Ex-Christian here.

[tarasan]

Well you see here...there is still no prove of a rational logic behind it. Questioning of a higher being sure, that seems logical, assuming that he gives all of these laws is not however. We have no divine intervention, no items passed on to us by God.

And the question of original sin...or existence? Does that make sense? How do we over come that? We didn't chose to be, we just are.

Free will is a fantasy, just like heaven/hell, just like believing in souls and any of other life after life. As life is given it is bound to die. That is all that is to it.

this is entire speculation, you have no idea if there has not been divine intervention, and no items passed by God? I would love to see you prove that.....

ohhh and the dinosaur thing, the bible doesnt talk about everything, are we too assume Moses never went to the bathroom? just because it isnt in the bible doesnt mean that the bible says it doesnt exist.

Original Sin? that is a very complicated area it can range from your dammed to people merely have a greater desire to sin, total depravity is merely an extreme of this doctrine.

how is our existance illogical please explain?

and please dont write in my quote it makes it really hard to answer you.

 

[Orias]

this is entire speculation, you have no idea if there has not been divine intervention, and no items passed by God? I would love to see you prove that.....

Of course it is speculation, there is no prove. I have proved it, even the Catholic church will agree, they say there is the Arch of the Covinent, but they can't find it. No items of God, and the 'intervention' or interview or words of God came from man. I see no prove of a God that says all of these things.

ohhh and the dinosaur thing, the bible doesnt talk about everything, are we too assume Moses never went to the bathroom? just because it isnt in the bible doesnt mean that the bible says it doesnt exist.

I never said the bible didn't cover it, I said that my perception is different from yours. What of the world being 6000 years old? If it isn't in the bible, then it obviously looked something over in avoidance or just has nothing to say about it. It is typical of Christians to go around the point of view directed at them, when they try to prove you wrong instead of acknowledge what is said to them. Of course, you seem to differ among them.

Original Sin? that is a very complicated area it can range from your dammed to people merely have a greater desire to sin, total depravity is merely an extreme of this doctrine.

Original sin, existence. The seven deadly sins, the most common human and animal characteristics. Hmm...I wonder..

how is our existance illogical please explain?

When did I say your existence is illogical? I said if God was logical he wouldn't of created Satanists or Athiests. Sure the bible covers 'Satan' but then again the author of the bible never knew Satan, and just used the pronoun as an excuse for what is.

and please dont write in my quote it makes it really hard to answer you.

How does it make it hard to answer? I find it easy...please show some prove of your divine objects and the words of your God.

 

[tarasan]

How does it make it hard to answer? I find it easy...please show some prove of your divine objects and the words of your God.

Originally Posted by tarasan
this is entire speculation, you have no idea if there has not been divine intervention, and no items passed by God? I would love to see you prove that.....

Of course it is speculation, there is no prove. I have proved it, even the Catholic church will agree, they say there is the Arch of the Covinent, but they can't find it. No items of God, and the 'intervention' or interview or words of God came from man. I see no prove of a God that says all of these things.

ohhh and the dinosaur thing, the bible doesnt talk about everything, are we too assume Moses never went to the bathroom? just because it isnt in the bible doesnt mean that the bible says it doesnt exist.

I never said the bible didn't cover it, I said that my perception is different from yours. What of the world being 6000 years old? If it isn't in the bible, then it obviously looked something over in avoidance or just has nothing to say about it. It is typical of Christians to go around the point of view directed at them, when they try to prove you wrong instead of acknowledge what is said to them. Of course, you seem to differ among them.

Original Sin? that is a very complicated area it can range from your dammed to people merely have a greater desire to sin, total depravity is merely an extreme of this doctrine.

Original sin, existence. The seven deadly sins, the most common human and animal characteristics. Hmm...I wonder..

how is our existance illogical please explain?

When did I say your existence is illogical? I said if God was logical he wouldn't of created Satanists or Athiests. Sure the bible covers 'Satan' but then again the author of the bible never knew Satan, and just used the pronoun as an excuse for what is.

and please dont write in my quote it makes it really hard to answer you.

[/quote]

1) Divine objects arnt required to prove there is a God, and i dont see how they are logically neccessary.
2)you need to have merit to disagree with my statement on the dinosaur statement you cannot just say ohh your wrong cause i feel like it. was augustine wrong and if so why?
3) this says nothing if you have an arguement say it.
4) like i said before for true relationship you need to allow for rejection, hence satanist and athiests, again your last statement is presumptious, we are talking about logic, you have not called on it once.

 

[Orias]

1) Divine objects arnt required to prove there is a God, and i dont see how they are logically neccessary.
2)you need to have merit to disagree with my statement on the dinosaur statement you cannot just say ohh your wrong cause i feel like it. was augustine wrong and if so why?
3) this says nothing if you have an arguement say it.
4) like i said before for true relationship you need to allow for rejection, hence satanist and athiests, again your last statement is presumptious, we are talking about logic, you have not called on it once.[/quote]


If you have no prove of a physical being of God then it is illogical to say he exists.

Here is why, we as man have over come all of these things because we did things for ourselves. People say oh thank God I got an A on my report card. The definition of faith, to believe in something with no prove of it's existence.

Are you speaking of Saint Augustine? If so he was just another man who lived and died by the word of 'God'. He was right to himself, but to me he was wrong about what he 'heard'. I honestly don't know enough of the bible to continue, for I have better things to do than read contradictions, for that is all I have seen from what I have read. Fallacy and a fanatical society obsessed with a life after death.

And you keep avoiding my main point.

Where is your prove?

You continue to go around my points.

 

[tarasan]

1) Divine objects arnt required to prove there is a God, and i dont see how they are logically neccessary.
2)you need to have merit to disagree with my statement on the dinosaur statement you cannot just say ohh your wrong cause i feel like it. was augustine wrong and if so why?
3) this says nothing if you have an arguement say it.
4) like i said before for true relationship you need to allow for rejection, hence satanist and athiests, again your last statement is presumptious, we are talking about logic, you have not called on it once.

If you have no prove of a physical being of God then it is illogical to say he exists.

Here is why, we as man have over come all of these things because we did things for ourselves. People say oh thank God I got an A on my report card. The definition of faith, to believe in something with no prove of it's existence.

Are you speaking of Saint Augustine? If so he was just another man who lived and died by the word of 'God'. He was right to himself, but to me he was wrong about what he 'heard'. I honestly don't know enough of the bible to continue, for I have better things to do than read contradictions, for that is all I have seen from what I have read. Fallacy and a fanatical society obsessed with a life after death.

And you keep avoiding my main point.

Where is your prove?

You continue to go around my points.[/quote]
we were talking about logic and reason, I have as little emperical evidence for the existance of God as you have against, and seeing as in we have no good reason to not believe in God, which is what you would need if your were going to use a lack of evidence to favour you, I think its irrelevant, to be logical you would have to be open to the idea and see if its rational, but then again you would need to be a postive athiest for that...... because you would need arguements to show its absurd which is what me and wogen were doing.

If you have no desire to talk about theology then why get into this debate which I told you from the start was based on logic and doctrine?

 

[Orias]

First of all, I asked where you prove is for God.

Second, I said that GOD was illogical for creating opposition of him. If he has all of this power, then why do I question, instead of just follow blindly.

 

[tarasan]

First of all, I asked where you prove is for God.

Second, I said that GOD was illogical for creating opposition of him. If he has all of this power, then why do I question, instead of just follow blindly.

no you attached youself to a conversation that was talking about doctrine and its logic.

originally we were not the opposite of him, and ive told you many times, but i digress i think ive had my fill of your vague statements.

 

[Orias]

no you attached youself to a conversation that was talking about doctrine and its logic.

originally we were not the opposite of him, and ive told you many times, but i digress i think ive had my fill of your vague statements.

Actually, I believe I started off questioning you, and then you continued to go around my questions, like any other typical Christian would.

They are only vague to you because you do not understand.

You look at life as a problem that needs to be solved. We just are...there is nothing else to it.

 

[tarasan]

Actually, I believe I started off questioning you, and then you continued to go around my questions, like any other typical Christian would.

They are only vague to you because you do not understand.

You look at life as a problem that needs to be solved. We just are...there is nothing else to it.

im sorry i didnt mean to sound mean it is very late here, and yes I do believe life is a puzzle, i guess this is another difference betweenn u and i

 

[Orias]

im sorry i didnt mean to sound mean it is very late here, and yes I do believe life is a puzzle, i guess this is another difference betweenn u and i

No worries. There is always some form of questioning...

 

[raymkoak]

If I may: I would challenge the atheist to "prove" that any god cannot exist. Do you know something the rest of humanity doesn't? Because I contend, if you can PROVE that, then you just may be god himself.

 

[Orias]

If I may: I would challenge the atheist to "prove" that any god cannot exist. Do you know something the rest of humanity doesn't? Because I contend, if you can PROVE that, then you just may be god himself.

I just got done with this.

Why is the Christian 'God' any more believeable than the other pagan and Egyptian dieites or the deity of Set or Satan, or the supernatural demons and princes of Hell?

They are just names given to act as a puzzle peice to solve what simply is...

Natural they are ideals to try and justify reality, when the only thing that it is justifying is fantasy.

Simple...if they exist prove it, and if they existed wouldn't they prove themselves?

Hm...

 

[Azakel]

If I may: I would challenge the atheist to "prove" that any god cannot exist. Do you know something the rest of humanity doesn't? Because I contend, if you can PROVE that, then you just may be god himself.

They come in Satanist too ^_^
See here, one can't prove a negative. Saying god(any god) doesn't exist is just that and it is not up to them to have to prove anything.
Now a positive claim like God, Satan, Zeus, or what have you exist needs to be proven, till then how do we really know if they(any of them) are real.
See, I might be a Theist but even I agree that the Burden of Proof is on those that try and prove there God real. Do I have any for my beliefs...no...but the again I also don't try and prove, or force by beliefs.

 

[RevOxley_501]

Welcome, and congratulations from another ex-Christian.

 

[raymkoak]

Lol, Orias. We're gonna keep dancing round and round. I get what you're saying, you stand firm and I respect that. None of this is about proof, it's about individual journeys. We, as intelligent, rational, sane people CANNOT sweep possibilities under the rug just because of the lack of proof. If one hasn't seen something to the contrary, then ANYTHING is possible.

 

[Orias]

Lol, Orias. We're gonna keep dancing round and round. I get what you're saying, you stand firm and I respect that. None of this is about proof, it's about individual journeys. We, as intelligent, rational, sane people CANNOT sweep possibilities under the rug just because of the lack of proof. If one hasn't seen something to the contrary, then ANYTHING is possible.

I am glad you see...

However, anything is not possible in the physical realm.

In the mental universe I agree with you 100%. The mind inside is true divine. All dieites exist simply because of what we made them to be.

So in each individuals mind is a unique realm capable of holding such 'Gods' and dieties.

I however, do not have the capacity for such things because...Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!