Ex Christians

[9Westy9]

I am lost in all the symbology. Are we talking about literal drugs or a religion here? Either way is fine I have had considerable experience with both in the past.

We're talking about the analogy of Christianity/ religion being like a doctors cure drug

 

[1robin]

We're talking about the analogy of Christianity/ religion being like a doctors cure drug

I knew that part but I am talking about whether you are now referring to the literal religion or the symbolic medicine that you claim .......... Heck, just tell me what it is and that will settle everything.

 

[waitasec]

As is the case every time your contention is so valuable to you that you will not risk it being challenged and proven wrong. I have over 190 sem hours in mathematics and physics. I have watched every secular or secular / theist debate the issue that I can find. I am currently reading Schroeder's book on biblical science and he is very un biased. I have just finished reading a secular book on old testament historic warfare. The more I read and research the stronger the bible becomes that is why I have no fear when I ask for a demonstration of the Bible's false claims, because they don't exist. They are just cherished false validations of a preconcieved preference.

someone has impressed the heck out of themselves, it seems...

 

[9Westy9]

I knew that part but I am talking about whether you are now referring to the literal religion or the symbolic medicine that you claim .......... Heck, just tell me what it is and that will settle everything.

You started by saying Christianity is similar to a doctor giving you a drug that cures you. You then asked how it's logical to then reject that the drug worked. #1576

I replied by saying that in my opinion the drug wasn't the cure only a feel good drug. #1595

Then you started saying how essentially the drug I claimed was a "feel good drug" was the one that cured the cause and all other (I assume) were just curing the symptoms. #1596

 

[1robin]

You started by saying Christianity is similar to a doctor giving you a drug that cures you. You then asked how it's logical to then reject that the drug worked. #1576

I replied by saying that in my opinion the drug wasn't the cure only a feel good drug. #1595

Then you started saying how essentially the drug I claimed was a "feel good drug" was the one that cured the cause and all other (I assume) were just curing the symptoms. #1596

I have about 9 debates going on in between upgrading an airforce electronics test set plus I am stupid. I have lost track with all this symbolism can you please just say what it is that you claim is a better substitute for Christianitie's spiritual component. I might want some!!! I am lost but your description of my position is incorrect.

 

[jasonwill2]

Christianity just didn't work for me, Jesus and Yahweh never answered my prayers or said anything, I was alone and in the dark and he never did anything even after I did everything that a Christian should of.

Jesus and Yahweh just didn't care about me. I don't know how I stood that for all those years before realizing my path.

 

[1robin]

Christianity just didn't work for me, Jesus and Yahweh never answered my prayers or said anything, I was alone and in the dark and he never did anything even after I did everything that a Christian should of.

Jesus and Yahweh just didn't care about me. I don't know how I stood that for all those years before realizing my path.

G. K. Chesterton said that Christianity has never been tried and found wanting, it has been found hard and left untried.

If you never repented and believed in Christ's sacrifice to the point of being born again, Jesus or God have no obligations to you. There are some things God grants to all men such as free will, life, a concience, etc... but answers to prayer, help with spiritual warfare, a certain leading and teaching in the ways of truth are all things God has no obligation to provide to an unbeliever. Until you surrender your life to Christ a person is considered rebellious and one who has made God an enemy and trampled underfoot the only remedy paid for at great cost. I think you might have been expecting something you were not entitled to. It is like saying you went to the recruiter and stood around a while and decided the army was not for you. How can you know you were never in teh army?

 

[InfidelRiot]

Christianity just didn't work for me, Jesus and Yahweh never answered my prayers or said anything, I was alone and in the dark and he never did anything even after I did everything that a Christian should of.

Jesus and Yahweh just didn't care about me. I don't know how I stood that for all those years before realizing my path.

Since you brought prayer into the equation, does Satan answer your prayers?

 

[jasonwill2]

If you never repented and believed in Christ's sacrifice to the point of being born again, Jesus or God have no obligations to you.

No true Scotsman fallacy. Also I did do that, which is why I Renounced the salvation as well as the Trinity and blasphemed the holy spirit (the only unforgivable sin according to [SIZE=-1]Matthew 12:31-32 and [SIZE=-1]Mark 3:28-29) to first break any possible spiritual bonds to a god that may or may not exist as well as a form of psychodrama to free myself emotionally from my Christian past.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

I used this format over 3 nights =D

The ultimate rite of blasphemy for ex-Christians: Renunciation of the Trinity

Since you brought prayer into the equation, does Satan answer your prayers?

I don't pray to Satan, however I do practice magick in his name and invoke him, and I have had some success with that, but then again you can invoke just about anything and it will work if you are a skilled enough magician. Sometimes not much happens that I can tell, but even just doing an emotionless ritual and asking for Satan to help me with something has been over 9,000 times more effective than praying to Jesus. :beach:

When I prayed to Jesus it wasn't even really hit and miss, simply put the results were just 99% absent. Then boom, I become a Satanist, practice magick, evoke, invoke, and I'm seeing at least some results from the get-go. I'd see more results but I'm kind of lazy in that department and haven't practiced some of the techniques such as meditation and visualization. I don't know how literal God/Satan/whatever is, and I don't think it really matters so long as it works for my magickal intentions, but I feel that my current beliefs and practices are an extremely vast improvement over what I was doing in Christianity. This system just brings more results, it's as simple as that.

 

[InfidelRiot]

even just doing an emotionless ritual and asking for Satan to help me with something has been over 9,000 times more effective than praying to Jesus. :beach:

It is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[jasonwill2]

It is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Then why didn't it work with Christianity if so? For seven years? Surely if I believed in Christianity it would self fulfill as well, but it didn't.

And if my practices put me in self-fulfilling projections that bring me results of success, then isn't that still accomplishing the goal? It doesn't matter then if it's true or not, just that the practice helps me accomplish a goal, and it has before, with very material and concrete real-life objectively real goals. Christianity never did that for me, only Satanism.

 

[1robin]

No true Scotsman fallacy.

This appeal to fallacy is besides being incorrect meaningless without the explenation for why you found it applicable. The bible clearly states that we are born seperated from God and that some set of rules apply to re-establishing our relationship with God. That is a set of dynamics that seperate a Christian from a non Christian. There is no fallacy here.

Also I did do that, which is why I Renounced the salvation as well as the Trinity and blasphemed the holy spirit (the only unforgivable sin according to [SIZE=-1]Matthew 12:31-32 and [SIZE=-1]Mark 3:28-29) to first break any possible spiritual bonds to a god that may or may not exist as well as a form of psychodrama to free myself emotionally from my Christian past.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Ok first you claimed that God did not care or help you. Now you seem to be saying you had faith in the resurrection that led to God sending the Holy Spirit to live within your heart and by whom all your guilt and remorse was removed, the fear of death was removed or lessened, your concience was quickened, and a peace that defies words was granted. Something does not add up. These are two contradictory statements. Then you reject all of that and deny the premise that made your former status as a Christian true. Then since the bible was verified by that experienec it is almost certain that it's teaching on Satan as the father of lies and misery and who would be destroyed is very likely true but you adopt him instead. I am speechless.

I used this format over 3 nights =D

The ultimate rite of blasphemy for ex-Christians: Renunciation of the Trinity

I will skip that but I do not think you understand what this means.

I don't pray to Satan, however I do practice magick in his name and invoke him, and I have had some success with that, but then again you can invoke just about anything and it will work if you are a skilled enough magician. Sometimes not much happens that I can tell, but even just doing an emotionless ritual and asking for Satan to help me with something has been over 9,000 times more effective than praying to Jesus. :beach:

What magik can you demonstrate?

 

[InfidelRiot]

Christianity never did that for me, only Satanism.

I am truly sorry for riling your wrath. I have been upset recently and I have taken it out on the site. I do agree with you. I am on the border right now. The very edge, in fact. As an agnostic theist, I absolutely deny the Judeo-Christian god and basically abhor those who believe in such a deity, while on the other hand I do have a belief in the goddess Gaea. She teaches me that I should respect other's beliefs and allow them to be as delusional as they wish, but the anti-theistic part of me interrupts and takes over.

 

[waitasec]

The bible clearly states that we are born seperated from God and that some set of rules apply to re-establishing our relationship with God.

and who gives the bible any authority to say that, you?

 

[1robin]

I am truly sorry for riling your wrath. I have been upset recently and I have taken it out on the site. I do agree with you. I am on the border right now. The very edge, in fact. As an agnostic theist, I absolutely deny the Judeo-Christian god and basically abhor those who believe in such a deity, while on the other hand I do have a belief in the goddess Gaea. She teaches me that I should respect other's beliefs and allow them to be as delusional as they wish, but the anti-theistic part of me interrupts and takes over.

What about Christians believing in a man like this is objectionable:

"The character of Jesus has not only been the highest pattern of virtue, but the strongest incentive to its practice, and has exerted so deep an influence, that it may be truly said, that the simple record of three short years of active life has done more to regenerate and to soften mankind, than all the disquisitions of philosophers and than all the exhortations of moralists."
William Lecky One of Britain’s greatest secular historians.

He was the meekest and lowliest of all the sons of men, yet he spoke of coming on the clouds of heaven with the glory of God. He was so austere that evil spirits and demons cried out in terror at his coming, yet he was so genial and winsome and approachable that the children loved to play with him, and the little ones nestled in his arms. His presence at the innocent gaiety of a village wedding was like the presence of sunshine.
No one was half so compassionate to sinners, yet no one ever spoke such red hot scorching words about sin. A bruised reed he would not break, his whole life was love, yet on one occasion he demanded of the Pharisees how they ever expected to escape the damnation of hell. He was a dreamer of dreams and a seer of visions, yet for sheer stark realism He has all of our stark realists soundly beaten. He was a servant of all, washing the disciples feet, yet masterfully He strode into the temple, and the hucksters and moneychangers fell over one another to get away from the mad rush and the fire they saw blazing in His eyes.
He saved others, yet at the last Himself He did not save. There is nothing in history like the union of contrasts which confronts us in the gospels. The mystery of Jesus is the mystery of divine personality.
Scottish Theologian James Stuart

When even his critics many times can't help but praise his example to consider people who believe in him as abhorent is a bizarre claim. There exists no greater example of human conduct in any other work of history or fiction in human history. He performed the greatest act of selfless love concievable. Considering all the hospitals, orphanages, and public school system created by his followers, the worth of their faith is more than precious, it is invaluable. .

 

[jasonwill2]

This appeal to fallacy is besides being incorrect meaningless without the explenation for why you found it applicable. The bible clearly states that we are born seperated from God and that some set of rules apply to re-establishing our relationship with God. That is a set of dynamics that seperate a Christian from a non Christian. There is no fallacy here.



Ok first you claimed that God did not care or help you. Now you seem to be saying you had faith in the resurrection that led to God sending the Holy Spirit to live within your heart and by whom all your guilt and remorse was removed, the fear of death was removed or lessened, your concience was quickened, and a peace that defies words was granted. Something does not add up. These are two contradictory statements. Then you reject all of that and deny the premise that made your former status as a Christian true. Then since the bible was verified by that experienec it is almost certain that it's teaching on Satan as the father of lies and misery and who would be destroyed is very likely true but you adopt him instead. I am speechless.



I will skip that but I do not think you understand what this means.


What magik can you demonstrate?

1. Appeal to fallacies? I'm sorry but if you think I "appeal" to errors in logical or rational thought then I'm not the one with a bad argument.

2. It's a two-parter, but this is probably the only part you would read: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2993573-post14.html

I should correct myself though, essentially for the first two years Jesus and Yahweh seemed to care until everything went to hell and then he left me.

3. The Magick I use is mostly on myself, but I have used magick before to manipulate others, to cast curses of death, and to help me go forward materially. There are limitations however (can't shoot fireballs), as a Magican can't do just anything and even then they has to have a certain amount of practice and skill to accomplish greater things.

I am truly sorry for riling your wrath. I have been upset recently and I have taken it out on the site. I do agree with you. I am on the border right now. The very edge, in fact. As an agnostic theist, I absolutely deny the Judeo-Christian god and basically abhor those who believe in such a deity, while on the other hand I do have a belief in the goddess Gaea. She teaches me that I should respect other's beliefs and allow them to be as delusional as they wish, but the anti-theistic part of me interrupts and takes over.

Doesn't recall being angry.

 

[InfidelRiot]

Doesn't recall being angry.

You might be soon.

 

[jasonwill2]

You might be soon.

I thought my response to the question earlier was sticking it to Christianity, so I wasn't angry or anything.

 

[InfidelRiot]

I thought my response to the question earlier was sticking it to Christianity, so I wasn't angry or anything.

Another thread.

 

[Desert Snake]

I was never a Xian. I consider myself, now, syncretic Jesusist, meaning I view Jesus as Divine. Still not Christian though, technically.