Europe aids Iran, Russia and China in looming arms race

[Heyo]

So are you saying we should nuclear arm villains because there are other villains in the world? How does that make sense, the less nuclear armed villains the better.

The nuclear armed villains won't listen to your plead to disarm. They don't have to, they have nukes.
You only get them to the negotiating table when you have an offer to disarm yourself.

 

[danieldemol]

The nuclear armed villains won't listen to your plead to disarm. They don't have to, they have nukes.
You only get them to the negotiating table when you have an offer to disarm yourself.

I'm still failing to see how nuclear arming more villains will help here.
There were other villains in Hitler's time too, would you have pleaded for Hitler to become nuclear armed?

Arguing for the proliferation of nuclear weapons amongst villains just won't stabilise the world. Russia already has enough nukes to counterbalance US nukes, arguing for every bloodlusting tom duck and Harry to have one will only heighten and complicate nuclear tension in the world

 

[Heyo]

I'm still failing to see how nuclear arming more villains will help here.
There were other villains in Hitler's time too, would you have pleaded for Hitler to become nuclear armed?

Arguing for the proliferation of nuclear weapons amongst villains just won't stabilise the world. Russia already has enough nukes to counterbalance US nukes, arguing for every bloodlusting tom duck and Harry to have one will only heighten and complicate nuclear tension in the world

It will make nuclear tension more complicated, but it also will (hopefully) decrease conventional wars. The US has never attacked a nation with nuclear weapons. Iran having nukes will make it safer from conventional attacks.

There is, of course, the option of threatening to gain nuclear power to get the villain to the negotiation table. It worked with Obama who agreed to the Iran deal. But Trump left that deal so the Iranians have to step up their game if they don't want to be the next Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.
And every power on earth that doesn't want to see the US turn into an empire that annexes countries willy-nilly has to help Iran.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Wouldn't it be just like taking out a loan to buy a car, and then never making payments to the bank?

...Except this was a $20,000,000,000 oil industry loan...

That analogy would only work if you owned the car to begin with.

 

[Revoltingest]

Identifying liberty here is a tough one. Whose, and what kind, and if a certain kind is or not... it's hard.

If Ameristan were willing to negotiate wisely, with a
broad sense of justice, & in good faith, I don't see
that we need to risk war with Iran. But we don't
have that kind of leader. Obama, might've been,
but even he fell short on addressing the fundamental
problems we have with Iran.
Trump has been bad, but at least he hasn't started
a war with Iran (yet). He's not the unmitigated
disaster that Eisenhower & Reagan were towards
Iran.

 

[Cooky]

That analogy would only work if you owned the car to begin with.

I'll meet you halfway, and say it's more like you owned all the raw plastics and metals, and the bank payed for a team to fabricate those raw materials into a car for you, and then you tell the bank thanks for the car, now **** off.

...That's playing dirty IMO.

 

[columbus]

If Ameristan were willing to negotiate wisely, with a
broad sense of justice, & in good faith, I don't see
that we need to risk war with Iran.

To expand on this just a bit.
The USA doesn't just have the world's most powerful and expensive military on planet earth. We're bigger than the next top five put together.

We are the fundamental cause of the global arms race. And we're also the biggest arms exporter.
The U.S. government and the people who vote them into power, are the main reason that so much of global resources are invested in military hardware and not human needs like potable water, education, and political reform.

To go back to the OP, we made Iran what it is more than any other influence, including Islam.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

To expand on this just a bit.
The USA doesn't just have the world's most powerful and expensive military on planet earth. We're bigger than the next top five put together.

We are the fundamental cause of the global arms race. And we're also the biggest arms exporter.

Skeptical of those claims.

The U.S. government and the people who vote them into power, are the main reason that so much of global resources are invested in military hardware and not human needs like potable water, education, and political reform.

To go back to the OP, we made Iran what it is more than any other influence, including Islam.

Agree with those claims.

 

[Heyo]

I'll meet you halfway, and say it's more like you owned all the raw plastics and metals, and the bank payed for a team to fabricate those raw materials into a car for you, and then you tell the bank thanks for the car, now **** off.

...That's playing dirty IMO.

Let's expand this a bit further:
It's like you owning all the raw material and the Bank People built the assembly hall. They give you a new car every few years and sell all the other cars and make a load of money. (And they got that deal by bribing the people who struck the deal.)
One day you want your raw materials back. You offer the Bank People to pay for the assembly hall but the raw materials are so much more worth to them than the assembly hall that they refuse.

Now, who was playing dirty?

BP and Iran: The Forgotten History

 

[Twilight Hue]

And in the meantime, those and those like you support the Eastern Authoritarian Bloc... because... Trump.

I can't figure out the logic in that either.

 

[columbus]

Skeptical of those claims.

Google is your friend.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'll meet you halfway, and say it's more like you owned all the raw plastics and metals, and the bank payed for a team to fabricate those raw materials into a car for you, and then you tell the bank thanks for the car, now **** off.

...That's playing dirty IMO.

Let's just skip the analogies. I don't support economic exploitation of resources by Western corporations that are essentially stealing them from developing countries.

 

[Milton Platt]

A United Nations ban on the sale of weapons to Iran is set to expire in mid-October despite a last-ditch effort by the Trump administration to renew it.

Without the arms ban, Russia and China are poised to bolster their already close military alliances with Iran, selling the country stockpiles of advanced weapons that will be available to the Islamic Republic's terror proxy groups, including Hezbollah in Lebanon. Both countries have sold Tehran arms in the past—including aiding its nuclear endeavors—and have been clear in recent months about their desire to amplify the relationship.

European nations have already rejected the United States' bid to indefinitely extend the arms embargo and are now opposing further efforts to restore all sanctions on Iran that were lifted under the 2015 nuclear agreement.

The stalemate at the U.N. Security Council has decimated the United States' historically close relationship with France, Germany, and the U.K.

Looming Middle East Arms Race Sparks Fear of Unprecedented Regional War

...What is your position, and why?

The United States is no longer a part of that treaty. They withdrew, didn't they? The U.S. now has no say in extending or otherwise modifying the treaty.

 

[columbus]

Let's just skip the analogies. I don't support economic exploitation of resources by Western corporations that are essentially stealing them from developing countries.

And using the taxpayers to support their exploitation by funding a military with little or no defensive purposes.
Tom

 

[Milton Platt]

A United Nations ban on the sale of weapons to Iran is set to expire in mid-October despite a last-ditch effort by the Trump administration to renew it.

Without the arms ban, Russia and China are poised to bolster their already close military alliances with Iran, selling the country stockpiles of advanced weapons that will be available to the Islamic Republic's terror proxy groups, including Hezbollah in Lebanon. Both countries have sold Tehran arms in the past—including aiding its nuclear endeavors—and have been clear in recent months about their desire to amplify the relationship.

European nations have already rejected the United States' bid to indefinitely extend the arms embargo and are now opposing further efforts to restore all sanctions on Iran that were lifted under the 2015 nuclear agreement.

The stalemate at the U.N. Security Council has decimated the United States' historically close relationship with France, Germany, and the U.K.

Looming Middle East Arms Race Sparks Fear of Unprecedented Regional War

...What is your position, and why?

The U.S. should not sell arms to one side and then complain about those selling arms to the other side.

 

[Revoltingest]

Google is your friend.
Tom

Quite often people believe things to be true. And that
those who disagree just haven't sought out confirming
information. But far more likely is that there's disagreement
over weighting the info, & reasoning from it.
So I eschew saying....
"Just use the internet to research my claims, & you'll see that I'm right."

 

[Cooky]

The U.S. should not sell arms to one side and then complain about those selling arms to the other side.

Because the authoritarian East deserves an equal potential of power as the more liberalized West?

That seems like an ideologically based reaction as opposed to a well planned out agenda.

 

[Milton Platt]

Because the authoritarian East deserves an equal potential of power as the more liberalized West?

That seems like an ideologically based reaction as opposed to a well planned out agenda.

Because selling arms to either side encourages and makes war worse. and it is hypocritical.

 

[columbus]

I'm still failing to see how nuclear arming more villains will help here.

Help with what?

China, and especially Russia, want to regain their regional and global dominance.
So, they're strengthening their alliance with the Gulf Oil Region's strongest country, Iran. While helping the USA install a weak and divisive leader. One who will, among other things, make it clear to countries like Iran that the USA cannot be trusted.

And in a few years, as the USA economy sinks under the weight of it's military and corporate welfare and tax cuts for the rich, they'll win.

But, by golly, we'll have shown those Mexican workers who is boss around here!
Tom

 

[columbus]

Quite often people believe things to be true.

It isn't that hard to find out which country has the biggest military and exports the most weapons.
You are skeptical of the claims I made on that subject.

Feel free to contradict my claims with something more compelling than your personal skepticism.

Or not.
Tom