EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Jayhawker Soule]

And yet in religion everything in their little black book is FACT, and they don't even have any reasonable proof.

That's even sillier than your thoughtless generalization.

 

[darkendless]

That's even sillier than your thoughtless generalization.

Not quite as silly as your meaningless one liners.

 

[DarkSun]

Not quite as silly as your meaningless one liners.

Wow, that's silly.

 

[DarkSun]

Okay, looking at your title, I'm just wondering how you can be agnostic and non-theistic at the same time.... Maybe you could clear that up a bit?

you know what i like? The humbleness inherent in science. They call things basically proven theories. And yet in religion everything in their little black book is FACT, and they don't even have any reasonable proof.

I'll refer to a few posts I've made in other threads. Take a look if you want. I'll post a summary right here, though.

Indeed, the main difference between traditional religion, and other schools of thought such as science and law, is that religious belief generally comes down to faith, while scientific belief comes down to experimental data. However, I would argue that the justification for such Faith is not fundamentally blind, but comes from a form of logic called "inductive reasoning", or "reasoning based on past experience".

Let me preface what I am about to say with this sentiment: people who see a beautiful rainbow or a brilliant sunset don't need to be told that these things are beautiful. They just know. This knowledge is innate, because no one needs to tell you that the sun is beautiful. A newborn child's grip on its mother and its knowledge of where to get fed is also innate knowledge: no one needs to tell the child where the milk is. Some things, we just know.

Religion is often one of these things that we inherently know to be true, just as we know that gravity is a very real force even when we don't know the scientific explanation for gravity. But other things are learned. We learn mathematics. We learn science. We learn Law. This knowledge is not intrinsic.

Which brings me to inductive and deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning, as I have said, is knowledge that is based on past experience, and an example would be religion. Deductive reasoning is knowledge which is based on evidence and data, and examples would include Law, Science and Applied Mathematics. Both are equally valid forms of reasoning; however, they are very different.

Religious beliefs are justified dually by a person's own innate experience and that individuals interpretation of that experience in retrospect. In that sense, religion is the manifestation of an individuals own inductive reasoning, because in essence, it is based on their intuitive explanation of that which they have witnessed in the world.

While religious belief is intuitive, scientific belief however, is concerned with facts, figures and objective interpretation of experimental results. It allows for testability, repeatability and criticism. This is something which inductive reasoning and religion cannot allow, which is a credit to scientific thought. However, in a sense, the deductive reasoning of science is limited by its inability to prove or disprove the knowledge established by religious belief and inductive reasoning.

But after all that, I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that religion and science both have an underlying form of reasoning. But both forms of justification are disparate, even though they can coexist if the individual permits. Yes, the only thing which can prevent the amalgamation of inductive and deductive reasoning is stubborn Fundamentalism.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/78527-love-root-all-evil-7.html

 

[JamBar85]

... Except... space is not a vacuum. And the reason we can't breath there is because the concentration of O2 in any one place is extremely low when you're in space.

But besides that, I agree with the gist of what you're saying. Denying evolution is like denying that the sky is blue. It's silly.

Kind of urinated on my joke a little but fair play, I didn't know that. Always good to learn something new.

But yeah, I don't understand a statement like "evolution is a lie". I could just as easily turn round and say " The Quaran is a lie". It's why i'm interested in this particular thread. To try and see the the OP's point of view. So far, I don't.

 

[themadhair]

To try and see the the OP's point of view.

If I told you the OP was a koranic literalist would that help you understand?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

But yeah, I don't understand a statement like "evolution is a lie". I could just as easily turn round and say " The Quaran is a lie"

You can say that, but then there would be a fatwa on your head.

 

[rageoftyrael]

okay, i'll make it simple and answer the question of how i can be an agnostic athiest. They both deal with two parts of the spectrum, knowledge and belief. I am agnostic because i don't know whether there is a god or not.(i don't think anyone can, but that's just me) I am athiest(which i only just recently admitted to, lol) because i do not believe in god.

As for your two different types of reasoning, i disagree with the entire premise, that religion is inbuilt. If this were true, why are there so many disparate religions? Why are there people like me who don't even believe at all?

I never just naturally knew. You are talking about instinct, i would say, and im pretty sure it doesn't apply to philosophical thought. Which is basically what religion comes down to. It may be true, i'll ALWAYS allow for that, to do any less would be arrogant. BUT, as far as i can tell, it isn't, and that just makes talking about god and religion a philosophical discussion that doesn't really mean anything, other than to get the juices flowing.

 

[rageoftyrael]

oh, i was adressing darksun, since i didn't deign to mention that, lol

 

[DarkSun]

As for your two different types of reasoning, i disagree with the entire premise, that religion is inbuilt. If this were true, why are there so many disparate religions? Why are there people like me who don't even believe at all?

I never just naturally knew. You are talking about instinct, i would say, and im pretty sure it doesn't apply to philosophical thought. Which is basically what religion comes down to. It may be true, i'll ALWAYS allow for that, to do any less would be arrogant. BUT, as far as i can tell, it isn't, and that just makes talking about god and religion a philosophical discussion that doesn't really mean anything, other than to get the juices flowing.

"Religion" itself is not necessarily inbuilt, but how we perceive the world is. In that way, belief or disbelief can be intrinsic traits, however I would agree that nurture comes in there somewhere as well.

The reason we have so many different "religions" is because each individual perceives the one world in a unique way. I would argue that your interpretation is no more or less valid than anyone elses.

For a long time I would have agreed with you, by the way. I would have argued that there probably isn't a God. But now I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I almost know for certain that there is.

But I can't prove this empirically. Sorreh 'bout that.

 

[rageoftyrael]

well, i don't need every random person to prove god's existence to me, it is only people who want to get up in my face and call me dumb for not believing in god that i start asking for proof, for the rest of people, i just respect their rights to their beliefs and try not to cram my own beliefs in THEIR faces. And i suppose i do see your point in what you are talking about.

 

[RomCat]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.
This is because God created a cat to be a cat
and a dog to be a dog.

 

[Father Heathen]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.

What a pathetic straw man. That isn't what evolution is, so if you don't understand or know anything about the subject, perhaps you should be silent about it.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.
This is because God created a cat to be a cat
and a dog to be a dog.

... and a zealot to be a zealot?

I have no idea what is limiting your ability to read and comprehend. I have yet to see anyone claim that dogs turn into cats, or vice versa.

Of course, it's possible that you've been reading Strobel again.

 

[Tristesse]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.
This is because God created a cat to be a cat
and a dog to be a dog.

Please don't join the conversation when it's obvious you have no idea what the theory of evolution is, or says. There aren't even words to describe how flawed your perception of evolution is. Of course cats don't turn into dogs and vice versa, evolution doesn't even address that issue. I don't even know what your trying to convey.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Please don't join the conversation when it's obvious you have no idea what the theory of evolution is, or says. There aren't even words to describe how flawed your perception of evolution is. Of course cats don't turn into dogs and vice versa, evolution doesn't even address that issue. I don't even know what your trying to convey.

He is trying to show all of us that he is God's servant, here on the internet. Come to think of it, RomCat may actually be trying to show God Himself that he is doing His work.

 

[painted wolf]

Cats are cats and dogs are dogs...
What am I?

Where does a critter with characteristics of both and cats and dogs fit in the grand scheme of things?

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.
This is because God created a cat to be a cat
and a dog to be a dog.

Fascinating. Now can you tell us what on earth this has to do with the subject of this thread? Thank you.

 

[themadhair]

Tell me RomCat - why do you believe in Catholicism when the pope has endorsed evolutionary theory?

Also, why do you believe in the bible when it is clear that the sun has never reversed in the sky?

 

[JamBar85]

A cat will never turn into a dog.
And a dog will never turn into a cat.
This is because God created a cat to be a cat
and a dog to be a dog.

That's hilarious. You should put that on a t-shirt.