Evidence for Human Evolution

[leibowde84]

I think we are talking about separate things and you're confused that they are the same.

What was Santa Claus and God created from?

I am simply saying that the mind exists to think of such things. Are you saying that the mind doesn't exist?

No strawmen, please. Santa Claus is the product of a myth created around St. Nicolaus. Every part of him can be accounted for in legends that have developed over time. In other words, our capacity for abstract thought, shared by our relatives the chimpanzees (to a certain extent), gives us the ability to create new things out of what already exists.

This is a product of evolution that has, to some degree, helped our species to survive.

 

[Unification]

No strawmen, please. Santa Claus is the product of a myth created around St. Nicolaus. Every part of him can be accounted for in legends that have developed over time. In other words, our capacity for abstract thought, shared by our relatives the chimpanzees (to a certain extent), gives us the ability to create new things out of what already exists.

This is a product of evolution that has, to some degree, helped our species to survive.

Do you have a mind?

 

[Unification]

No strawmen, please. Santa Claus is the product of a myth created around St. Nicolaus. Every part of him can be accounted for in legends that have developed over time. In other words, our capacity for abstract thought, shared by our relatives the chimpanzees (to a certain extent), gives us the ability to create new things out of what already exists.

This is a product of evolution that has, to some degree, helped our species to survive.

I agree with what you're saying... are we talking about the same thing?

 

[leibowde84]

Do you have a mind?

Sure do. No reason thus far to doubt that it is caused by anything supernatural.

 

[leibowde84]

I agree with what you're saying... are we talking about the same thing?

I thought you were claiming that it's obvious for some reason that the mind is separate from the physical body.

 

[Unification]

Sure do. No reason thus far to doubt that it is caused by anything supernatural.

Of course not, it's natural to have a mind. It's within our nature. It's naturally super.

 

[Sapiens]

You must have missed all of the peer reviewed research of biophotons.

But, that's rather savvy.... provide a "blogger's" opinion from 2009 as if that settles everything.

The waka-doodles claim 30 refereed papers but provide reference to none. I tracked one down in PNAS, a respected journal. That article does not support the foolishness but merely indicates that some cells are light sensitive. In fact the word biophoton is never mentioned in the article. All the others appear to be in the waka-doodle literature like "Explore!" or in thesis written by people attending biophoton school. Again, that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Dismissed.

 

[Sapiens]

Thanks for the evidence that someone can use their mind to transform something scientifc into their own opinionated "woo" about it on a blog from 09.

Hey, you're the one with the claim, the claim is, by all evidences, bunk ... no transformation needed.

If you have real data, real papers, published in real journals by real researchers, then let's stop with the hand-waving and get down to brass tacks. If you don't, a short apology for wasting all of out time will suffice and we can go on to something more productive.

BTW: the blogger is David H. Gorski, MD, PhD, FACS, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute specializing in breast cancer surgery, where he also serves as the Medical Director of the Alexander J. Walt Comprehensive Breast Center and Cancer Liaison Physician for the American College of Surgeons Committee on Cancer. Academically, he is an Associate Professor of Surgery and Oncology at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, where he serves as Chief of the Section of Breast Surgery, and is a member of the faculty of the Graduate Program in Cancer Biology. Additionally, he serves as chairman of the board of directors for the Society for Science-Based Medicine, a group dedicated to promoting good science in medicine and opposing pseudoscience in medicine. An investigator whose primary research interests include tumor angiogenesis and the role of glutamate receptors in promoting the growth and metastasis of breast cancer, Dr. Gorski also runs an active research laboratory and has recently taken an active interest in the problems of breast cancer overdiagnosis and overtreatment.

 

[leibowde84]

Of course not, it's natural to have a mind. It's within our nature. It's naturally super.

That was a typo. There is no reason to doubt that it isn't a natural phenomenon.

 

[Unification]

The waka-doodles claim 30 refereed papers but provide reference to none. I tracked one down in PNAS, a respected journal. That article does not support the foolishness but merely indicates that some cells are light sensitive. In fact the word biophoton is never mentioned in the article. All the others appear to be in the waka-doodle literature like "Explore!" or in thesis written by people attending biophoton school. Again, that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Dismissed.

Right, there are no such things as biophotons or biophoton science.

You took something scientifical and morphed it into your "woo" by making something it's not. That's your work.

Me: biophotons.
You: biophoton "analyzer."

If you want to discuss the analyzer, some guys pharmaceutical and vaccine agenda, say so.

 

[Unification]

Hey, you're the one with the claim, the claim is, by all evidences, bunk ... no transformation needed.

If you have real data, real papers, published in real journals by real researchers, then let's stop with the hand-waving and get down to brass tacks. If you don't, a short apology for wasting all of out time will suffice and we can go on to something more productive.

BTW: the blogger is David H. Gorski, MD, PhD, FACS, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute specializing in breast cancer surgery, where he also serves as the Medical Director of the Alexander J. Walt Comprehensive Breast Center and Cancer Liaison Physician for the American College of Surgeons Committee on Cancer. Academically, he is an Associate Professor of Surgery and Oncology at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, where he serves as Chief of the Section of Breast Surgery, and is a member of the faculty of the Graduate Program in Cancer Biology. Additionally, he serves as chairman of the board of directors for the Society for Science-Based Medicine, a group dedicated to promoting good science in medicine and opposing pseudoscience in medicine. An investigator whose primary research interests include tumor angiogenesis and the role of glutamate receptors in promoting the growth and metastasis of breast cancer, Dr. Gorski also runs an active research laboratory and has recently taken an active interest in the problems of breast cancer overdiagnosis and overtreatment.

Quack, his character shows. The naive will always get on their knees.

Don't really see your point. The human has biophotons with no mass. What are you arguing? You've taken something and made it into more than what it is.

 

[Unification]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Dismissed.

Allow me to introduce you to: ScienceBlogs - "Your Friday Dose of Woo: A bio-photon here, a bio-photon there…whatever a bio-photon is"

Please do enjoy.

Is there such a thing as the enteric nervous system? Sure. Is there a cardiac nervous system and a cardiac nerve plexus? Sure.

So what? This is not evidence for your case, it is just more evidence for human evolution from a fish like form.

The quack is all about vaccinations, anything that contests that will get him all emotional with delusional, condescending rants of taking something scientific and doing his own lying about it for his vaccine agenda and image.

 

[leibowde84]

Of course not, it's natural to have a mind. It's within our nature. It's naturally super.

But, do you agree that there is no reason to assume it won't some day be explained physically in the brain, nervous system, etc., right?

 

[Sapiens]

Quack, his character shows. The naive will always get on their knees.

Don't really see your point. The human has biophotons with no mass. What are you arguing? You've taken something and made it into more than what it is.

It's your claim not mine, all I did was debunk it. Even if we grant humans producing mass-less biophotons, so what? Is that supposed to prove a brain/mind duality? If so, we're back to: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Dismissed.

His "vaccine agenda" is just that what appears to be your vaccine agenda is not supported by science.

 

[Unification]

It's your claim not mine, all I did was debunk it. Even if we grant humans producing mass-less biophotons, so what? Is that supposed to prove a brain/mind duality? If so, we're back to: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Dismissed.

His "vaccine agenda" is just that what appears to be your vaccine agenda is not supported by science.

My claim is mind-body duality. Yours isn't, and you centralize on the brain only. It's your way of clinging and desperately trying to hold onto an all materialist view with ignoring any new evidences.

A massless biophoton- an elementary virtual particle of light, a guage boson.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that, in order for something to be considered matter or physical in that sense, it must have mass.

Never knew I had a vaccine agenda, I think that your imagination is wonderful. Unfruitful reasoning with someone who twists, turns, and creates all sorts of delusive things that aren't even there in the debate. You can argue with yourself about not having a mind.

 

[Unification]

But, do you agree that there is no reason to assume it won't some day be explained physically in the brain, nervous system, etc., right?

More and more evidence suggests the mind-body are separate.

Because "consciousness" is within the physical body, doesn't mean that "consciousness" is physical/material.

 

[viole]

More and more evidence suggests the mind-body are separate.

And where is this evidence?

Because "consciousness" is within the physical body, doesn't mean that "consciousness" is physical/material.

True. But that does not entail that it is not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Unification]

And where is this evidence?



True. But that does not entail that it is not.

Ciao

- viole

Already gave one. Light behaves as both a wave and a particle. Photon's, light quanta.

Massless.

Wave-particle duality. There are plenty of tests and research about the photon. Why would the photons behave any differently within the human body? (Biophoton)

Because waves interact with matter, doesn't make the waves/light itself "matter," "physical" and having mass.

 

[Sapiens]

Already gave one. Light behaves as both a wave and a particle. Photon's, light quanta.

Massless.

Wave-particle duality. There are plenty of tests and research about the photon. Why would the photons behave any differently within the human body? (Biophoton)

Because waves interact with matter, doesn't make the waves/light itself "matter," "physical" and having mass.

That's all well and good, but all you are doing is spewing unconnected tidbits that you fail to organize into a coherent thought.

It seems as though we must use sometimes the one theory and sometimes the other, while at times we may use either. We are faced with a new kind of difficulty. We have two contradictory pictures of reality; separately neither of them fully explains the phenomena of light, but together they do.

How that supports, or even connects to the question of brain/mind duality or how the masslessness of the photon argues for spiritualism is, to say the least, unclear.

 

[Unification]

That's all well and good, but all you are doing is spewing unconnected tidbits that you fail to organize into a coherent thought.

How that supports, or even connects to the question of brain/mind duality or how the masslessness of the photon argues for spiritualism is, to say the least, unclear.

The coherent "thought" itself is light. It's the light that thinks, organizes, plans, memorizes, etc. Information stored in quanta in which the physical body and brain carries out and processes it via interaction.

I understand the mono view, the photon's and other guage bosons needing physical and material... It's both a dual interaction yet mono made possible by the Higgs field. No different within the human body.

The massless(light) interacting with mass(matter) via a field.