Evolution My ToE

[McBell]

He claims it, so I have nothing else to go on. It is good enough for me, since I do not have the ability to know.

I strongly suspect he does not want his basis brought out and put under the same microscope he is wanting to put yours under.

Thus I predict he will either ignore me or brush me off with some sort of "You can not understand" tripe.

 

[YoursTrue]

His role would be the same as it always has been. It is our understanding of it that is different. My basis is the same as any Christians. I believe based on faith.

So do you believe by faith that God made those laws, such as gravity, and magnetism, or do you think these things came about by themselves?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So does your faith lead you to believe that Moses existed, for instance? Because Jesus certainly spoke of him.

Rather than ask you why you choose what you say is Christianity rather than Hinduism, I will ask if you believe Jesus existed? Because you claim to be Christian, but you say it's based on faith, so there are two questions I have in order to understand. Do you believe Jesus existed, and why do you have faith in what you call Christianity rather than Hinduism?

I am a Christian. You can accept that or not. I do not know of any test I was required to pass and no one told me I had to be accepted by you to believe and be Christian. Is that something new?

Isn't belief and acceptance of Christ the key criteria for Christianity? Has it changed?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So do you believe by faith that God made those laws, such as gravity, and magnetism, or do you think these things came about by themselves?

I believe that God was involved, but I have no idea how. I do not use my faith to support scientific conclusions, since science is universal and can be practiced by people of any faith. Or those with no faith.

Should I be challenging your claims about religion as if you were a criminal suspected of some wrongdoing? Is that how it is done?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I strongly suspect he does not want his basis brought out and put under the same microscope he is wanting to put yours under.

Thus I predict he will either ignore me or brush me off with some sort of "You can not understand" tripe.

I agree. The fact is that all these Christians that want to judge other Christians have no way to do it. Some of them are rather passive aggressive in their approach and employ an irrational and fallacious logic as the basis of their judgement.

They would not know a Christian from a bag of elbows, but one cannot convince them that they are not God and somehow have divine knowledge of what is in another's heart.

 

[YoursTrue]

I am a Christian. You can accept that or not. I do not know of any test I was required to pass and no one told me I had to be accepted by you to believe and be Christian. Is that something new?

Isn't belief and acceptance of Christ the key criteria for Christianity? Has it changed?

I'm just wondering what parts of the Bible you believe, like distinct things such as God's voice being heard from heaven. After all, again wondering what parts of the Bible you believe since there is a genealogy listed about Jesus, for one thing.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that God was involved, but I have no idea how. I do not use my faith to support scientific conclusions, since science is universal and can be practiced by people of any faith. Or those with no faith.

Should I be challenging your claims about religion as if you were a criminal suspected of some wrongdoing? Is that how it is done?

My question to you claiming to believe in God is if you believe He made the heavens and the earth, as it says or do you think that's a bit of fantasy also. Not judging, sorry if you're taking it that way. Since you said you believe in God and you're Christian, I wonder what you believe about Jesus. He said at Matthew 19:4 that God created them male and female from the beginning. So again, just wondering how much of Jesus' words do you put faith in?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My question to you claiming to believe in God is if you believe He made the heavens and the earth, as it says or do you think that's a bit of fantasy also. Not judging, sorry if you're taking it that way. Since you said you believe in God and you're Christian, I wonder what you believe about Jesus. He said at Matthew 19:4 that God created them male and female from the beginning. So again, just wondering how much of Jesus' words do you put faith in?

I can believe it without knowing how it was done. I can recognize that stories intended for a less knowledgeable people would not contain technical detail they would not understand anyway. I can see with my eyes and recognize that some stories have value without being literal depictions of actual events. Should I reject my knowledge or should I reject God, because what I know does not fit with Genesis?

Why do you need to know? Does my continued belief rest on your call? Are you kicking me out?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My question to you claiming to believe in God is if you believe He made the heavens and the earth, as it says or do you think that's a bit of fantasy also. Not judging, sorry if you're taking it that way. Since you said you believe in God and you're Christian, I wonder what you believe about Jesus. He said at Matthew 19:4 that God created them male and female from the beginning. So again, just wondering how much of Jesus' words do you put faith in?

Should rational explanations of the evidence be rejected based on new evidence that those explanations fail to explain? Or should they be rejected on doctrine and belief that can be anything and explain nothing, while demanding blind acceptance?

Were you gifted with senses and a mind to just blindly accept or do you think thought was intended with those gifts? Do you think a person should reject knowledge to appease the delicate sensibilities of those that do not understand the knowledge or don't want to for irrelevant personal beliefs?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm just wondering what parts of the Bible you believe, like distinct things such as God's voice being heard from heaven. After all, again wondering what parts of the Bible you believe since there is a genealogy listed about Jesus, for one thing.

I believe you when you claim you are a Christian. I don't have a test for it or a series of questions for you that have to respond to in some predetermined way to pass muster. Does knowing ever word of the Bible make one a true Christian and better than the guy that doesn't know so much. Children normally do not have the equivalent knowledge of an adult. Are Christian children less Christian or not Christian by comparison to adult Christians? Are there degrees of Christianity. That Joan is only 37.8% Christian according to her test scores? What would be the cutoff of one exists? Where do you draw the line so that I may know?

What about fruit. I have seen a lot of talk about fruit. It must be important to being a Christian. How can fruit be used? Surely bad fruit is the deal breaker, since Christians cannot sin.

 

[YoursTrue]

His role would be the same as it always has been. It is our understanding of it that is different. My basis is the same as any Christians. I believe based on faith.

Yes but do you believe God made the laws of gravitational forces, light, combustion and so forth? Because if you do (by faith I suppose, because you don't have what you call proof of God's existence), do you believe He can utilize or override those forces as He wills, or are they immutable as if one might believe He cannot use these forces that He made, put into use, produced, even contrary to what people expect or are used to? You said you are Christian so it causes me to wonder just what you do or don't believe about Christ and his beliefs. Just as you ask me or I ask you about evolution.

 

[dad]

The story of Genesis is allegory. It was written by people that did not have the same knowledge of the world that is available to you and I.

I have spent the last 35 years studying and researching biology. There is no reason to reject what I have learned and to do so without valid reason would be lying to myself. Since I also believe in God, I would have to reject that belief if it were demanded that I must maintain it based on a literal interpretation of Genesis. Since belief is not predicated on that, I can consider it allegory and all is well.

So you cannot show anything on your list that does not rest on the belief of a same nature in the past. OK.
Studying biology does not tell us what the past was like.

 

[YoursTrue]

Should rational explanations of the evidence be rejected based on new evidence that those explanations fail to explain? Or should they be rejected on doctrine and belief that can be anything and explain nothing, while demanding blind acceptance?

Were you gifted with senses and a mind to just blindly accept or do you think thought was intended with those gifts? Do you think a person should reject knowledge to appease the delicate sensibilities of those that do not understand the knowledge or don't want to for irrelevant personal beliefs?

In other words, you can't or will not say why or if you believe Christ existed and the genealogy in the book of Matthew is true.. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe you when you claim you are a Christian. I don't have a test for it or a series of questions for you that have to respond to in some predetermined way to pass muster. Does knowing ever word of the Bible make one a true Christian and better than the guy that doesn't know so much. Children normally do not have the equivalent knowledge of an adult. Are Christian children less Christian or not Christian by comparison to adult Christians? Are there degrees of Christianity. That Joan is only 37.8% Christian according to her test scores? What would be the cutoff of one exists? Where do you draw the line so that I may know?

What about fruit. I have seen a lot of talk about fruit. It must be important to being a Christian. How can fruit be used? Surely bad fruit is the deal breaker, since Christians cannot sin.

as the scriptures say, there's good fruit and rotten fruit. There's a lot in the Bible about sin but now I wonder if you think there is sin anyway and what it says about Christ and sin. The Bible doesn't say bonobos or the LCA sinned, does it? Have a good night.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes but do you believe God made the laws of gravitational forces, light, combustion and so forth? Because if you do (by faith I suppose, because you don't have what you call proof of God's existence), do you believe He can utilize or override those forces as He wills, or are they immutable as if one might believe He cannot use these forces that He made, put into use, produced, even contrary to what people expect or are used to? You said you are Christian so it causes me to wonder just what you do or don't believe about Christ and his beliefs. Just as you ask me or I ask you about evolution.

Ultimately, I too am creationist, since I believe God is the creator. But knowing what I know, I know that I do not understand how He created. I certainly do not claim to think for Him or follow literalist in placing restrictions on God or worshipping the Bible as a false idol. What I must conclude is that it is a guide to understanding and not immutable words to memorize and regurgitate.

Asking about fact-based knowledge that can be used to test hypotheses is not the same as cornering someone about their beliefs along a line that implies you have some means to judge them.

As a trained biologist, it is reasonable to expect I know more about and have a greater knowledge of evolution than average. But a Christian is a Christian without being a biblical scholar. Some of the most knowledgeable of those may not be Christian.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In other words, you can't or will not say why or if you believe Christ existed and the genealogy in the book of Matthew is true.. Thank you.

I have previously stated on here that I believe in Jesus and accept him as my Saviour. Is there more that I must do to be Christian? I do not know that Christ demanded that I reject knowledge, since it was not covered in the Bible. Air conditioners and computer programming are not mentioned in those pages either

 

[Dan From Smithville]

as the scriptures say, there's good fruit and rotten fruit. There's a lot in the Bible about sin but now I wonder if you think there is sin anyway and what it says about Christ and sin. The Bible doesn't say bonobos or the LCA sinned, does it? Have a good night.

I think there is sin. What I cannot tell you is the difference between a Christian that is sinning and a person that claims to be a Christian and is not. If I were concerned how my faith is perceived, I would not be openly expressing it to the judgement of others. I think that a false Christian could do such a good job at being super-Christian that I could not tell they were false. So much for using fruit as a metric.

If I thought that being Christian meant I must have the acceptance of others to be Christian, it makes no sense to be open about my knowledge and conclusions. I have never gotten a message to hide what I know it am. Do you think that God wants you to suppress any knowledge you can demonstrate as valid?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In other words, you can't or will not say why or if you believe Christ existed and the genealogy in the book of Matthew is true.. Thank you.

When you make your final judgement, please let me know. And pass it on to God for me, since it doesn't sound like it is looking to good for me in your eyes.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes but do you believe God made the laws of gravitational forces, light, combustion and so forth? Because if you do (by faith I suppose, because you don't have what you call proof of God's existence), do you believe He can utilize or override those forces as He wills, or are they immutable as if one might believe He cannot use these forces that He made, put into use, produced, even contrary to what people expect or are used to? You said you are Christian so it causes me to wonder just what you do or don't believe about Christ and his beliefs. Just as you ask me or I ask you about evolution.

It is my understanding that God can do what He chooses to do and doesn't need my approval or that I even be aware. What I cannot do is provide evidence to argue my beliefs as facts. My belief in Christ cannot be demonstrated by bringing the dead to life in an experiment of my own design and I am not going to explain that to someone as if I can demonstrate it. I can explain that I believe. I can even try to explain why. But I cannot show them my beliefs are facts. A person of another religion can be the believingest believer of their faith too, but in demonstrating, we share the same boat. Other Christians are there with me on the lanai deck of that boat.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes but do you believe God made the laws of gravitational forces, light, combustion and so forth? Because if you do (by faith I suppose, because you don't have what you call proof of God's existence), do you believe He can utilize or override those forces as He wills, or are they immutable as if one might believe He cannot use these forces that He made, put into use, produced, even contrary to what people expect or are used to? You said you are Christian so it causes me to wonder just what you do or don't believe about Christ and his beliefs. Just as you ask me or I ask you about evolution.

I have been answering your questions. Are you going to answer mine? I have asked a number of them.

Do you know of any instances where the laws of nature were altered in ways that defy rational explanations? Do you have any evidence that they are different here than elsewhere or in the past? Is there anything that suggests they have changed or evidence that suggests they have remained as we find them today?

Would finding that acceptance of evolution as the best explanation of the evidence mean for you that God does not exist? Or could it mean that our understanding of God and what He did is incomplete. Are you saying that we must have or can have complete understanding of God and God's motives and methods?