.

Well, I think major or minor prophets definition is based on their mission.
I believe those who were the founders of Major World Religions are major prophets. These are the ones who bring a message to humanity, and directly talk on behalf of God.

How would you define a major or minor prophet?

 

[Desert Snake]

Well, I think major or minor prophets definition is based on their mission.
I believe those who were the founders of Major World Religions are major prophets. These are the ones who bring a message to humanity, and directly talk on behalf of God.

How would you define a major or minor prophet?

According to how they are traditionally listed. The major prophets, and the twelvw, I believe, minor prophets.
Any prophecy in the Bible I would consider as 'revelation' though.

 

[Desert Snake]

Anyways, I think we are merely discussing the semantics of the term "revelation" at this point.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Anyways, I think we are merely discussing the semantics of the term "revelation" at this point.

Yes I agree.

Well, then in that case Ezkiel can be said had revelations.
I think, in Bible, there appears two type of revelations; direct revelations from God, and another one through visions and dreams.
There are those who claimed God directly had given them a mission or a message to give to people, and asked people to obey them, like Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus. There are others, who did not claim that God has given them a mission, or to bring Laws to people, or to obey them. They just promoted the same Laws that had come already before them, or made Prophecies of future.

 

[Desert Snake]

no offense but I think you're getting parables and history mixed up with prophecy. Ezekiel is specifically referred to as a prophet.

 

[Caladan]

I find it reductive and rationalizing to write off theophanies to drugs or other intoxicants. Ezekiel especially is a deeply mystical text, and the surface or plain meaning is the barest scraping of the tip of the iceberg.

Agreed. Not specifically about the mystical importance of the visions, but that the Book of Ezekiel is much more than the vision. In fact the vision is only a small portion of the book. Other than his vision, Ezekiel gives a series of meaningful moral teachings and lessons to the people of Israel. Through the years I've seen many people quick to discuss unfounded theories regarding Ezekiel's vision: hallucinogenics, UFOs, etc. But none of these people actually discussed the message that Ezekiel attempted to pass on.
As far as I understand many of the visions were seen as allegories by historical Jewish sages. For example the vision of the dry bones was a promise that God will restore Israel. This prophecy was made after the destruction of the Temple and during the Babylonian captivity, and while Ezekiel's first prophecies were judgements against the nation, the later ones such as this had a clear goal to uplift the people and remind them that God will never abandon them and will restore them.

So my advice to people who really wish to understand what the Book of Ezekiel is saying... is to put aside for a moment preoccupations with revelations, drug theories, or extraterrestrials. Read the entire book, preferably with scholarly commentary. Remember, Ezekiel's vision is only the beginning of the book.

 

[F0uad]

Both. Prophecies sometimes came in intense visions or dreams. And the language that is used is extremely self-aware of its own inadequacies: much use is made of words and particles meaning "like," "as it were," "likeness," "similitude," and so forth, showing that Ezekiel is attempting to put into language experiences for which he has no referent, perhaps for which human language has no accurate descriptors.

I find it reductive and rationalizing to write off theophanies to drugs or other intoxicants. Ezekiel especially is a deeply mystical text, and the surface or plain meaning is the barest scraping of the tip of the iceberg. His theophanies have always been understood as texts best understood in Kabbalah.

I can agree on the vision and dreams i have no problems with that. My question was simply asking if they are considered revelations or simply dreams by mainstream Jews and Christians. I myself have done some reading into Kabbalah but i find it myself directing to much to Sufism sects what really scare me in a way.

Could you maybe provide me a source/link/website that gives more information regarding the visions ''revelation'' he had?

InvestigateTruth i never meant revelation as in scripture but Christians and Jews belief that the Old-testament do have sayings of early Prophets and consider it to be written down in the Bible + Torah.