Even a moral person will go to Hell.

[Papersock]

I watched some of a Christian movie the other day. In it a character said something like this: "Even if a person lives a moral life, if he doesn't have Jesus in his life, you and I both know he will go to Hell when he dies."

Why is this and how is that fair?

 

[kadzbiz]

It's not fair, but the bible says it is so. I feel that if there is a God, He understands my reservations to believing in Him and as long as I live my life in a Christianlike fashion, I believe that I will be accepted into Heaven if it exists.

 

[Vassal]

If you sinned only a couple times, then maybe this kind of argument would be valid, but people sin countless times. The law requires that you obey it, so how can you gain extra credit by only doing what was already required of you? Morality isn't a curved scale. If you sin then you are failing to do what you were required to do and deserve punishment, and since everyone continually sins we all deserve punishment. God is merciful and willing to forgive anyone who wants it, but to want forgiveness means you must acknowledge that you've sinned, and to acknowledge you've sinned means to acknowledge that you deserve punishment, and to acknowledge that you deserve punishment means you acknowledge the only way to be saved is through God's mercy, Jesus Christ. This is why I find Islam particularly funny, as they're like "We don't believe Jesus is God, he's just a sinless prophet of God. Thats why we totally ignore everything he said!".

 

[Papersock]

This is why I find Islam particularly funny, as they're like "We don't believe Jesus is God, he's just a sinless prophet of God. Thats why we totally ignore everything he said!".

I'm sure that's a direct quote from the Qur'an, too.

 

[Doc]

Why is this and how is that fair?

It isn't so, but if it were, it would be absolutely unfair.

This was one of the main questions that drove me away from religion years ago. I could not understand how a moral person would go to hell just because they held theological differences from God.

IF indeed this were so and I would go to hell for being moral but disbelieving, then I would go to hell freely. Why would I want to spend my eternity with such a guy?

 

[Seraphiel]

Papersock: Remember.... It is a movie

 

[Bishka]

Why is this and how is that fair?

It's not, but that isn't what the Bible says, and I particularly think there is more that God has to say on the subject.

 

[kmkemp]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that? There's no way anyone would willingly choose hell no matter what the alternative was. To say that shows a great lack of comprehension for eternity and the torture you will face in hell, not to mention a twisted view of God and heaven.

 

[morning-star]

I watched some of a Christian movie the other day. In it a character said something like this: "Even if a person lives a moral life, if he doesn't have Jesus in his life, you and I both know he will go to Hell when he dies."

Why is this and how is that fair?

I have to agree with you there that is rather cruel and unjust but if you ever read the bible there is a lot of cruel and unjust things in it...it's the way it works by putting fear into people.

 

[Panda]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that? There's no way anyone would willingly choose hell no matter what the alternative was. To say that shows a great lack of comprehension for eternity and the torture you will face in hell, not to mention a twisted view of God and heaven.

I have to laugh every time a Christian thinks that such a God will be nice and treat them well in heaven. No I would not miss the presence of such a being as your God. If God really is the way he is described in the Bible then I would not trust such a being keep his word to us. Of course as I don't believe such a God exists i won't let it bother me and I will live my life without wasting it worrying in case there might be another one after it.

 

[Super Universe]

What father builds a home for His children to live free and grow and experience and then punishes them for their choices?

The priests have put God in a very small box. God is not angry. This is not possible. God has no desire to punish us for our free will choices because our choices are insignificant. There is no harm that any of us can do to a soul so stop taking this material existence so seriously. God does not throw away His created energy.

The universe is designed much smarter than that. It is like a great university, you can't get to the next level until you've learned and matured on your own. There are no "dropouts".

 

[michel]

I watched some of a Christian movie the other day. In it a character said something like this: "Even if a person lives a moral life, if he doesn't have Jesus in his life, you and I both know he will go to Hell when he dies."

Why is this and how is that fair?

As far as I am concerned, it doesn't work that way, and whomsoever goes round preaching that needs to think a little bit.....................

 

[Azakel]

As far as I am concerned, it doesn't work that way, and whomsoever goes round preaching that needs to think a little bit.....................

I agree with what Michel says here and others that say similar things. Because what about those people that live in Countries that can't or read the message of God. The will go there whole life with out it but if life a moral life still go to hell because there human gov. outlawed it.........no I don't think so:no:

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You can find a back up for almost any thing in the Bible.

However it is solely Gods prerogative to make these decisions.
I do not believe any one goes to hell... I do not believe in Heaven and Hell as places.

We return to God when we die shorn of our sin.

I do not propose to give a full answer here, as I have done so on these forums many times before.

 

[Nanda]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that?

No, we don't really believe that, because we don't believe in god or hell in the first place, so really, it's a hypothetical non-issue for us.

 

[ChristineES]

The truth is that no person on earth knows what will happen to anyone else. Only God knows that. It is presumptious for me to say that anyone will or will not go to "hell"*. There are things that only God knows. That is the biggest reason I would never say to anyone "you are going to hell". Who can even imagine what God is thinking? He is much greater than we are and knows all. There are some things left unsaid.

*I don't believe that hell is some fiery pit but a separation from God, which is self-imposed.

 

[jonny]

I watched some of a Christian movie the other day. In it a character said something like this: "Even if a person lives a moral life, if he doesn't have Jesus in his life, you and I both know he will go to Hell when he dies."

Why is this and how is that fair?

In order to know whether or not this is "fair," we have to define what it means to "have Jesus in his life." Without Christ, none of us could be saved. The good news is that Christ came down and took our sins upon him so that we can be saved.

The story The Mediator by Boyd K. Packer, one of the apostles of the LDS church, is a great parable of how this works.

There once was a man who wanted something very much. It seemed more important than anything else in his life. In order for him to have his desire, he incurred a great debt.

He had been warned about going into that much debt, and particularly about his creditor. But it seemed so important for him to do what he wanted to do and to have what he wanted right now. He was sure he could pay for it later.

So he signed a contract. He would pay it off some time along the way. He didn’t worry too much about it, for the due date seemed such a long time away. He had what he wanted now, and that was what seemed important.

The creditor was always somewhere in the back of his mind, and he made token payments now and again, thinking somehow that the day of reckoning really would never come.

But as it always does, the day came, and the contract fell due. The debt had not been fully paid. His creditor appeared and demanded payment in full.

Only then did he realize that his creditor not only had the power to repossess all that he owned, but the power to cast him into prison as well.

“I cannot pay you, for I have not the power to do so,” he confessed.

“Then,” said the creditor, “we will exercise the contract, take your possessions, and you shall go to prison. You agreed to that. It was your choice. You signed the contract, and now it must be enforced.”

“Can you not extend the time or forgive the debt?” the debtor begged. “Arrange some way for me to keep what I have and not go to prison. Surely you believe in mercy? Will you not show mercy?”

The creditor replied, “Mercy is always so one-sided. It would serve only you. If I show mercy to you, it will leave me unpaid. It is justice I demand. Do you believe in justice?”

“I believed in justice when I signed the contract,” the debtor said. “It was on my side then, for I thought it would protect me. I did not need mercy then, nor think I should need it ever. Justice, I thought, would serve both of us equally as well.”

“It is justice that demands that you pay the contract or suffer the penalty,” the creditor replied. “That is the law. You have agreed to it and that is the way it must be. Mercy cannot rob justice.”

There they were: One meting out justice, the other pleading for mercy. Neither could prevail except at the expense of the other.

“If you do not forgive the debt there will be no mercy,” the debtor pleaded.

“If I do, there will be no justice,” was the reply.

Both laws, it seemed, could not be served. They are two eternal ideals that appear to contradict one another. Is there no way for justice to be fully served, and mercy also?

There is a way! The law of justice can be fully satisfied and mercy can be fully extended—but it takes someone else. And so it happened this time.

The debtor had a friend. He came to help. He knew the debtor well. He knew him to be shortsighted. He thought him foolish to have gotten himself into such a predicament. Nevertheless, he wanted to help because he loved him. He stepped between them, faced the creditor, and made this offer.

“I will pay the debt if you will free the debtor from his contract so that he may keep his possessions and not go to prison.”

As the creditor was pondering the offer, the mediator added, “You demanded justice. Though he cannot pay you, I will do so. You will have been justly dealt with and can ask no more. It would not be just.”

And so the creditor agreed.

The mediator turned then to the debtor. “If I pay your debt, will you accept me as your creditor?”

“Oh yes, yes,” cried the debtor. “You save me from prison and show mercy to me.”

“Then,” said the benefactor, “you will pay the debt to me and I will set the terms. It will not be easy, but it will be possible. I will provide a way. You need not go to prison.”

And so it was that the creditor was paid in full. He had been justly dealt with. No contract had been broken. The debtor, in turn, had been extended mercy. Both laws stood fulfilled. Because there was a mediator, justice had claimed its full share, and mercy was fully satisfied.

As for the idea of no mercy being extended to a moral person, I find this to be one of the greatest lies told by Christianity.

 

[Darkness]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that? There's no way anyone would willingly choose hell no matter what the alternative was. To say that shows a great lack of comprehension for eternity and the torture you will face in hell, not to mention a twisted view of God and heaven.

Perhaps once I was in hell, fear would change my mind. However, I have a choice now to do the morally right thing and tell your God He is an evil bast*rd. Tell me, right now, if Satan was in command of the Universe and wanted you to torture Jesus once a day for all eternity and you will have a decent life, would you do it? The alternative is hell for all eternity.

 

[jonny]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that? There's no way anyone would willingly choose hell no matter what the alternative was. To say that shows a great lack of comprehension for eternity and the torture you will face in hell, not to mention a twisted view of God and heaven.

Would you disagree that where we end up in the end is where we choose to be? Whether you believe in heaven or hell or degrees of glory, in the end you are where you wanted to be.

 

[Ori]

I watched some of a Christian movie the other day. In it a character said something like this: "Even if a person lives a moral life, if he doesn't have Jesus in his life, you and I both know he will go to Hell when he dies."

Why is this and how is that fair?

Scare people enough and they'll do anything you want.