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Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Uh... why would anyone believe in that? Or care whether that might be true to begin with?
Which truth are you referring to, Paarsurrey? The truth according to you, that Islam is the one and only true religion, and all other people should be following it?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That doesn't preclude the revealed religions who were truthful in their origin but due to debris of time were corrupted (their scriptures) by narrators/scribes/priest-hood. Please
Regards
Trouble is, there is no compelling reason why revealed religions must ever have been true. It is an article of faith that people are free to accept or reject as they see fit.
So all the religions other than Islam, and in fact the Amaddiya version of Islam, are corrupted?
If that is what you believe, then one should just follow that and not try to 'help' others.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That never means that they are useless, they still have light in them if one follows them, one will reach the truthful destination in their light. But one has to discern light from darkness of corruption. Right? Please
I respect most all the revealed religions and their truthful founder Prophets. Please
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran mentions freedom of religion:
[18:30] And say, ‘It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve.’ Verily, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose flaming canopy shall enclose them. And if they cry for help, they will be helped with water like molten lead which will burn the faces. How dreadful the drink, and how evil is the Fire as a resting place!
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=18&verse=29
Please
Regards
So this means that since Hinduism doesn't have a prophet you don't respect us? It's what I've figured all along, but for you to make it so obvious is a change. Obviously we disagree.
Interesting choice of verse. In the context, one has to wonder if the Qur'an even acknowledges that there is a difference between disbelief in the God of Ibrahim and "wrongdoing" worth of a "flaming canopy" and suchlike.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Rishis, Krishna were prophets/messengers of Brahman. Please
Regards
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
You are talking of personalities. There is no personality and no creation, there is just one totality to many Hindus. They call it Brahman. I know as a Muslim you would not be able to understand this. You need a God, you need a messenger (and a masiha along with that as an Ahmadiyya, just a messenger will not suffice) and you need two books, one of the messenger and the other of the masiha (Quran and Malfoozat). We do not need anything.
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According to you, but according to Hindus, Krishna is God, and the rishis are wise souls, not prophets or messengers.
"Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?"
No.
No.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I write what I believe with reasonable arguments and signs, others are free to believe whatever they like to believe. There is no compulsion in matters of religion. Please
Regards
Paar, Hindus don't have prophets. Krishna is believed to be God Himself, not a prophet.
Of course we all believe what we choose to for our own reasons and are free to do so, as you say.
Whether or not your arguments are reasonable remains very up for debate. In fact, I would say they aren't reasonable at all. In fact, they are rarely even arguments. You don't reply to other peoples' questions, you just keep reiterating your own opinion. It's like someone talking away with no listeners. That's not really a debate, Paarsurrey.
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I guess there is a place for discussing what a lack of compulsion would entail exactly.
People can't be forced to change beliefs, although they can and often are pressured to behave according to social expectations that relate to religious beliefs.
An extreme reading would be that "there is no compulsion in religion" is simply a statement of the simple fact that people can't be forced to change beliefs by the sincerity and intensity of our own beliefs.
But I would venture to guess that most forum members would find that interpretation indeed extreme. A lack of compulsion would generally mean a lack of interest in pressuring others.
People can't be forced to change beliefs, although they can and often are pressured to behave according to social expectations that relate to religious beliefs.
An extreme reading would be that "there is no compulsion in religion" is simply a statement of the simple fact that people can't be forced to change beliefs by the sincerity and intensity of our own beliefs.
But I would venture to guess that most forum members would find that interpretation indeed extreme. A lack of compulsion would generally mean a lack of interest in pressuring others.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Veda Scripture- The Compressed One
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is compiled which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part of it in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information in this connection, please.
The latest on the blueprint of the above is like this to summarize:
1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept mostly as it is. I understand that it is about 1000 ± pages, not possible to read by a busy person, therefore, it also needs compression as is evident. The elite class of Brahmins wanted to create as many as possible obstacles to keep Veda out of reach of an ordinary man, it is one such obstacle. Rigveda is also to be compressed, therefore, however, references will be provided so that one who wants to go to detailed study of Veda could access them. Right? Please
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primarily derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, It will be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating to that effect.
3.I have read Yajurveda from cover to cover . I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed and only references provided in the original one.
4.We get a clue from post #18 ,#43, in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Veda believers, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Veda, and that is a wrong concept. Right? Please
#42 #49
In terms of the posts mentioned above, one may conclude following reasonable options:
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends who ascribe themselves to Vedas help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself. Right? Please
6.We get a clue from post #79 that Veda is not to be taken literal, it is in symbols and metaphors.#80,#5 friend
@Madhuri Post #4 ,friend
@ratikala post #15 , friend
@Sunstone post #9
, and friend
@SomeRandom post #16 describes, "But I tend to interpret things metaphorically rather than most traditional Hindus. But even still how can we possibly fathom the true form? The idols may contain the presence or energy or whatever one wishes to call it of the Nameless formless one, but they are still approximations"
7. We get a clue from post #23 in another thread that there is too much monotony in Rigveda. So for minimizing it only some or more representative passages/verses should go to the compressed Rigveda but their references will be provided as mentioned in point one above. Please
8. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, God and gods are different things.Friend
@Madhuri Post #87 God is the source of the gods. And I think it says in the text that the Supreme God IS Hiranyagarbha; not that the Supreme God is created from the egg.These parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else #52. Right? Please.
9. Veda was once one book in terms of post #31 , #65 this way it will become one again from the four or many Vedas 105 .
Anybody, please
10. I understand from
@Aupmanyav that the hymns of Veda have no chronological order, and (now my opinion) perhaps not even arranged subject-wise or under any system commanded by Brahman and are in a haphazard form. I would like some system in their arrangement and will like some suggestions to this effect for the Compressed Veda. Please
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
12. Vedas were revealed on Rishis, and rishis are one's senses and also one's satguru, friend
@atanu told us in post #28. If he is right, and there is no reason of him being wrong, then everybody having senses could understand and interpret Veda and Veda is for him , Brhamin or Shudra or Daulit or untouchanble or anybody/everybody else in any part of the world or whatever religion. Right? Please
13.We get clue from post #18 from friend
@Satyamavejayanti , and post #19 from friend
@HarihOm that there are no myths in the Vedas. Also as per post #23
and post #24 and as per the statement quoted from Wikipedia by friend @Jainarayan which has a sentence that "n popular use, a myth can be a collectively held belief that has no basis in fact ".(please correct me if I am wrong), unless it is allegoric and for this a set principle is laid down in Veda. If not, only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
14. The imperfect Gods mentioned in Veda no more fight, may be they got perfected, or they have killed one another so the verses in which these have been mentioned in Veda and implored for help by the priestly class and the sacrifices offered to them are no more needed. Such places/verses need to be compressed and only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
15. Every chapter/verse of Veda needs to be classified from the flora, fauna and or big trees of a region mentioned in them, if they belong to the 1)Arctic or were 2)written in the "steppes" or in 3)the Indian-sub-Continent or in 4)Australia or in 5) Africa or 6) elsewhere in the word. Right? Please #92
Please
Note: Please note the change.
Regards
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is compiled which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part of it in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information in this connection, please.
The latest on the blueprint of the above is like this to summarize:
1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept mostly as it is. I understand that it is about 1000 ± pages, not possible to read by a busy person, therefore, it also needs compression as is evident. The elite class of Brahmins wanted to create as many as possible obstacles to keep Veda out of reach of an ordinary man, it is one such obstacle. Rigveda is also to be compressed, therefore, however, references will be provided so that one who wants to go to detailed study of Veda could access them. Right? Please
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primarily derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, It will be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating to that effect.
3.I have read Yajurveda from cover to cover . I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed and only references provided in the original one.
4.We get a clue from post #18 ,#43, in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Veda believers, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Veda, and that is a wrong concept. Right? Please
#42 #49
In terms of the posts mentioned above, one may conclude following reasonable options:
- One should make the confirmed opinion that Veda people were not a peaceful people. They were most of the time fighting with others and invoking the god/idols for helping in this cause, they needed war spoils for their livelihood and were offering sacrifices only to this end.
- Rishis never taught such things, they were peaceful, all these verses had been made-up by the narrators/scribes/priests for their own ends.
- Hence all such verses in all Vedas need to be compressed and only reference provided to historical reason.
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends who ascribe themselves to Vedas help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself. Right? Please
6.We get a clue from post #79 that Veda is not to be taken literal, it is in symbols and metaphors.#80,#5 friend
, and friend
7. We get a clue from post #23 in another thread that there is too much monotony in Rigveda. So for minimizing it only some or more representative passages/verses should go to the compressed Rigveda but their references will be provided as mentioned in point one above. Please
8. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, God and gods are different things.Friend
9. Veda was once one book in terms of post #31 , #65 this way it will become one again from the four or many Vedas 105 .
Anybody, please
10. I understand from
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
12. Vedas were revealed on Rishis, and rishis are one's senses and also one's satguru, friend
13.We get clue from post #18 from friend
and post #24 and as per the statement quoted from Wikipedia by friend @Jainarayan which has a sentence that "n popular use, a myth can be a collectively held belief that has no basis in fact ".(please correct me if I am wrong), unless it is allegoric and for this a set principle is laid down in Veda. If not, only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
14. The imperfect Gods mentioned in Veda no more fight, may be they got perfected, or they have killed one another so the verses in which these have been mentioned in Veda and implored for help by the priestly class and the sacrifices offered to them are no more needed. Such places/verses need to be compressed and only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
15. Every chapter/verse of Veda needs to be classified from the flora, fauna and or big trees of a region mentioned in them, if they belong to the 1)Arctic or were 2)written in the "steppes" or in 3)the Indian-sub-Continent or in 4)Australia or in 5) Africa or 6) elsewhere in the word. Right? Please #92
Please
Note: Please note the change.
Regards
Krishna is Brahman; Shiva is Brahman; Lakshmi is Brahman; the rishis are Brahman; we are Brahman; there is nothing other than Brahman.