Experiencing God

[Muffled]

Did you do drugs? Honest question. A lot of people think they have experienced thing that are visual hallucinations.

I never did but my brother met a version of God that I can't absolutely identify with through an LSD trip. I did find what his version of God interesting and sometimes informative. As far as I know he never measured what he was hearing to what the Bible says.

 

[Muffled]

You really have no way of knowing your subconscious as you claim to, clearly you are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger Effect in this instance. These are not claims that can be made without an external reference. You lack that.

I believe my subconscious is my spirit. I do know his voice and it is different from God's voice. Granted I don't know my spirit very well because he only talks about what he can remember and like God only reveals what he wishes to reveal.
I do not believe that I have irrational beliefs about this as Dunning Kruger suggests. I believe you do have an irratinal belief about it and probably fit right into the syndrome.

But you haven't proven that the Bible is valid or worthwhile. It's no more credible to use the Bible as your guide than it is to use a Dr. Seuss book. You've just arbitrarily chosen a source that you happen to like and which gives you some form of emotional comfort.

I believe Dr Seuss did not report any experiences with God in his books but the Bible does. I believe I am not obligated to prove that the Bible is credible. I find the Bible to be credible because it works.

But to that schizophrenic, I'm sure that everything he experiences feels absolutely real and he justifies it just like you do. Yet you claim to somehow "know" that you're right and he's wrong. That isn't rational, it's fallacious. You just don't seem to recognize your own irrationality.

In other words I beleive you think you are right about this so you must be irrational. That is totally illogical.

 

[Unibeauty]

I never did but my brother met a version of God that I can't absolutely identify with through an LSD trip. I did find what his version of God interesting and sometimes informative. As far as I know he never measured what he was hearing to what the Bible says.

Interesting, some people believe doing drugs opens your mind to the experience of God. I'm curious. Maybe too much. This is why I original asked. I don't care what people do as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Wanted to know if the mind was possibly altered at the time of the experience.

 

[viole]

Interesting, some people believe doing drugs opens your mind to the experience of God. I'm curious. Maybe too much. This is why I original asked. I don't care what people do as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Wanted to know if the mind was possibly altered at the time of the experience.

Maybe it was already altered.

Joking. Could not resist, lol.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Cephus]

In other words I beleive you think you are right about this so you must be irrational. That is totally illogical.

No, it has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. Being rational or irrational has to do with following the established laws of logic, not in my opinion.

 

[Muffled]

No, it has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. Being rational or irrational has to do with following the established laws of logic, not in my opinion.

I agree and I did not express what my logic was so there was no need for you to judge something you didn't know.

This person is a Mormon and believes in following his religion which means that he does not believe in stealing. The spirit that took him for a walk without his knowledge also shoplifted. Since stealing is evil then my deduction is that it is an evil spirit. I also believe it is a lieing spirit since it told him it was a bishop of the church but no self respecting bishop of the church would steal so it is a lie most likely perpetrated on the victim so that the spirit would be welcomed instead of cast out.

However there is a secondary belief on his part that the doctors are right when they say it is his own brain. I believe that is the blind leading the blind.

 

[Muffled]

Interesting, some people believe doing drugs opens your mind to the experience of God. I'm curious. Maybe too much. This is why I original asked. I don't care what people do as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Wanted to know if the mind was possibly altered at the time of the experience.

I believe the mind has a connection that allows the spirit residence. I believe that most of the time that connection is closed to other spirits but when there is physical damage it can be opened to other spiritual identities. I have also read cases of a person falling on his head and then hearing voices afterwards. There is also a possiblity that some people are open from birth by genetic anomaly which accounts for Psychics.

 

[Cephus]

I agree and I did not express what my logic was so there was no need for you to judge something you didn't know.

This person is a Mormon and believes in following his religion which means that he does not believe in stealing. The spirit that took him for a walk without his knowledge also shoplifted. Since stealing is evil then my deduction is that it is an evil spirit. I also believe it is a lieing spirit since it told him it was a bishop of the church but no self respecting bishop of the church would steal so it is a lie most likely perpetrated on the victim so that the spirit would be welcomed instead of cast out.

However there is a secondary belief on his part that the doctors are right when they say it is his own brain. I believe that is the blind leading the blind.

There is no "your" logic, there is only logic. You don't get to define your own logic, something is either logical or it is illogical and those determinations aren't yours to make. In your example, since there is no reason to think that evil spirits exist, your shoplifter deserves to be tried and convicted as though they are the guilty party. You might make a case that they are somehow deranged. This guy's spirit claims can't be shown to be real, therefore they shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Muffled]

There is no "your" logic, there is only logic. You don't get to define your own logic, something is either logical or it is illogical and those determinations aren't yours to make. In your example, since there is no reason to think that evil spirits exist, your shoplifter deserves to be tried and convicted as though they are the guilty party. You might make a case that they are somehow deranged. This guy's spirit claims can't be shown to be real, therefore they shouldn't be taken seriously.

I believe evidently you were not good at math. I think a prime example is geometry where more than one logical path can be used to prove a theorem. The logical path I take I can call mine but I don't really own it snce others may use it also.

I believe saying that something is true does not make it so and I believe the premise that evil spirits don't exist to be false.

I believe again that you are assuming that there are no spirits but the fact is that you can't prove that there aren't.

 

[SkepticX]

I believe again that you are assuming that there are no spirits but the fact is that you can't prove that there aren't.

Quite frankly it's hard not to question the honesty and intellectual integrity of those who break out that line.

Yet again on an Interwebs forum topic concerning religion I find this video poignant.

 

[Muffled]

Quite frankly it's hard not to question the honesty and intellectual integrity of those who break out that line.

Yet again on an Interwebs forum topic concerning religion I find this video poignant.

I enjoyed the video although i thought it to be a bit patronizing when speaking of the supernatural.

I believe you stated that the concept of evil spirits was false. I said that you are assuming that and can't prove it. If you had said that you didn't believe that evil spirits existed I would fully understand because most likely you lack evidence.

I believe my thinking is adquate for most things.

 

[SkepticX]

I enjoyed the video although i thought it to be a bit patronizing when speaking of the supernatural.

Cool! Yeah, I find that video very useful. It does what it does quite well.

I believe you stated that the concept of evil spirits was false. I said that you are assuming that and can't prove it. If you had said that you didn't believe that evil spirits existed I would fully understand because most likely you lack evidence.

When all we have is subjective perceptual data we're inherently on very shaky ground, and we need to accept that fundamental fact of life as a human beastie. Instead of digging in and doubling down we need to develop the intellectual humility to give our perceptions only their due weight in light of evidence or the lack thereof. All of us. All human brain owners and users. There's a very good reason science and critical thinking are fairly characterized as means and methods by which to avoid fooling ourselves.

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." -- Richard Feynman
"Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves." -- Carl Sagan
"Where we have presence we're liable to fool ourselves as well." -- Me

I believe my thinking is adquate for most things.

Quite more than, I'd bet.

 

[Muffled]

Cool! Yeah, I find that video very useful. It does what it does quite well.


When all we have is subjective perceptual data we're inherently on very shaky ground, and we need to accept that fundamental fact of life as a human beastie. Instead of digging in and doubling down we need to develop the intellectual humility to give our perceptions only their due weight in light of evidence or the lack thereof. All of us. All human brain owners and users. There's a very good reason science and critical thinking are fairly characterized as means and methods by which to avoid fooling ourselves.

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." -- Richard Feynman
"Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves." -- Carl Sagan
"Where we have presence we're liable to fool ourselves as well." -- Me


Quite more than, I'd bet.

I believe that is not all we have. We have the Bible and the words of Jesus that He was casting out demons.

That is what I have done.

I aam going to start a thread on demons since this experience is not an experience of God.

 

[Muffled]

Nope, I'm not stupid. And yes, people see and hear things under the influence of drugs, but we can identify what these things are and what they are caused by. The same is true of the old tried and true alcoholic who sees pink elephants. We know those elephants don't really exist, no matter how real it might feel to the alcoholic at the time. That's why we don't accept people on their word that they saw something or heard something that they cannot provide any corroboratory evidence for. Human experience is remarkably unrealiable, especially when they throw in unjustified explanations behind it. People who have scary dreams and blame Satan for it have no reason, outside of their pre-existing beliefs, to even think Satan is real. There's nothing to demonstrably link Satan to the dream, but they become convinced that must be what happened. The same thing happens with people who claim to talk to God. Sure, something is happening but there is no demonstrable link between the experience and God. That doesn't mean these people don't have an emotional investment in claiming it's so.

I believe similarity does not mean the same. I believe both are spiritual experiences. I believe a certain type of drug use opens the mind up to outside spirits for what ever that is worth but an outside experience can be an experience of God. The person under the influence of alcohol has numbed the mind leaving ones spirit to do as it wishes which is in most cases fantasize.

 

[Cephus]

I believe similarity does not mean the same. I believe both are spiritual experiences. I believe a certain type of drug use opens the mind up to outside spirits for what ever that is worth but an outside experience can be an experience of God. The person under the influence of alcohol has numbed the mind leaving ones spirit to do as it wishes which is in most cases fantasize.

You have no evidence that spirits exist. Just pulling this nonsense out of thin air because it makes you feel good is absurd.

 

[mystic64]

You have no evidence that spirits exist. Just pulling this nonsense out of thin air because it makes you feel good is absurd.

Ok, we are in General Religious "Debate". Cephus, you do not believe that God (or an spirt entity) exists, so therefore you do not believe that God (or anything else that could possibly be spirt) can possibily be experienced.

I believe saying that something is true does not make it so and I believe the premise that evil spirits don't exist to be false.

I believe again that you are assuming that there are no spirits but the fact is that you can't prove that there aren't?

Muffled have you ever experienced God or Jesus up close and personal? Met either one of them or both, one on one? If so, hey man what were they like?

 

[Cephus]

Ok, we are in General Religious "Debate". Cephus, you do not believe that God (or an spirt entity) exists, so therefore you do not believe that God (or anything else that could possibly be spirt) can possibily be experienced.

What I said was completely accurate. There is no evidence for the existence of any spirits. When you come back with some evidence, we'll evaluate it and see if it is credible. Until then, no.

 

[mystic64]

What I said was completely accurate. There is no evidence for the existence of any spirits. When you come back with some evidence, we'll evaluate it and see if it is credible. Until then, no.

Works for me .

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

My first post. A reply to post #1. God is not a "he".

 

[Bird123]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

To invoke God's attention is easy. One must simply knock on the door.

You are right about one thing. Once one discovers God,God is no longer a belief.

Finally, and this might sound funny to you, but is true none the less. Very few people actually want to find God.

I have often said that there are a million lessons to learn around religion and none of them are about God.