Experiencing God

[Muffled]

Even eyewitness testimony of real events that are seen by lots of people are not. A recent NJ State Supreme Court decision backs this up: Studies have found that faulty eyewitness testimony is the leading cause of wrongful convictions. New Jersey is one of the few states in the country where courts consider the growing body of scientific evidence that suggests the human memory is far from perfect

Read more at Chief Justice Rabner Reshaped the Use of Eyewitness Testimony | New Jersey News, Politics, Opinion, and Analysis


But ... even in light of that someone is going to tell me that unshared, unverified, "religious experiences" should be given some sort of special notice? I think not. Let's stop calling a "spade" an "entrenching tool," and accept the proper default value for anything that involves hearing the voices of invisible or halucinatory beings: that is to say it's delusional.
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I believe seeing spiritual experiences as delusional as an a priori argument ie You have already decided it must be delusional before even arguing the point and all your arguments are going to refer back to your a priori position.

 

[Muffled]

How can it all be in the head even when someone cleanses the mind of all attachment in meditation, yet a serene seeming emptiness is still percieving? Empty to us because its free of all the distractions we surround ourselves with.

The mind is still engaged even if it is not doing thinking. THe question then becomes: What is the source of the experience? I believe there are many possibities: the mind could generate the experience as though it were external; ones spirit could be speaking; the Spirit of God could be speaking: a demon could be speaking or an angel could be speaking. I also met someone who might have been able to read minds so the external words were coming from another person.

 

[Nakosis]

The mind is still engaged even if it is not doing thinking. THe question then becomes: What is the source of the experience? I believe there are many possibities: the mind could generate the experience as though it were external; ones spirit could be speaking; the Spirit of God could be speaking: a demon could be speaking or an angel could be speaking. I also met someone who might have been able to read minds so the external words were coming from another person.

The mind alters our perception. It changes whatever we receive through our sense to fit patterns it's been learning since before birth.

Why wouldn't it alter the reality of these spiritual experiences. No reason to think it doesn't.

lets say there is a God. Paul experienced "God" however he perceive this as a visitation by Jesus. Allah saw he experience as a visitation by Gabriel. They trusted the apparent truth of their experience.

I believe they experienced something. However the perception was altered by the mind. So I don't think they are lying, but neither can it be trusted as actual truth.

It's just how the mind works. I see no reason to believe this is any different for those claiming to speak for God.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

I am glad that he is so strong in your life. That is good.. really good. You are in a place now, like myself, that you know, so don't need faith as such. It is a good place to be.

 

[viole]

My question was sincere.

How can you know that it was the holly spirit and not the father or the son ?

I am curious. Why are you spelling it "holly" (at least twice)? I can only think of three alternatives:

1) genuine spelling error
2) you are confusing it with Buddy Holly
3) you refuse to use the word "holy" for it

What is it?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

No, the mind is not designed to fool you. It is not designed to obfuscate the truth. It is designed to experience and to respond accordingly.

Cool.

My mind tells me that there is no God.

Now what?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sonofason]

In your opinion.



*

Yes, of course. It is my opinion that there can be only one creator of the universe.

 

[Sonofason]

So do you believe in the Hindu gods, or anyone else's gods, or do you believe in your own god ?.

I honestly don't know what Hindu gods are exactly. To my knowledge, I've never experienced one. I experience God. In God I trust. In God I believe. I'm not sure God appreciates all the labels you're trying to place upon Him. God is God.

 

[psychoslice]

But you believe in your god, what is different, why is your god the true god just because you believe you experienced him. Your so called experience is just that, an experience, its no different than experiencing Bugs Bunny, or Santa clause, or whatever you believe in.

 

[Sonofason]

No, the mind lies to you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29iht-edwang.1.14069662.html?_r=0

The mind is constantly fooling you. One has to recognize and accept this or they remained susceptible to being fooled by it.

People forget the source of data and assume it is an original thought, or even the result of a divinely inspired message.

The longer you are constantly exposed to an idea, the more likely you are to accept it as truth. Your thinking is the result of your experience plus all of the out of context data your mind is subconsciously collecting.

I am what I am. If my mind is fooling me, then so be it. I believe what I believe.
If you're right, then it is my recommendation that one ought to expose himself/herself to God. Only then can he/she hope to have an experience of God, thus enabling his/her thinking to be a reflection of his/her experience of God.

 

[psychoslice]

So then it doesn't matter what we believe, I get you now, but do you get it ?.

 

[Sonofason]

Cool.

My mind tells me that there is no God.

Now what?

Ciao

- viole

If you are content with what your mind is telling you, I suppose there's is no need for you to investigate any further. There's nothing left for you to do. I guess your spiritual journey is over.

 

[Sonofason]

So then it doesn't matter what we believe, I get you now, but do you get it ?.

I recommend Romans 14.

 

[psychoslice]

Yea, my so called Spiritual journey ended years ago, my awakening told me that we are all one, all one in consciousness, or the Source if you like that word better. We are all ready that which we are trying to discover, the actual journey is what keeps us away from realizing that, it can be fun, but don't get too involves, you will only loose that which you are already, and that is pure Consciousness, that is who we all are, not some silly beliefs of a so called god.

 

[psychoslice]

In stead of using scripture as your weapon, why not use what your own mind says from within, I don't care for second-hand knowledge no matter where you believe it comes from.

 

[Sonofason]

Yea, my so called Spiritual journey ended years ago, my awakening told me that we are all one, all one in consciousness, or the Source if you like that word better. We are all ready that which we are trying to discover, the actual journey is what keeps us away from realizing that, it can be fun, but don't get too involves, you will only loose that which you are already, and that is pure Consciousness, that is who we all are, not some silly beliefs of a so called god.

Your beliefs are no less silly than mine, and they are no less silly than those of ancient goat herders.

 

[psychoslice]

I'm glad you realized that, that was my whole point.

 

[Sonofason]

In stead of using scripture as your weapon, why not use what your own mind says from within, I don't care for second-hand knowledge no matter where you believe it comes from.

Yeah, right. Throw away all the texts books and just rely on your own mind. That should make you a knowledgeable person, right? Actually, as an intelligent human being, I find it to be both reasonable and advantageous to utilize the knowledge that others have gathered, as well that which is reasoned in my own mind.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't discredit anyone's experience. What do I know about what they've experienced.

It is up to them to accept it or discredit. Just better IMO for each individual to be aware of all the ways they can be tripped up.

I think people do have authentic spiritual experiences. However sometimes they start thinking that makes them something special and can start speaking on God's behalf.

Well, at the same time if you know what the Abrahamic beliefs on these things generally are, there isn't some reason to not think there are legit revelations. The idea that there aren't, on the other hand, is not really traditional, it seems to go along with the more secular groups.

 

[psychoslice]

This is where you and I differ, I get my knowledge from within, and you get yours from out there somewhere, good luck with that.