Every country should be run by secular governments

[Kirran]

Hitler studied to be a Catholic priest for a while. He adopted the swastika that adorned the catholic institution where he stayed for his party. He claimed to believe to have been spared for a higher purpose from the dangerous situations that he lived in the WW 1 war front. The SS beltlocks invoked God's name.

I just don't know what else you would want for evidence.

The fact that he said 'Why did the religion of Germany have to be Christianity with all its meekness and flabbiness? Why couldn't it have been Islam?' kind of dissuades me from seeing him as a Christian.

I think he used whatever propaganda he could.

It seems he was rather more sympathetic to Christianity in his youth, but turned against it towards the end of his life.


Hitler was transcribed as saying: "Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers [...] then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world."

According to Speer, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For me, it's frustrating to have communism or Nazism held up as examples of either secularism or atheism (in the case of communism)

The Nazis weren't even secular, and the Communist were not advancing a secular or atheist agenda.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler studied to be a Catholic priest for a while. He adopted the swastika that adorned the catholic institution where he stayed for his party. He claimed to believe to have been spared for a higher purpose from the dangerous situations that he lived in the WW 1 war front. The SS beltlocks invoked God's name.

I just don't know what else you would want for evidence.

Him saying his actions were to bring about a moral and Christian Germany? Which he did?

 

[interminable]

Because it inherently requires a bias to that religion.

Iran wants nuclear weapons. Yemen is raping little girls, Saudi Arabia is beheading people in the streets. Meanwhile Switzerland is hosting the Noble Peace prize and Japan is inventing robots that will one day outpreform human beings in sports events.

Secular societies as well as governments tend to make a better place to live than religious ones.

Would u please tell me that how many countries were attacked by the US????

Did we use atomic bomb?

We weren't after atomic bomb because it's forbidden. Do u have this scruple not to use it????

Besides u wanna say there is no rape in western countries
There is no suicide and ....???

 

[interminable]

That isn't tolerance, that's the complete opposite. I'm so thankful I don't live under a theocracy.

This is one of the laws in Islam.
U should be careful when wanna convert to Islam. First think and study and consult and have conversation with the knowledgeable men then accept it if u think it's rational. But if u accepted u can not leave it so easily because some Jews if I'm not mistaken decided to convert to Islam then comeback to their original religion saying that Islam was bad or irrational and....

By death punishment for this they gave up their plan.

If u think about famous people and their effect on their followers u can understand it

 

[danieldemol]

Every country should be run by secular governments, providing justice to all population equally and equitably. Only then peace would be established in the world.
That suits Ahmadiyya Islam, the reformed Islam or its form in the times of Muhammad.

Regards

The trouble is, in order for secular governments to function peacefully, people require the freedom to state those inconvenient truths which may be considered insulting to the majority. Mirza Gulam Ahmed lobbied the British govenment in India requesting that laws be reintroduced making insult to religion a punishable crime.

Today you can see how Ahmadis in Pakistan and elsewhere have been oppressed using insult to religion as a pretext.

By comparison His holiness Baha'u'llah has abrogated the law of insult to religion, the Baha'i teachings state that if a person's speech is as poison to you, you must be as a healing medicine to him. See then the wisdom of Baha'u'llah compared to Mirza Gulam Ahmed.

Baha'i also favour elected governments.

 

[LuisDantas]

The fact that he said 'Why did the religion of Germany have to be Christianity with all its meekness and flabbiness? Why couldn't it have been Islam?' kind of dissuades me from seeing him as a Christian.

I was not even aware of that saying, but you sure are interpreting it differently from how I would.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So all your whining about the world can be compared to a shirt button coming off?

I DO try to make the world a better place. I DO think many problems in the world are FIXABLE. I DON'T just go around thinking God should just wipe everyone out because there are problems.

Sir they could have at least hide their conversion and live in Iran.

Who told minorities are oppressed in my Country???

Your previous sentence answers your last.

Actions speak loader than words.

Being an evil Christian doesn't mean you aren't a Christian. A rotten apple is still an apple.

Besides can a Muslim be president in the US?

People confused for Muslims can, apparently.

That he took advantage of Christianity when it was politically useful is very different from saying he was Christian-influenced.

I would say Jesus wasn't even cold yet before the apostles were using Jesus to gain social power they didn't have in the beginning.

But I really don't see that link for Nazism.

There's an entire book called Revelation in the bible, the sole purpose of which is to glorify exterminating nearly everyone on the planet.

 

[interminable]

I DO try to make the world a better place. I DO think many problems in the world are FIXABLE. I DON'T just go around thinking God should just wipe everyone out because there are problems.

Your previous sentence answers your last.


Being an evil Christian doesn't mean you aren't a Christian. A rotten apple is still an apple.


People confused for Muslims can, apparently.

I would say Jesus wasn't even cold yet before the apostles were using Jesus to gain social power they didn't have in the beginning.


There's an entire book called Revelation in the bible, the sole purpose of which is to glorify exterminating nearly everyone on the planet.

Those who are born Jew or Christian or zoroastrian don't need to hide anything.

I said that for Muslims that if they convert to other religions they should hide it.

 

[Kirran]

I was not even aware of that saying, but you sure are interpreting it differently from how I would.

How would you do so?

 

[Kirran]

Those who are born Jew or Christian or zoroastrian don't need to hide anything.

I said that for Muslims that if they convert to other religions they should hide it.

Would you say you respect human rights?

 

[LuisDantas]

How would you do so?

It seems quite clear to me. Hitler favored a martial posture and saw Islaam as supporting such a posture better than Catholicism.

How that makes him "secular" I just don't know.

 

[Kirran]

It seems quite clear to me. Hitler favored a martial posture and saw Islaam as supporting such a posture better than Catholicism.

How that makes him "secular" I just don't know.

Well it means he wasn't exactly basing his views in Christianity. It means he was using these religions as political tools. At least later in his career.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well it means he wasn't exactly basing his views in Christianity. It means he was using these religions as political tools. At least later in his career.

Are you aware of how often sincere Catholics disapprove of the doctrine?

It does not make a lot of sense, but it happens very often indeed.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Out of interest though, do you consider Secular Humanism to be a product of Christianity?

Mostly. But then again, I consider Christianity a product of Judaism. So...

 

[paarsurrey]

Well it means he wasn't exactly basing his views in Christianity. It means he was using these religions as political tools. At least later in his career.

I agree with one.
Regards

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It seems quite clear to me. Hitler favored a martial posture and saw Islaam as supporting such a posture better than Catholicism.

How that makes him "secular" I just don't know.

I don't think it necessarily makes him non-secular though.
In some ways he was ruthlessly pragmatic, and he was talking more about the psyche of the German people than any particular government rule. I wouldn't count him as 'secular' in any sense, far from it, I just don't see evidence for this in his 'Christian' beliefs, or comments regarding Islam.

Point instead to peaceful religious organisations banned under the Nazi regime, including Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Baha'i, as well as laws instituted against particular aspects of cultural/religious groups such as the gypsies and Jews.

Thoughts @Nietzsche ?

 

[Augustus]

Mostly. But then again, I consider Christianity a product of Judaism. So...

That's exactly the point, beliefs tend not to appear out of thin air, but through gradual evolution, adaptation and combination of existing beliefs.

This is part of the reason why Secular Humanism is predominantly a Western ideology and is rare outside the West. Even the concept 'secular' is an offshoot of Christianity.

Humanism wasn't a rejection of Christianity but a gradual evolution/hybridisation of it. Just like Christianity was a gradual evolution/hybridisation of Judaism. And Judaism...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's exactly the point, beliefs tend not to appear out of thin air, but through gradual evolution, adaptation and combination of existing beliefs.

This is part of the reason why Secular Humanism is predominantly a Western ideology and is rare outside the West. Even the concept 'secular' is an offshoot of Christianity.

Humanism wasn't a rejection of Christianity but a gradual evolution/hybridisation of it. Just like Christianity was a gradual evolution/hybridisation of Judaism. And Judaism...

Whilst respectful of history and it's lessons both the Christian roots of secularism and the Christian background of my own upbringing don't leave me in any way a Christian sympathizer.

This will sound more blunt than I mean it to, so apologies, but what is the point you're trying to make?

 

[Augustus]

Whilst respectful of history and it's lessons both the Christian roots of secularism and the Christian background of my own upbringing don't leave me in any way a Christian sympathizer.

This will sound more blunt than I mean it to, so apologies, but what is the point you're trying to make?

Just that beliefs are a product of their cultural environment and it is fairly easy to (roughly or specifically) identify how they evolve over time.