Draupati Disrobed: Ford and Kavanaugh

[sealchan]

As I continue my study of the Mahabharata I am often reminded of the game of dice as a metaphor for the election of Donald Trump. Trump is Duryodhana incarnate who defies all good moral action through his self-centered thinking and powerful action.

Kavanaugh is a sort of sub-avatar of Trump especially as his testimony parroted some very Trump like lines and was not the sort of language one wants to hear from a candidate for an office that is supposed to be apolitical.

Ford, the accuser, stood up in all vulnerability and through her accusation threatened self exposure and vulnerability. Now her credibility, her honesty and her integrity (her "robes") are in doubt. Senator Flake is something of a flaky Dhritarashtra who is a Karuva (Republican) but also has some feeling for the injustice done to Ford-Draupati.

I'm posting this here in the hope of any further thoughts on this from those knowledgable of the Mahabharata. Any and all comments welcome.

Also, from a broader perspective, what might this great epic have to say about politics in the US? Will there be a "great war" be necessary?

 

[godnotgod]

... what might this great epic have to say about politics in the US? Will there be a "great war" be necessary?

It says this:

The kind man does something,
yet something remains undone.
The just man does something,
and leaves many things to be done.
The moral man does something,
and when no one responds
he rolls up his sleeves and uses force.

When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.

excerpted from Tao te Ching, Ch 38

Tao Te Ching - Chapter 38 - Translation by Stephen Mitchell

 

[Aupmanyav]

US is at war with itself.

 

[sealchan]

US is at war with itself.

Hastinapur...the Karuvas vs the Pandavas...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, sort of.

 

[sayak83]

As I continue my study of the Mahabharata I am often reminded of the game of dice as a metaphor for the election of Donald Trump. Trump is Duryodhana incarnate who defies all good moral action through his self-centered thinking and powerful action.

Kavanaugh is a sort of sub-avatar of Trump especially as his testimony parroted some very Trump like lines and was not the sort of language one wants to hear from a candidate for an office that is supposed to be apolitical.

Ford, the accuser, stood up in all vulnerability and through her accusation threatened self exposure and vulnerability. Now her credibility, her honesty and her integrity (her "robes") are in doubt. Senator Flake is something of a flaky Dhritarashtra who is a Karuva (Republican) but also has some feeling for the injustice done to Ford-Draupati.

I'm posting this here in the hope of any further thoughts on this from those knowledgable of the Mahabharata. Any and all comments welcome.

Also, from a broader perspective, what might this great epic have to say about politics in the US? Will there be a "great war" be necessary?

Not sure the Democrats are the Pandavas though....

 

[atanu]

As I continue my study of the Mahabharata I am often reminded of the game of dice as a metaphor for the election of Donald Trump. Trump is Duryodhana incarnate who defies all good moral action through his self-centered thinking and powerful action.

Kavanaugh is a sort of sub-avatar of Trump especially as his testimony parroted some very Trump like lines and was not the sort of language one wants to hear from a candidate for an office that is supposed to be apolitical.

Ford, the accuser, stood up in all vulnerability and through her accusation threatened self exposure and vulnerability. Now her credibility, her honesty and her integrity (her "robes") are in doubt. Senator Flake is something of a flaky Dhritarashtra who is a Karuva (Republican) but also has some feeling for the injustice done to Ford-Draupati.

I'm posting this here in the hope of any further thoughts on this from those knowledgable of the Mahabharata. Any and all comments welcome.

Also, from a broader perspective, what might this great epic have to say about politics in the US? Will there be a "great war" be necessary?

Symbolism in Mahabharata has spiritual insight - Times of India

 

[sealchan]

Yeah, sort of.

I know, a stretch, but still...makes me see the insight that the Mahabharata has into how things can go in politics...

 

[sealchan]

The argument has been made that Republicans follow a strict father pattern of morality while Democrats follow a nurturing mother pattern. This makes the division between the two parties one that symbolizes the difference between men and women. This polarity can be seen, partially, in the distinction between the Karuvas and the Pandavas. I also see how this doesn't correlate.

In my view perhaps even more telling is the two modes of ego development as I see them which seem to have a sexual bias. The separative mode has the ego form as a power center ruling over all the other inner voices. The cooperative mode has the ego as coordinator of all the other inner voices, sharing out power. Certainly Duryodhana is the separative, masculine while Yudhishthir is the cooperative, feminine. Duryodhana would not begrudge five villages or one speck of dirt to the Pandava. The Pandava were willing to share even if unfairly to their disadvantage.

So here we can see some continuity between my mapping of the two political parties. With such deep psychological divisions, will war be inevitable? By war I mean political battle. I think it already feels like that is what is happening.

 

[Jainarayan]

Kavanaugh & Ford vis-à-vis Mahābhārata... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In India also, we have a political Mahabharata coming up. The ruling party on one side and ALL THE REST on the other side. Elections in May.

 

[sealchan]

Kavanaugh & Ford vis-à-vis Mahābhārata... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Metaphor is the root of all meaning and no metaphor is perfect.

Spiritual truths and the stories that unfold them do have real world applications...or are they just nerdy entertainments with metaphysics and superheroes.

The current U.S. political confrontation just has the benefit of taking place in the world's most powerful nation, so it has added significance.

It doesn't hurt that I have been watching B.R. Chopra's Mahabharat these last many months.

 

[Jainarayan]

It doesn't hurt that I have been watching B.R. Chopra's Mahabharat these last many months.

It's a very good series, I want the dvd set... once I save up the $99 for it. Anyway, I think we have to be careful to not see patterns and correspondences where there may be none. The events and themes in the Mahābhārata are extremely intricate, subtle and go back far into the history of India (the India of the Mahābhārata) and the families, with intrigue aplenty, and divine involvement (more than just Krishna). I don't know if there's anything in modern politics that is even a fraction of the intricacies of the Mahābhārata. That's just my view. I may be biased in holding the Mahābhārata to be in a class by itself, like the General Theory of Relativity, with nothing being able to touch it.

 

[Jainarayan]

In India also, we have a political Mahabharata coming up. The ruling party on one side and ALL THE REST on the other side. Elections in May.

Maybe Sri Kalki will return for that, since Sri Krishna was here for the last one. I wish he'd hurry up!

 

[Aupmanyav]

A little spelling correction, it Draupadī, (as per the legend) daughter of Drupada, King of Panchāla (therefore Pānchālī also), Nityayuvānī (ever young), Yojanagandhā (whose fragrance can be felt for 8 miles or 13 kilometers). She was very beautiful and of dark hue and was born out of a sacrificial fire-pit (Yajna kunda).
Draupadi - Wikipedia

Gandhāra: King Dhritarashtra's wife, Gāndharī
Madra: Step mother of Arjuna, Mādrī
Vidarbha: Krishna's first and principal wife, Mother Rukminī
Shurasena: Arjuna's mother, Kunti, the sister of Krishna's father, Vasudeva
Koushala: Rama's kingdom
Videha: Mother Sitā and King Janaka's Kingdom

 

[Aupmanyav]

Maybe Sri Kalki will return for that, since Sri Krishna was here for the last one. I wish he'd hurry up!

Not so soon, Jai. There is more to come before the Lord takes his tenth avatara (as you mentioned 425,889 years later). Kaliyuga is entitled to rule for 432,000 years.

 

[ajay0]

As I continue my study of the Mahabharata I am often reminded of the game of dice as a metaphor for the election of Donald Trump. Trump is Duryodhana incarnate who defies all good moral action through his self-centered thinking and powerful action.

Kavanaugh is a sort of sub-avatar of Trump especially as his testimony parroted some very Trump like lines and was not the sort of language one wants to hear from a candidate for an office that is supposed to be apolitical.

Ford, the accuser, stood up in all vulnerability and through her accusation threatened self exposure and vulnerability. Now her credibility, her honesty and her integrity (her "robes") are in doubt. Senator Flake is something of a flaky Dhritarashtra who is a Karuva (Republican) but also has some feeling for the injustice done to Ford-Draupati.

I'm posting this here in the hope of any further thoughts on this from those knowledgable of the Mahabharata. Any and all comments welcome.

Also, from a broader perspective, what might this great epic have to say about politics in the US? Will there be a "great war" be necessary?

I would say it is unfortunate that these things are happening in the U.S.

Swami Vivekananda had greatly appreciated American women and described them as progressive in the nineteenth century, but it seems America failed to lift off from there later on.

For example, India has had a female president Pratibha Patil and prime minister Indira Gandhi while America still have not had a female president till now.

I have faith that my American sisters will conquer all obstacles to break the glass ceiling of the 'female president' and show they are a force to reckon with.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not so soon, Jai. There is more to come before the Lord takes his tenth avatara (as you mentioned 425,889 years later). Kaliyuga is entitled to rule for 432,000 years.

One can hope! Maybe Garuda will get a tailwind and the flight will come in early!? (Gods, that's irreverent even for me!).

 

[sealchan]

It's a very good series, I want the dvd set... once I save up the $99 for it. Anyway, I think we have to be careful to not see patterns and correspondences where there may be none. The events and themes in the Mahābhārata are extremely intricate, subtle and go back far into the history of India (the India of the Mahābhārata) and the families, with intrigue aplenty, and divine involvement (more than just Krishna). I don't know if there's anything in modern politics that is even a fraction of the intricacies of the Mahābhārata. That's just my view. I may be biased in holding the Mahābhārata to be in a class by itself, like the General Theory of Relativity, with nothing being able to touch it.

These days I'm just about as "in love" with the Mahabharata as with any story that I can recall.

Complexity is an interesting argument...there are many opportunities in the story to say that so and so is to blame for all of this...Shantanu, Bhishma, Pandu, Dhritirashtra...decisions make impacts later on that no one expects. This is all very "butterfly effect"-chaos theory-complexity science really. It is really much more the underlying currents of things than it is the individuals who stand out when it comes to reality.

If we unravel the series of events that have gone into this courtroom drama "between" Kavanaugh and Ford...we have to look at the election of Trump as part of the rising of the #MeToo movement. Then there is the end of the Cold War where the sort of man vs man battle of nuclear stockpiles was finally ended and the idea that the world could be destroyed in 30 seconds seemed to greatly dissipate (at least in my mind). When one has a gun to one's head, you see, you don't think about whether men who have raped should be given powerful positions over others.

As we come down off of the consequences of World War II (which we still are) we find that the balance between Mars and Venus (men and women) is leveling...there is an almost palpable feeling I think among many in the U.S. that we have just to push a little harder and we will achieve this sort of balance...of course, many are looking with fear at the changing demographics of the U.S. to the point that the total non-whites will exceed that of whites in a matter of a few decades.

Perhaps as the Mahabharata was a complex story of individuals meant to symbolize the detailed and complex interactions of our inner psychology, so too does this help us to understand the same for our cultural experience. One could, perhaps, weave a tale of individuals responsible for this series of events. Perhaps one candidate for Krishna would be computer technology...from Turing's work in cracking the German code allowing the Allies to know what the Germans were doing to Gates and the three founders of Apple heralding the consumerization of computer technology to the women (we could maybe find one to give the credit to) that started the #MeToo movement, etc... And if we distort the truth a little to make the gradual movements of culture out to be the work of individuals, we do what helps the story-teller convey his/her message in an enduring way...we make it personal.

In my study of dreams I have seen where myths come from. I have seen Garden of Eden dreams, Great War dreams, God dreams... The great epic stories have arisen, in this sense, out of the dreams of story-tellers which, in many ways, contain the same basic motifs of all of our dreams. The stories of the Mahabharata have brothers and sisters in the stories of Greek, Jewish, Norse epic legend. I have seen how the Mahabharata's Game of Dice narrative is echoed in the much, much simpler Jacob and Esau story. It may be that in all of this emergent cultural drama we are also living out at large common psychological dramas we can find inside of each of us.

But, yes, too, we must be careful not to over-associate between the two.

 

[sealchan]

I would say it is unfortunate that these things are happening in the U.S.

Swami Vivekananda had greatly appreciated American women and described them as progressive in the nineteenth century, but it seems America failed to lift off from there later on.

For example, India has had a female president Pratibha Patil and prime minister Indira Gandhi while America still have not had a female president till now.

I have faith that my American sisters will conquer all obstacles to break the glass ceiling of the 'female president' and show they are a force to reckon with.

Yes, and I suspect our African American president to be followed by a woman president was just too much for a lot of people. No one says this these days but I suspect Clinton's being a woman was, in fact, a major factor as to why she didn't win even as it was a factor for why so many wanted her to win.