Evolution and Theory of Evolution

[Yerda]

I have to say that I am growing tired of correcting creationist ignorance.

Out of curiosity, do you think that you've cured any?

 

[Autodidact]

Out of curiosity, do you think that you've cured any?

Just a couple. Well, I've had a small impact on a few, teaching them an iota about how science works. As a rule they don't want to learn actual evolutionary theory, because they're afraid once they understand it, they might accept it, which would condemn them to eternal life in Hell. In other words, they believe God wants them to stay ignorant.

 

[Gabethewiking]

In other words, they believe God wants them to stay ignorant.

Hold on, isn't that the motto of our government?

 

[gnostic]

I think creationists, IDs, and theists confuse hypothesis with theory.

In science, theory is the accepted explanation of scientific knowledge, because it is backed by evidences and the rigorous and repeated tests and examination.

 

[Amadon]

To Autodidact. My mistake. The word theory has always meant belief in something unproven. Since you were speaking scientificly you are absolutley correct. Speaking scientificly I'll bet you have an I Q of proabably some where around 180. With my sorry little 140 I should have never bothered you and I am sorry. I do appreciate the kind,compassionate and tender manner you used to put me in my place. Thank you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

To Autodidact. My mistake. The word theory has always meant belief in something unproven. Since you were speaking scientificly you are absolutley correct. Speaking scientificly I'll bet you have an I Q of proabably some where around 180. With my sorry little 140 I should have never bothered you and I am sorry. I do appreciate the kind,compassionate and tender manner you used to put me in my place. Thank you.

It's not his fault you made a stupid post about a subject which you obviously knew very little about.

 

[RedOne77]

I think creationists, IDs, and theists confuse hypothesis with theory.

That is quite a statement, considering many evolutionists don't know what a theory is either. I'm not even sure I'd consider what most people think of as a theory as a hypothesis, but rather conjecture.

 

[johnhanks]

That is quite a statement, considering many evolutionists don't know what a theory is either. I'm not even sure I'd consider what most people think of as a theory as a hypothesis, but rather conjecture.

Could you please educate us, then, on what a real theory is?

 

[RedOne77]

Could you please educate us, then, on what a real theory is?

I could, but from what I've seen there is no need, I'll venture a wild guess and say that all (if not most) of you know what a theory is. All I said was that many evolutionists don't know what a theory is either, and it's true. Haven't you seen people like Ray and Kirk go around and show you all the stupid evolutionists out there? This isn't so much an attack of evolution, or evolution supporters, as it is a statement about the education system in America.

I'm not denying that many creationists don't know what a theory is, but to have it completely one-sided is pure propaganda. The vast majority of the public doesn't know what a theory is, no matter what side in the EvC debate they agree with.

 

[gnostic]

I'm not denying that many creationists don't know what a theory is, but to have it completely one-sided is pure propaganda. The vast majority of the public doesn't know what a theory is, no matter what side in the EvC debate they agree with.

No, RedOne77. Not true. The overwhelming majority of US creationists don't know what a theory is, not just many.

They looked up a dictionary and pick one of the definition. They don't bother to look a science textbooks, to know what real definition of theory is.

Why? Because American creationists have not come out of Dark Ages, because they were to believed if they understood scientific theory, they would burn in hell, from fire and brimestone. Ignorance is better than knowing.

Do you know how many time we have tried to clear up the confusion and educate the creationists and IDs about theory, not just is about evolution? So many times we have explained it. Willful ignorant and the silly thing they called the bible keep them from grasping what theory is.

Yes, the education of the US is woeful, because these same ignorant churches, preachers, evangelists, creationists can't separate science from their superstitious religions. They keep wanting to put theology in science.

Do you think evolution scientists want evolution to be taught in churches? No. Evolution is not theology. And it will never belong in the church. But the same should be said about creationism; it seriously doesn't belong in the science classroom. And until they get into their thick heads.

Huxley was right in keeping professional scientists in science classroom, and theology out of it. If church want creationism to be taught, then that's fine with me. Go for it. But they should learn about creationism either in the church (or Sunday schools) or theology subjects.

Now please explain to us what is theory in science?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Willful ignorant and the silly thing they called the bible keep them from grasping what theory is.

So you counter willful ignorance with a no less ignorant tasteless arrogance. Great ...

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So you counter willful ignorance with a no less ignorant tasteless arrogance. Great ...

To be fair, he did go on to justify this statement with the several paragraphs that followed. Perhaps those points should be addressed before writing his statements off as "ignorant tasteless arrogance".

 

[RedOne77]

No, RedOne77. Not true. The overwhelming majority of US creationists don't know what a theory is, not just many.

They looked up a dictionary and pick one of the definition. They don't bother to look a science textbooks, to know what real definition of theory is.

At least you're here to tell 'em, oust those demons of stupidity.

Why? Because American creationists have not come out of Dark Ages, because they were to believed if they understood scientific theory, they would burn in hell, from fire and brimestone. Ignorance is better than knowing.

What a shame humanity had to go through that. But hey, at least they were good for basing movies and video games off of them. So it's not like it was a complete waste of time.

Do you know how many time we have tried to clear up the confusion and educate the creationists and IDs about theory, not just is about evolution? So many times we have explained it. Willful ignorant and the silly thing they called the bible keep them from grasping what theory is.

That is hard to believe. I haven't meet many creationist adults on forums who didn't know what a theory was.

Yes, the education of the US is woeful, because these same ignorant churches, preachers, evangelists, creationists can't separate science from their superstitious religions. They keep wanting to put theology in science.

It is more complicated than that. The pitiful state of US education goes back decades and doesn't only include religious zealots as you would like it to be.

Do you think evolution scientists want evolution to be taught in churches? No. Evolution is not theology. And it will never belong in the church. But the same should be said about creationism; it seriously doesn't belong in the science classroom. And until they get into their thick heads.

Huxley was right in keeping professional scientists in science classroom, and theology out of it. If church want creationism to be taught, then that's fine with me. Go for it. But they should learn about creationism either in the church (or Sunday schools) or theology subjects.

I agree religion shouldn't be part of the science curriculum. I'm not advocating that teachers read Genesis when doing the unit on the origins of the universe/earth/life whatever.

Now please explain to us what is theory in science?

Why? Surely you must know what it is, do you not? Or are you looking to see just how ignorant the ignorant creationist is? Oh well, if you insist... When someone is working real late and is running on pure caffeine and is not thinking straight, they come up with some crazy idea that they call a scientific theory. How am I doing so far? Not bad if I say so myself, eh?

Just kidding. In science, a theory is an explanation of a specific set of facts supported by a large body of evidence that is also falsifiable, and one of the hallmarks of a scientific theory is its ability to predict.

Is it really that hard to believe that a creationist understands what a scientific theory is?

 

[tumbleweed41]

That is hard to believe. I haven't meet many creationist adults on forums who didn't know what a theory is.

There are quite a few on here.

Just kidding. In science, a theory is an explanation of a specific set of facts supported by a large body of evidence that is also falsifiable, and one of the hallmarks of a scientific theory is its ability to predict.

Is it really that hard to believe that a creationist understands what a scientific theory is?

To be honest, you seem to be the exception to the rule.
If you search through this forum you will constantly see claims of...
"If Evolution was real it would not be called a theory..."
"I will accept Evolution when is is no longer a theory and is instead called a Fact or Law."
And most commonly....
"It's only a Theory...."

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I could, but from what I've seen there is no need, I'll venture a wild guess and say that all (if not most) of you know what a theory is. All I said was that many evolutionists don't know what a theory is either, and it's true.

Sure it is - many people are clueless about science and still accept popular science.

Point is that the vast majority of people who do know about science and do know the definition of scientific theory accept evolution. You cannot honestly claim ignorance on both sides when evolution is accepted by over 95% of the world's qualified scientists (over 99% in some areas) accept some form of evolution.

Sources:
NCSE | National Center for Science Education - Defending the Teaching of Evolution in Public Schools.
Beliefs of the U.S. public about evolution and creation
Evolution Poll Gallup
CA111: Scientists reject evolution?

Are their creationists who know the definition of scientific theory? Sure there are, though I've yet to meet one who has been able to accurately define it - and the few who could have never honestly been able to define their own beliefs as scientific theory. Even you admit to being ignorant of the subject, and yet you paradoxically think that people lay Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron show how "stupid" us "evolutionists" are in the following paragraph:

Haven't you seen people like Ray and Kirk go around and show you all the stupid evolutionists out there? This isn't so much an attack of evolution, or evolution supporters, as it is a statement about the education system in America.

You refuse to answer the simple question on the definition of scientific theory, and yet you feel somehow informed enough on a subject to claim that the education system should be attacked for it? If creationists (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't know the definition of scientific theory, then sure - it's a failing of education. Teaching evolution, on the other hand, is not, because the more people understand science and the definition of valid scientific theory, the more they will accept evolution.

Problem is, if science classrooms begin teaching science better people like Kirk and Ray will call it indoctrination since it will inevitably lead more people to evolution. What they are fighting for is not to fix or improve education, just to shoe-horn their religious beliefs into science classrooms under the guise of legitimate science.

I'm not denying that many creationists don't know what a theory is, but to have it completely one-sided is pure propaganda. The vast majority of the public doesn't know what a theory is, no matter what side in the EvC debate they agree with.

But those that do know almost always accept evolution.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Haven't you seen people like Ray and Kirk go around and show you all the stupid evolutionists out there?

Wow.....I am getting really close to calling Poe on this one.

 

[Gabethewiking]

That is quite a statement, considering many evolutionists don't know what a theory is either. I'm not even sure I'd consider what most people think of as a theory as a hypothesis, but rather conjecture.

Red, Well, the Theory of Evolution is the attempt to explain the Facts of Evolution, in its most basic form of definition.

Do you think it means something else?

Is it really that hard to believe that a creationist understands what a scientific theory is?

Added: If you spend some time in Creationist circles, you will notice that a overwhelming majority has no idea what a Theory is, nor do they know what Evolution is, and certainly not the Theory of Evolution. You may be an exception, but then you would accept the Facts of Evolution, as why deny facts? Do you accept the Facts of Evolution?

 

[fantome profane]

Haven't you seen people like Ray and Kirk go around and show you all the stupid evolutionists out there?

Sure, and it is a good trick. Just take a camera out in the street and talk to a bunch of random people. Then you edit it, take out the intelligent responses and show just the dumbest things people say. But it doesn’t mean anything. Actually it just shows that some people are stupid enough to fall for a trick like this.

But statistics are very clear that the higher the education a person has, particularly if that education is in the scientific field, the more likely it is that they will accept the theory of evolution.

btw have you ever seen Rick Mercers [FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]Talking to Americans”? Check it out, it is very funny. Would you be interested in visiting the Canadian National Igloo? Mike Huckabee recommends it.

 

[Gabethewiking]

btw have you ever seen Rick Mercers [FONT=&quot]“[/FONT][youtube]seYUbVa7L7w[/youtube]
Talking to Americans”? Check it out, it is very funny. Would you be interested in visiting the Canadian National Igloo? Mike Huckabee recommends it.

fantôme, are you saying that... That... It doesn't exist? I put all my money in the stock option for my childrens future.. DAMN CANADIANS!!!

 

[RedOne77]

Sure it is - many people are clueless about science and still accept popular science.

Point is that the vast majority of people who do know about science and do know the definition of scientific theory accept evolution. You cannot honestly claim ignorance on both sides when evolution is accepted by over 95% of the world's qualified scientists (over 99% in some areas) accept some form of evolution.

Are their creationists who know the definition of scientific theory? Sure there are, though I've yet to meet one who has been able to accurately define it - and the few who could have never honestly been able to define their own beliefs as scientific theory. Even you admit to being ignorant of the subject, and yet you paradoxically think that people lay Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron show how "stupid" us "evolutionists" are in the following paragraph:

Yes, I'm aware that ruffly 95% of scientists accept evolution. But I cannot justify myself accepting such based solely on the majority; the majority isn't always right, nor does 100% acceptance equal truth. And there are scientists out there who agree with creation. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but I see the high percentage of acceptance of evolution to be that of indoctrination of evolutionary theory among the media, schools and universities. I don't see this as one big conspiracy headed by all the major scientific organizations and what not, rather a meme passed down through repeated surges in philosophical naturalism permeating academia and the colloquial culture for centuries. Especially starting at the beginning of the post modernity era.

In regards to my comment about Kirk and Ray showing 'stupid evolutionists', I'm not saying that all evolutionists are stupid. Merely pointing out that to say that creationists are the only ones who can possibly be ignorant regarding terminology such as "scientific theory" and what evolutionary theory states is outright propaganda and misinformation. I saw one video where an evolutionist proclaim that we came from horses! And another saying we came from frogs! While I don't agree with evolutionary theory, saying that the theory, or the implications of the theory (via fact of evolution), state that is wrong. Most evolutionists who debate the subject online usually know the basics, but only a small percentage of evolutionists and creationists debate this online as far as I know.

You refuse to answer the simple question on the definition of scientific theory, and yet you feel somehow informed enough on a subject to claim that the education system should be attacked for it? If creationists (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't know the definition of scientific theory, then sure - it's a failing of education. Teaching evolution, on the other hand, is not, because the more people understand science and the definition of valid scientific theory, the more they will accept evolution.

Yes, I've touched a little on why such is the case above. Just to give you a little taste of the indoctrination I've experienced; when I was around 10 my dad informed me that things evolved from wildly different organisms into what we see today, including humans. And implied such as empirical fact, and whoever didn't agree was ignorant and stupid. Well it didn't take long for the education system to pick up where he left off, once I got into middle school the teachers started preaching evolution. At least my high school biology teacher had enough sense to mention the controversy, but of course he sided with the evolutionists all the same. And it continued all the way through my education.

Problem is, if science classrooms begin teaching science better people like Kirk and Ray will call it indoctrination since it will inevitably lead more people to evolution. What they are fighting for is not to fix or improve education, just to shoe-horn their religious beliefs into science classrooms under the guise of legitimate science.

Surprisingly I actually agree. Ray and Kirk aren't equipped to talk about science, and should stick with evangelizing. Although they brought much support to creationism, which I view as a plus, they need to leave the science to creation scientists, IMO.