Every Word, Every Letter in the Quran is up for Criticism

[kai]

You insist on confusing things. It's not my job to catch the criminals, punish them...etc. Every one is in his position. Treating the ill doesn't mean canceling the laws pf punishments.

i am not confusing things, i live in a country thats moral standing is based around the humane treatment of other human beings, no matter who they are, we do not have capital punishment nor corporal punishment, and that i am very proud of, and that i believe is because our laws are made by people now and on going process, and i call it medieval because such punishments used to be part of our legal system in medieval days but we have progressed we no longer have trial by ordeal or hang thieves , or even hang draw and quarter traitors. someone once said its a measure of a civilization how it treats its prisoners.

 

[Sahar]

Well....and I am proud of my Islam.

 

[kai]

Well....and I am proud of my Islam.

well........thats good, i know that and respect you for that, but tell me are these punishments Quranic, or have they been instituted by scholars?

i mean is this Islam? or is it Iran?

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | End death by stoning, Iran urged

 

[Sahar]

well........thats good, i know that and respect you for that, but tell me are these punishments Quranic, or have they been instituted by scholars?

Of course anything should have its basis in the Qur'an or the Sunnah.

i mean is this Islam? or is it Iran?

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | End death by stoning, Iran urged[

Yes, ahadeeth mentioned it. Majority of scholars agree that it's hadd i.e. a fixed penalty that can not be changed or modified. Others have another opinion like I stated before.

 

[kai]

Of course anything should have its basis in the Qur'an or the Sunnah.

Yes, ahadeeth mentioned it. Majority of scholars agree that it's hadd i.e. a fixed penalty that can not be changed or modified. Others have another opinion like I stated before.

then i could never embrace such a religion, and is it an accident that the child in your picture carries a stone?

 

[Sahar]

then i could never embrace such a religion

Then,
"Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)"

"Indeed, Allāh leaves astray whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]"
َQur'an

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Then,
"Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)"

"Indeed, Allāh leaves astray whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]"
َQur'an

God as the doer of all things is no God: its pantheism.

P.S. Great picture. Where's the one with the little boy wearing a mock suicide belt?

 

[maro]

The Hadith are traditions and actions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Both created decades after the founder's advent. Both subject to criticism of authenticity if from nothing else, mere human error.

As far as i know , the authenticity of Al hadith al Sahih is something agreed upon by the scholars....

No part of the Quran renders others redundant. But it is a very good point raised by you that Muslims have this misconception about "Nasikh" and "Manshookh" and believe that some verses of the Quran are redundant

I don't think al naskh is a misconception either . As far as i know it's also something agreed upon by the Sunni scholars . Only the ahmadya deny it...

[2:106] None of our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?

Allah says in the Quran that He created life. How could He have created life? Would that not be tantamount to Him creating Himself?

Can you quote the particular verse that says Allah created life ?

well i hope they use someone qualified to do the amputations , and stoning, wow!

As for the amputation , cutting the thieves' hands , i say this can't be applied except in a prospered society where the basic needs of all the individuals are perfectly satisfied..It's well known that this Hadd was once dropped by Omar , the second caliph when there was a famine...
For example , I guess no scholar would ever argue that the hadd of robbery should be applied on a major sect of the egyptian society that lives in dreadful poverty nowadays..however ,i would be more than happy to see the amputation of the hands of the big thieves that suck the blood of the peole for their own greed....Cutting their hands will then be more than merciful to such viruses ,imo

I would like to say that the application of any Hadd in Islam should be determined by the fiqh of the reality "awareness and understanding "..anything from the shariah that is being applied blindly and without fiqh can go against the major objectives of the shariah ,and turn to be harmful from where it was meant to be useful...

 

[kai]

As for the amputation , cutting the thieves' hands , i say this can't be applied except in a prospered society where the basic needs of all the individuals are perfectly satisfied..It's well known that this Hadd was once dropped by Omar , the second caliph when there was a famine...
For example , I guess no scholar would ever argue that the hadd of robbery should be applied on a major sect of the egyptian society that lives in dreadful poverty nowadays..however ,i would be more than happy to see the amputation of the hands of the big thieves that suck the blood of the peole for their own greed....Cutting their hands will then be more than merciful to such viruses ,imo

I would like to say that the application of any Hadd in Islam should be determined by the fiqh of the reality "awareness and understanding "..anything from the shariah that is being applied blindly and without fiqh can go against the major objectives of the shariah ,and turn to be harmful from where it was meant to be useful...

then this amputation thing is open to the interpretation of who ever wields the sword , i don't think Not4me really answered my question whether it was Quranic, or is it man made this capital and corporal punishment.

 

[maro]

then this amputation thing is open to the interpretation of who ever wields the sword

no ,not by whoever wields a sword , but by the scholars of fiqh...

 

[kai]

no ,not by whoever wields a sword , but by the scholars of fiqh...

Ok then its the scholars of fiqh in each country that permit the wielding of the sword according to their own scholarly conclusions.It is not directly commanded by Allah in the Quran?

 

[Father Heathen]

That is a very sad and disturbing image. Instilling violence and fanaticism into children before they even have any idea what it means. That is no way for a child to live and grow up.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Muslims weilding swords in this day and age is wrong and not Islam. Come to think of it I never did express my opinion of the so-called Jihad that mainstream Islam seems to want to wage.

So many threads so little time.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-prophecy-nuclear-holocaust-surah-homaza.html

"Snake ...its showtime ... Ocelot wants you."

Nuclear prophecy in the Quran. I believe you asked for it Kai.

 

[kai]

That is a very sad and disturbing image. Instilling violence and fanaticism into children before they even have any idea what it means. That is no way for a child to live and grow up.

i find it extraordinary that people dont see the harm that pictures like this do to their religion and any cause they think they are representing. i find personally find it nauseating propoganda , and a clear representation of child indoctrination.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Can you quote the particular verse that says Allah created life ?

Surah 67.2 of the Quran:
YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-
PICKTHAL: Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,

 

[Father Heathen]

i find it extraordinary that people dont see the harm that pictures like this do to their religion and any cause they think they are representing. i find personally find it nauseating propoganda , and a clear representation of child indoctrination.

Disgusting and shameful, isn't it?

 

[TashaN]

Allah says in the Quran that He created life. How could He have created life? Would that not be tantamount to Him creating Himself?

Allah can create several lives, not only [a]life. He is out of time. He also creates time and he can end it anytime he wants.

 

[TashaN]

**MOD POST**

This is the Quranic Deabtes area, and the thread is about the criticism of the Quran, so please stay on topic​

 

[Rolling_Stone]

That is a very sad and disturbing image. Instilling violence and fanaticism into children before they even have any idea what it means. That is no way for a child to live and grow up.

That's twice I found myself in agreement with you. This is beginning to scare me.

Whenever we speak of God, we either speak of unity or of something divisive—some kind of reality or entity that is distinct from our human existence. Even to speak of God as a unifying presence is divisive because it puts “Him” outside ourselves: something to attain rather than realize. Rather than say that God is in space, we might more justly say that (edit) "God is nowhere but in himself; in fact, rather than say that God is in space [we] might more justly say that space and matter are in God.” (This is from Averroes, a Muslim philosopher respected by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.) With this understanding, there is nothing we can do to another that we do not also do unto ourselves or God. With this understanding, there little danger of fanaticism flying airplanes into buildings or people strapping bombs on themselves in order to please God by ridding the world of political opponents and “infidels.” If you hate another, you hate Allah and yourself; if you kill a jew, you kill a part of Allah and yourself.

Edit: If Averroes is right, and I believe he is, the Koran and every other "holy scripture" is superfluous.