So do you believe everyone who claims to speak for God is actually speaking for God?
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Experiencing God
- Thread starter Sonofason
- Start date
So do you believe everyone who claims to speak for God is actually speaking for God?
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
No, of course not. There are such things as liars. Their minds know very well what they are doing. And if they were willing, most of them could tell you why.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
They are all liars? Might not some be simply deranged?
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Do you believe that the god you have experienced is specifically the Christian god? Why could it not have been the Jewish God (same god really) or Allah? Perhaps it was one of the Buddha?
How were you able to specify which god it was?
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should hang on to that answer for a bit, and see if someone can provide an honest and intelligent answer.
Keep in mind what I had said, since you have apparently already forgotten what I said. For those who might have a very short memory span, I was responding Nakosis, who had said,
Nakosis said (post 121):
And Sonofason responded (post 122)
So at this point I will re-present Sapiens interjection:
Sapiens interjects:
Well, I really don't understand this. Are you asking me if they are all liars? I just said some of them are liars, so surely your not asking me this question. You already know my answer.
Are you asking yourself this question? If so, please don't waste my time while you work out your own personal problems.
Are you asking the world or other debaters this question?
If so, please do so without addressing it to me, and wasting my time. I already gave you The Correct Answer.
As to your second question which I shall now repeat.
Sapiens asks a serious and legitimate question:
Yes of course, some might be deranged. But not necessarily so. Even deranged people can experience God. God loves everyone. And those who love God do experience God.
Oh, and keep in mind, there likely is a subset of deranged people who also belong to the set of liars.
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Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Well, I believe it is because when I was reading the Gospels of Jesus Christ, I felt as though a was drawing closer to God. I felt a sense of "this is the truth". This is when I was starting to believe in God. And the more I was drawn to God, the hungrier I became for more of that feeling. And I got it. And then I read something that Jesus said in the gospel of John, chapter 14 which hit the nail on the head. And I knew then that what I was experiencing was indeed the Holy Spirit of God.
After those first experiences, and especially after the moment I repented from my sins, which came after the realization that I was convicted for my sins, which was at the beginning of my spiritual journey with God, I would feel God's presence in flashes, and in short bursts, for just moments at a time. These moments always occurred when I was completely mindful of God. Sometimes they would occur when I would hear songs or beautiful music that reminded me of God. And in these short moments, I could sense that it was indeed God showing me that I was in the right place in that moment. That in that moment I was truly connected with him. And of course other thoughts would enter my mind, or I'd be distracted, and they would pass. Though they were never forgot.
I remember a few years back when I was in that right place for more than an hour. I didn't want to move. I didn't move. I couldn't move.
Jesus said,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(John 14:15-17)
It was Jesus who made this promise to me.
It was Jesus who kept his word to me.
It was Jesus, the Son of God, who saved me.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
..........:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap
Bravo! Amazing! Rarely do I read something inspirational like this on the forums!
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
So in a time of need when you were searching for god you began to find him in the first religious texts you read and had a spiritualistic experience while in that religious scope.
Have you ever tried having spiritual experiences with other religions? what do you think of the claims people have in other religions that say they too have had experiences directly from god?
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
When someone tells me they have experienced God, I tend to believe them.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Can it be any god ?.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
There is only one God
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
psychoslice
Veteran Member
So do you believe in the Hindu gods, or anyone else's gods, or do you believe in your own god ?.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
So do you believe that god is beyond just the Christian god and that other "versions" of god are also correct such as the three blind men and the Elephant analogy or do you feel that the christian god is the most correct version?
No, the mind lies to you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29iht-edwang.1.14069662.html?_r=0
The mind is constantly fooling you. One has to recognize and accept this or they remained susceptible to being fooled by it.
People forget the source of data and assume it is an original thought, or even the result of a divinely inspired message.
The longer you are constantly exposed to an idea, the more likely you are to accept it as truth. Your thinking is the result of your experience plus all of the out of context data your mind is subconsciously collecting.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Right, but this doesn't doesn't mean that I would discredit some ones religious experience. Some experiences look more 'fake' to me than others, but I reserve actual discrediting for really outrageous anecdotes.
I don't discredit anyone's experience. What do I know about what they've experienced.
It is up to them to accept it or discredit. Just better IMO for each individual to be aware of all the ways they can be tripped up.
I think people do have authentic spiritual experiences. However sometimes they start thinking that makes them something special and can start speaking on God's behalf.
Often visions. Like Paul's vision of Jesus. Visitation by angels. Muhammad claimed to be visited by Gabriel. Sometimes an intensely pure white light.
Some claim to feel a presence, peace, a burden being lifted.
the Pentecostal speak in tongues. This to them is a spiritual experience.
Some see signs everywhere. Like a flock of crows fly overhead so they will alter their direction. God communicating to them.
It all seems real to the experiencer. Real enough to support their belief.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Even eyewitness testimony of real events that are seen by lots of people are not. A recent NJ State Supreme Court decision backs this up: Studies have found that faulty eyewitness testimony is the leading cause of wrongful convictions. New Jersey is one of the few states in the country where courts consider the growing body of scientific evidence that suggests the human memory is far from perfect
Read more at Chief Justice Rabner Reshaped the Use of Eyewitness Testimony | New Jersey News, Politics, Opinion, and Analysis
But ... even in light of that someone is going to tell me that unshared, unverified, "religious experiences" should be given some sort of special notice? I think not. Let's stop calling a "spade" an "entrenching tool," and accept the proper default value for anything that involves hearing the voices of invisible or halucinatory beings: that is to say it's delusional.
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