Evidence for an ancient earth

[FearGod]

What if the Flying Invisible Pink Unicorn really does exist? And what she hates the most? Are people who claim that the wrong god exists.

What if the Flying Spaghetti Monster really does exist? You are so going to FSM Hell for spreading your Heresy.

We have no idea what is God or how he looks like because nothing in nature is comparable to him, so for sure it isn't
kind of flying Spaghetti or anything of our imaginations.

 

[FearGod]

Your proof may be safely dismissed as pure self-delusion. Since you cannot seem to muster any of it up...

Prophecies isn't delusion.

 

[Skwim]

Even older than I am, and I'm old!!! er, I mean mature!!!

We'll decide the "mature" part, if you don't mind.

.

 

[Polymath257]

Prophecies to me is an enough proof added to the rational thinking except if we want to think of things as
happening due to coincidences.

And some things *do* happen by coincidence. In any probabilistic system, it is guaranteed to happen.

That said, provide a prophecy that
1) Was given before the event (this has to be documented in texts dated to prior to the event).
2) Was clear and precise (not something along the line of 'somebody will do something sometime').
3) Was not self-fulfilling (the person fulfilling it wasn't aware of the prophecy).
4) Was unlikely to happen (not simply common knowledge).

So, claiming wars will happen is NOT a prophecy. It is a commonplace. Wars are *always* happening. Saying that people will cause destruction is NOT a prophecy. People are *always* causing destruction. Saying that people will not follow the teachings of your religion is NOT a prophecy. Again, it is a truism. Saying a young woman will give birth to a great leader isn't a prophesy. It is a triviality.

However, a statement written in 1920, sealed in a container to be opened in 1943 that described the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, including the use of airplanes and the number of ships destroyed *would* qualify.

Do you have any *actual* prophecies? I didn't think so.

 

[psychoslice]

For me I have the proof which you blindly think of it as coincidences and you hope that God doesn't exist.

Wow you have actual proof, then show me.

 

[ChristineM]

Furthermore the thread is regarding the age of the earth and not what was there before the Big Bang . Nothing so far seems to be addressing the thread topic.

Zircon rock found in Australia has been reliably dated (using the uranium lead dating method) at 4.374 billion years old. Therefore the evidence points to the earth being at least that old. Tests on the decay of lead levels in troilite from iron meteorites, although not as accurate, extend that 4.374 billion years to between 4.53 and 4.58 billion years.

Agrigated, these measurements give an age of 4.54 billon years for the solar system, including earth.


About before the bb nothing is known only speculation and probabilities based on mathematical models, the problem being that the laws of thermodynamics on which the laws of physics are based did not begin to resolve until 10e-36 of a second after the bb and were not resolved until 10e-16 of a second after the event.

Prior to that back to 10e-43 of a second which represents the Planck epoch can be predicted from the results we know and love (the universe as we know it). Before 10e-43 nothing is known...

... to date.

While i have been interested in cosmology, knowledge of the early universe has seen 10e-10 of a second discovered.... Ain't science cool?

 

[FearGod]

And some things *do* happen by coincidence. In any probabilistic system, it is guaranteed to happen.

That said, provide a prophecy that
1) Was given before the event (this has to be documented in texts dated to prior to the event).
2) Was clear and precise (not something along the line of 'somebody will do something sometime').
3) Was not self-fulfilling (the person fulfilling it wasn't aware of the prophecy).
4) Was unlikely to happen (not simply common knowledge).

So, claiming wars will happen is NOT a prophecy. It is a commonplace. Wars are *always* happening. Saying that people will cause destruction is NOT a prophecy. People are *always* causing destruction. Saying that people will not follow the teachings of your religion is NOT a prophecy. Again, it is a truism. Saying a young woman will give birth to a great leader isn't a prophesy. It is a triviality.

However, a statement written in 1920, sealed in a container to be opened in 1943 that described the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, including the use of airplanes and the number of ships destroyed *would* qualify.

Do you have any *actual* prophecies? I didn't think so.

And do you think it's common sense that Israel should have its own state in Palestine near the end of times
and the Islamic states will turn weak after being superior, or do you think it was just a coincident that Israel
was established while Muslims became weak.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe that the earth is billions of years old, it doesn't contradict with my belief and the flood wasn't a worldwide
flood but it was in the region of Noah's tribe.

The problem remains for a regional flood of any consequence that could parallel the Biblical account.

 

[Polymath257]

And do you think it's common sense that Israel should have its own state in Palestine near the end of times
and the Islamic states will turn weak after being superior, or do you think it was just a coincident that Israel
was established while Muslims became weak.

I don't think it is the end of times. I don't think it unreasonable that a people who *thinks* they should have a homeland in the location of their ancestors might eventually get such. And I don't think it unreasonable to think that if they did so, the owners of that land would be weak at the time of the transfer.

Moslems have been getting weaker since the time of Al-Ghazali, when they were told not to study 'foreign' ideas such as philosophy and science. They had some military successes under the Ottomans, but their gradual fall was guaranteed by their treatment of new ideas.

 

[shunyadragon]

And some things *do* happen by coincidence. In any probabilistic system, it is guaranteed to happen.

That said, provide a prophecy that
1) Was given before the event (this has to be documented in texts dated to prior to the event).
2) Was clear and precise (not something along the line of 'somebody will do something sometime').
3) Was not self-fulfilling (the person fulfilling it wasn't aware of the prophecy).
4) Was unlikely to happen (not simply common knowledge).

So, claiming wars will happen is NOT a prophecy. It is a commonplace. Wars are *always* happening. Saying that people will cause destruction is NOT a prophecy. People are *always* causing destruction. Saying that people will not follow the teachings of your religion is NOT a prophecy. Again, it is a truism. Saying a young woman will give birth to a great leader isn't a prophesy. It is a triviality.

However, a statement written in 1920, sealed in a container to be opened in 1943 that described the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, including the use of airplanes and the number of ships destroyed *would* qualify.

Do you have any *actual* prophecies? I didn't think so.

Can you describe actual fulfilled prophecies?

 

[Polymath257]

Can you describe actual fulfilled prophecies?

Well, there have been several cases where the sciences have made predictions long before the events and the events came true. For example, there is currently a prediction that there will be an eclipse of the sun visible across the United States in August of this year. This predicts the time at the various locations to the minute and the duration to the second at each location.

Shall we see if this prediction is going to be fulfilled?

 

[Sapiens]

Can you describe actual fulfilled prophecies?

I prophesise that he can not.

 

[arthra]

I will defend the proposition that the evidence for a very ancient earth (more than 4 billion years) is overwhelming in science and hence, based on the evidence, the only rational conclusion is that the earth is ancient.

Yes well I'm in full agreement with you ... I may not know all the details but there is a Baha'i teaching that the universe is without beginning and endless and the the creation is an ongoing process..

"...as the Essence of Unity (that is, the existence of God) is everlasting and eternal -- that is to say, it has neither beginning nor end -- it is certain that this world of existence, this endless universe, has neither beginning nor end. Yes, it may be that one of the parts of the universe, one of the globes, for example, may come into existence, or may be disintegrated, but the other endless globes are still existing; the universe would not be disordered nor destroyed."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 180

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Presupposing god, without a good reason to do so, is deliberately placing a filter onto everything that comes next.

So you concede the point, in a creation of God, it's perfectly logical that the story of his creation that unfolds, may begin with predetermined settings and circumstances and implied histories to give the sotry context, as do the vast majority of our creative works

Just as the inclusion of dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, doesn't mean you started shooting the movie millions of years ago, that would be a rather naive conclusion wouldn't it?

 

[FearGod]

I don't think it is the end of times. I don't think it unreasonable that a people who *thinks* they should have a homeland in the location of their ancestors might eventually get such. And I don't think it unreasonable to think that if they did so, the owners of that land would be weak at the time of the transfer.

Moslems have been getting weaker since the time of Al-Ghazali, when they were told not to study 'foreign' ideas such as philosophy and science. They had some military successes under the Ottomans, but their gradual fall was guaranteed by their treatment of new ideas.

You think of it as common sense that such things should happen but I think of it as a fulfilled prophecy.

 

[Rockstar Matt]

Even Hawkins the scientist admits that the Big Bang theory had to have something already in existence for a Big Bang to occur. ( if it ever did occur at all). No getting around it. Nothingness cannot ever produce something.

Well, there's no proof that the Universe ever had a beginning, or came from nothingness. We just assumed so because that's of how we culturally think of time, that everything has a beginning and an end.

 

[Rockstar Matt]

In this case your answer should be "I don't know if God does exist", but to say that God doesn't exist
then you have to prove it to us.

No we don't. If you're claiming something to exist, then you have to prove that it does. The fact that God has never been proven to exist is proof there in itself.

 

[FearGod]

No we don't. If you're claiming something to exist, then you have to prove that it does. The fact that God has never been proven to exist is proof there in itself.

Then tell us what is that thing that is always existing otherwise you think that the universe
was a product of nothingness which doesn't make any sense either.

 

[Rockstar Matt]

Then tell us what is that thing that is always existing

I literally have no clue what you're talking about.

Otherwise you think that the universe
was a product of nothingness which doesn't make any sense either.

It actually does make sense. Quantum particles consistently appear out of nothingness, all the time.

 

[FearGod]

I literally have no clue what you're talking about.

About science.

It actually does make sense. Quantum particles consistently appear out of nothingness, all the time.

Then show me an experiment that a thing came to existence from vacuum, vacuum to me means nil, no energy
of any source, easier to turn a dead to alive than speaking nonsense, but anyway I'm all ears to your views
if it makes sense.