Drug and alcohol addiction

[Ashoka]

You don't know the reason why you are depressed? What causes the "chemical imbalance"? I would like to hear, what it means to you to be depressed.

It really doesn't matter what it means to me. What matters is what it is; a disorder. Just as substance use is a disorder.

For a person with substance use disorder, they, at first, use the drug to experience a high. That high releases chemicals like dopamine and serotonin at high levels. But eventually, you develop dependence, and the levels you are seeking of these chemicals is higher and higher. Eventually, you are using, not to feel a high, but to feel normal.

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome occurs when a person stops using; the brain forgets how to make the "happy" chemicals and needs to relearn. But this can take a while. So, you will have feelings of irritability, depression, fatigue, among other things. Because your brain is learning to make the chemicals by itself again, rather than being reliant on a substance.

With depression, the brain doesn't make those chemicals, or enough of them. Which is why we have SSRI's and other medications to help with making those chemicals. It's actually very common for people, who have substance use disorder, to have a comorbid diagnosis of depression. Others include anxiety, PTSD, and chronic pain.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you say it can't be done, it is same as saying it is impossible.

I haven't said it can't be done, nor have I said it's impossible.
Are you sure you've actually been reading my posts?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do you think there is some reason for being depressed? If there is a reason, then one can also reason himself out of it. If there is no reason, why would one be depressed?

This implies that someone can just stop being clinically depressed just because they want to. Well, if that were true, there wouldn't be any clinically depressed people in existence.

We're talking about a mood disorder here and there are a variety of factors involved, including but not limited to genetics and family history, chemical imbalance, abuse, age, conflict, serious illness, etc. People with a history of depression have smaller hippocampi than those without it, which means that they have less serotonin receptors than those without it. (Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that's involved in the processing of emotions.) There's a lot more to it than just "reasoning" your way out of depression. That's why therapists and antidepressants exist.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Mind is a powerful system. I saw once a very good document about nocebo effect. It had a case where a man thought he had taken powerful fatal drug and he believed he was going to die. He was taken into hospital, because he was in very serious condition and dying. Luckily someone told him that it was just a drug that was not harmful at all and he recovered fast after that. If person has bad beliefs, they can cause very serious health conditions.

In the case of alcoholism, you can actually die from withdrawal, as already pointed out.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Atheists are welcome in AA meetings, where religious talk is not. AA is about recovery from addiction, not religion. The use of a "higher power" can be interpreted however it makes sense. For most people, theists or not, the sober group is their "higher power". And it's who they turn to for the strength and wisdom to help them stay sober.

Also, AA does not reject any other means available to help one in the cause of sobriety. If religion helps, use it. If psychotherapy helps, use it. If psychiatry helps, use it. If time in a professional rehab helps, do it. If other 12 step programs help, use them. They consider this a matter of life and death, so AA supports using whatever means and methods work for an individual to help them stay clean and sober.

I've been to many AA meetings and at the end of every single one of them, we all recited the Lord's Prayer together. So there is definitely a religious aspect to it. That's a whole lot more specific than just a "higher power."

 

[SkepticThinker]

You don't know the reason why you are depressed? What causes the "chemical imbalance"? I would like to hear, what it means to you to be depressed.

That can often be part of the problem.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The main problem is the Political Left teaches a victim mentality instead of self reliance. The Left is a diversity of victim classes all seeking equity. As they wait for the promised payout, many become stuck in victimhood. If you are a victim you will either lose hope, or get mad, with addiction a way to forget you pain. If you are self reliant, there is always hope, and other outlets under your control, to help you moderate your recreational choices.

Victimhood is also rewarded or promised rewarded by the Left; trans and reparations. They would like to make all street drugs legal, except cigarettes. This is a strange line in the sand. This is not a good combination, and it will make it harder to escape being a victim; dangle the carrot.

It reminds me of an over protective mother; smother, who does a lot from her child, but to the point of creating dependency and handicaps, so they can never leave her. The broken child can never become self reliant; snow flake. They will need mother to carry them around. They can temporarily escape from this hopeless situation, with drugs and alcohol, which is fine by their smother, who knows this will hobble them, more, so she is needed even more.

Another problem is the medical industry still uses casino science, which is the same math used by gambling casinos, pollsters, politicians, marketing and advertising. The whims of the gods of casino math is not how self reliance works. Self reliance is more rational. Whims of the gods makes it easier to sell addiction; risk and benefit odds; fear and desire inductions with fuzzy dice.

You really should brush up on your psychology. You're about a century out of date.

 

[PureX]

I've been to many AA meetings and at the end of every single one of them, we all recited the Lord's Prayer together. So there is definitely a religious aspect to it. That's a whole lot more specific than just a "higher power."

You really should brush up on your psychology. You're about a century out of date.

Yes, that's a tradition they've chosen to keep from the past. But it's voluntary. And I like it because it's a strong reminder to humble oneself. That recovery is a group effort, and that we need to respect the beliefs of others even if they are not our own. Addiction causes most people to become almost pathologically self-centered. So it's a nice reminder at the end of the meeting that not everything in the world is for or about "me".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, that's a tradition they've chosen to keep from the past. But it's voluntary. And I like it because it's a strong reminder to humble oneself. That recovery is a group effort, and that we need to respect the beliefs of others even if they are not our own. Addiction causes most people to become almost pathologically self-centered. So it's a nice reminder at the end of the meeting that not everything in the world is for or about "me".

I wonder what the Muslims or the Buddhists in the crowd feel about it and how it "respects the beliefs of others."

 

[PureX]

I wonder what the Muslims or the Buddhists in the crowd feel about it and how it "respects the beliefs of others."

They are free to express whatever they think about it. Every AA meeting is controlled by the people participating in the meeting. They can literally choose not to follow that tradition at any time for any reason. In bigger cities there are "quad A" meetings: Atheist and Agnostic Alcoholics Anonymous. They don't say the Lord's Prayer at the end, obviously. I used to go to one back in the day, but to be honest, it all seemed a bit silly to me; all that effort to avoid acknowledging God. The whole point of AA is to get an stay sober. Who cares who believes or says what about God? It just seemed like a waste of energy based on a selfish resentment.

However, for those who had been traumatized in their lives by religious abuse, I could see that the effort to erase any reference to God or religiosity from the meetings was very important, for them, and was much appreciated. So again I learned from the experience and stayed with that meeting for a while.

Also, AA is all over the world, including in countries with many Hindus, Muslims, and even atheists. I doubt those meetings choose to end their meetings with a Christian prayer. The point is that the participants decide these things. And it's a group-centered recovery program. So it's a good exercise in group tolerance and support.

 

[SkepticThinker]

They are free to express whatever they think about it. Every AA meeting is controlled by the people participating in the meeting. They can literally choose not to follow that tradition at any time for any reason. In bigger cities there are "quad A" meetings: Atheist and Agnostic Alcoholics Anonymous. They don't say the Lord's Prayer at the end, obviously. I used to go to one back in the day, but to be honest, it all seemed a bit silly to me; all that effort to avoid acknowledging God. The whole point of AA is to get an stay sober. Who cares who believes or says what about God? It just seemed like a waste of energy based on a selfish resentment.

Yeah, but it's a whole other thing when the entire room is saying the Lord's Prayer in unison while you stand there silently.

I feel like I wouldn't find AA helpful because I don't feel good about submitting myself to a higher power. I don't think any higher power than can actually help me do something actually exists. I find psychological therapy much more effective. But that's just me.

However, for those who had been traumatized in their lives by religious abuse, I could see that the effort to erase any reference to God or religiosity from the meetings was very important, for them, and was much appreciated. So again I learned from the experience and stayed with that meeting for a while.

Also, AA is all over the world, including in countries with many Hindus, Muslims, and even atheists. I doubt those meetings choose to end their meetings with a Christian prayer. The point is that the participants decide these things. And it's a group-centered recovery program. So it's a good exercise in group tolerance and support.

I've never been to those meetings so I can't speak on them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I feel like I wouldn't find AA helpful because I don't feel good about submitting myself to a higher power.

Even if your higher power were the power of the group?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is a solution, in Alcoholics Anonymous (and NA). It worked for me 21 years ago, and it’s been working ever since.

That works for some, but not everyone. At best about a 50% success rate is I remember correctly.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That works for some, but not everyone. At best about a 50% success rate is I remember correctly.

Here is what I found: "Addiction specialists cite success rates [of AA] slightly higher, between 8% and 12%."

Alcoholics Anonymous: The 12 Steps of AA & Success Rates

Learn about the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step Program, the success rate of AA & what it entails. Find out statistics or receive immediate help.

americanaddictioncenters.org

 

[Ashoka]

I feel like I wouldn't find AA helpful because I don't feel good about submitting myself to a higher power. I don't think any higher power than can actually help me do something actually exists. I find psychological therapy much more effective. But that's just me.

The higher power, the God of your own understanding, doesn't have to be a big guy in the sky. It can be the earth. It can be the community. One client of mine told me, while we were sitting outside in the rain (under a cabin) that the rain was her higher power, "because you can't stop the rain. It's a power greater than me."

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here is what I found: "Addiction specialists cite success rates [of AA] slightly higher, between 8% and 12%."

Alcoholics Anonymous: The 12 Steps of AA & Success Rates

Learn about the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step Program, the success rate of AA & what it entails. Find out statistics or receive immediate help.

americanaddictioncenters.org

Thank you, I had a feeling that I might be overstating it. AA of course claims rates even higher than mine. Of course AA has a 100% success rate if you do not count any of the failures.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Thank you, I had a feeling that I might be overstating it. AA of course claims rates even higher than mine. Of course AA has a 100% success rate if you do not count any of the failures.

The point is it works; it works for those who want to stop, and who are willing to put the work in on themselves. At meetings all around the world you can walk into rooms full of people whose lives have been transformed by AA, and I am talking here from personal experience.

 

[DNB]

What is the right answer to change our problem? Why do we have it? We have all these vivacious religions here, over-friendly Jewish Temples friendly churches, and Mosques, and yet we as Americans can´t find a cure with all our religions here? It would seem that we could cure our problems, but we are in a crisis, the medical field, says our opiate and meth addictions are a national Crisis!

Man is hedonistic, first, and foremost. He loves his vices. Problem is, he keeps chasing the dragon until he can't control himself anymore. And, now, we have an epidemic of drug users and alcohol abusers.

People initially enjoy drugs, partying, getting high and buzzed. This is the catalyst. Just the fact that it has become legalized a great deal in North America, reveals the size of the market for it. The problems often come much later where people feel that they can stop, but in vain.

Thus, most people don't see it coming, won't admit it when it's there, or go about desisting such activity in either an ineffective or half-hearted way.

People love their vices.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The point is it works; it works for those who want to stop, and who are willing to put the work in on themselves. At meetings all around the world you can walk into rooms full of people whose lives have been transformed by AA, and I am talking here from personal experience.

No, it is highly overrated. It works for only a small percentage. If it works for you that is great, but you were one of the lucky ones. If you kept reading you would have seen that my 50% estimate was far too high.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No, it is highly overrated. It works for only a small percentage. If it works for you that is great, but you were one of the lucky ones. If you kept reading you would have seen that my 50% estimate was far too high.

You expressed an opinion on a subject you clearly know nothing about, pulling a statistic out of thin air to support your prejudice. Now you are pointing at a hastily googled link provided by another poster, which I doubt you’ve even looked at.

I suggest you either do some proper research, or save your cynical asides for subjects you have some familiarity with.