Donald Trump calls Immigrants Animals?

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

In Context: Trump's comments about immigrants, animals

What do you think? Was he just talking about MS-13 or was he letting his racism show again? I'm part of the latter.

 

[Augustus]

I see it more as within a context of 'bad guys' rather than specifically MS13, he doesn't have any intent to refer to immigrants in general though.

Mims: And I appreciated Mr. Homan and ICE. We had a great relationship; we still do. But now ICE is the only law enforcement agency that cannot use our databases to find the bad guys. They cannot come in and talk to people in our jail, unless they reach a certain threshold. They can't do all kinds of things that other law enforcement agencies can do. And it's really put us in a very bad position."

Trump: "It's a disgrace. Okay? It's a disgrace."
...
Trump: "...It's so ridiculous. The concept that we're even talking about is ridiculous. We'll take care of it, Margaret. We'll win."

Then you get the MS13 and animals bits.

Trump: The dumbest laws, as I said before, the dumbest laws on immigration in the world. So we're going to take care of it, Margaret


When the conversation is clearly focused on criminal elements, claiming he then flipped to talking about immigrants in general, then flipped back to talking about the previous legal issues that made it hard to deal with 'bad guys' is somewhat biased and relies on taking his words in bad faith.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well...unfortunately in Europe there is the case of Sweden...which became the rape capital of the EU....all of a sudden.

We have to be honest and admit that the Swedish male is not responsible at all for that
because Sweden was not like that 30 years ago

Wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

 

[Jumi]

Wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

Calling it rape capital like the Turks and Trump did? I don't know, but it's no longer the Sweden we used to know. Living next to Sweden and reading their papers in their language, I gotta laugh sometimes when both left and right in the US get it dead wrong.

What I can tell you is they are having serious problems now and started closing their borders to immigrants. We get high profile cases you won't hear about and no it's not about "Islam". One of the high profile cases had immigrants from a Christian country and Sweden didn't use to have "problems with Muslims" before.

 

[stvdv]

In Context: Trump's comments about immigrants, animals
What do you think? Was he just talking about MS-13 or was he letting his racism show again? I'm part of the latter.

Personally I find it an insult to "animals". They are much better than the "very bad human lookalikes Trump referred to".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Calling it rape capital like the Turks and Trump did? I don't know, but it's no longer the Sweden we used to know. Living next to Sweden and reading their papers in their language, I gotta laugh sometimes when both left and right in the US get it dead wrong.

What I can tell you is they are having serious problems now and started closing their borders to immigrants. We get high profile cases you won't hear about and no it's not about "Islam". One of the high profile cases had immigrants from a Christian country and Sweden didn't use to have "problems with Muslims" before.

I can't comment on what's going on there without sources. I don't live there and you don't, either. Criticizing immigration and the handling of the migrant crisis is fine (I can sympathize with the nationalists) but you have to base your criticisms on reality and not laughable rumors that demonize different ethnic groups and stoke fears. What Luca said is provably wrong. There is no "I don't know". It's incorrect, period.

 

[Jumi]

I can't comment on what's going on there without sources. I don't live there and you don't, either. Criticizing immigration and the handling of the migrant crisis is fine (I can sympathize with the nationalists) but you have to base your criticisms on reality and not laughable rumors that demonize different ethnic groups and stoke fears. What Luca said is provably wrong. There is no "I don't know". It's incorrect, period.

Not many people really care about the nationalists, but they are flocking to them because they think they can provide safety. Luca isn't that far wrong about Sweden as you (or Snopes) think.

Because of what's been happening Sweden are now making changes into rape laws to include sex without consent. So if they say NO and you still start sex, it will now be rape. Sexual harassment is also being made to include moments where you are confused that the women want to be harassed. So statistics will climb up quite a bit after this new law.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not many people really care about the nationalists, but they are flocking to them because they think they can provide safety. Luca isn't that far wrong about Sweden as you (or Snopes) think.

Because of what's been happening Sweden are now making changes into rape laws to include sex without consent. So if they say NO and you still start sex, it will now be rape. Sexual harassment is also being made to include moments where you are confused that the women want to be harassed. So statistics will climb up quite a bit after this new law.

I have not seen any evidence that Luca's silly statements about Sweden are correct. Do you have evidence that goes against what Snopes said? What, you think Snopes is lying?

I don't see what that last paragraph has to do with immigrants at all.

 

[Jumi]

I have not seen any evidence that Luca's silly statements about Sweden are correct. Do you have evidence that goes against what Snopes said?

Sweden is being made into a plaything for US and Turkish rightwing and global leftwing, like the situation there had anything to do with other countries.

What, you think Snopes is lying?

Well, they're interpreting things. What is your definition of rape and Swedish law definition of rape? Did they go into it?

Statistical evidence shows that rape in Sweden is not on the rise. Reported cases have remained steady for almost a decade.

Anmälda våldtäkter ökade med 10 procent år 2017 - DN.SE

Translated, statistics bureau reported rapes increased 10% in 2017.

I don't see what that last paragraph has to do with immigrants at all.

The reason is different cultural signals. Women don't invite you to have sex with miniskirts and when they say no, you're supposed to listen. edited out example of legal case pm if you want it

So many things that to us are still rape, might be "just" a sexual crime or no crime according to law. When the law changes and those become rape, the statistics will see a rise.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well...unfortunately in Europe there is the case of Sweden...which became the rape capital of the EU....all of a sudden.

We have to be honest and admit that the Swedish male is not responsible at all for that
because Sweden was not like that 30 years ago

1) I have friends in Malmo, and they're thoroughly bemused by the reporting. They are not especially left wing, and even favour tightening border controls (at least, one couple does) but still find the rape capital claims ridiculous.

2) I was in Malmo less than 3 months ago, and there is very much a belief that the initial flood of refugees caused infrastructure problems which are now largely under control, although they are part of world events in a way they weren't previously.

3) Immigration into Sweden isn't just about refugees, but also EU members. So, if we assume immigration is an issue, we can't simply assume how/who/what action to take.

And finally...

4) Swedish laws are...well...stricter. Both in terms of what constitutes rape, but also on how rapes are counted. They count rape incidents, for example, rather than counting a series of rapes as one. So comparing their stats to other countries is difficult, plus their own figures tend to be more volatile than would otherwise be the case.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jumi]

1) I have friends in Malmo, and they're thoroughly bemused by the reporting. They are not especially left wing, and even favour tightening border controls (at least, one couple does) but still find the rape capital claims ridiculous.

Of course the reporting is ridiculous.

2) I was in Malmo less than 3 months ago, and there is very much a belief that the initial flood of refugees caused infrastructure problems which are now largely under control, although they are part of world events in a way they weren't previously.

Agree.

3) Immigration into Sweden isn't just about refugees, but also EU members. So, if we assume immigration is an issue, we can't simply assume how/who/what action to take.

That's right. Even Finns were considered problems in Sweden because we were profiled to be violent and uncultured at the time. Of course it was also the truth that we were more violent than native Swedes and our country was poorer, people went there to make money doing random jobs.

4) Swedish laws are...well...stricter. Both in terms of what constitutes rape, but also on how rapes are counted. They count rape incidents, for example, rather than counting a series of rapes as one. So comparing their stats to other countries is difficult, plus their own figures tend to be more volatile than would otherwise be the case.

Comparing to which countries?

Did you ask them why are they now making the rape laws stricter if they were stricter to begin with? Sentence times are also really low, just like other nordic countries.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Did you ask them why are they now making the rape laws stricter if they were stricter to begin with? Sentence times are also really low, just like other nordic countries.

It's a fair question.
So stricter in two senses than Australia/New Zealand (where I've lived most of my life).

1) In a criminal sense, mostly around what constitutes 'consent'. It seemed that there was a clearer line drawn on what consent meant, in terms of it needing to be informed consent. So, basically, a severely inebriated woman couldn't give consent.

2) In a statistical sense, stricter in how rapes were counted. One crime, one rape. A husband raping his wife on a repeated basis could therefore be responsible for many rapes. I doubt we count them that way in Australia.

However, I'd have to say both points are more anecdotal than anything, so happy to be corrected.

 

[Jumi]

1) In a criminal sense, mostly around what constitutes 'consent'. It seemed that there was a clearer line drawn on what consent meant, in terms of it needing to be informed consent. So, basically, a severely inebriated woman couldn't give consent.

That is being put into law now so it's not showing in the statistics yet:

Sweden to tighten rape legislation, outlawing non-consensual sex

We're considering the same changes in the law.

2) In a statistical sense, stricter in how rapes were counted. One crime, one rape. A husband raping his wife on a repeated basis could therefore be responsible for many rapes. I doubt we count them that way in Australia.

However, I'd have to say both points are more anecdotal than anything, so happy to be corrected.

Yes that's the Swedish governments offical Q&A reason on why rape statistics are on the rise. My country has comparative numbers per population, though Swedish numbers are higher.

 

[Riders]

Sometimes at times like these I want to call the police in Washington and say "Theres a man who has taken over the white house pretending to be the president have him arrested!

 

[metis]

Trump says a lot of things that are blatantly immoral, so why should him calling some "animals" surprise us?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Trump says a lot of things that are blatantly immoral, so why should him calling some "animals" surprise us?

What gets me is, even if you support his policies how can anyone back this man? He's the ugliest part of mankind on display.

 

[Estro Felino]

What gets me is, even if you support his policies how can anyone back this man? He's the ugliest part of mankind on display.

I think it is fair to underline that the POTUS was referring to criminals and not to legal immigrants

The POTUS stands for hope in the heart of many Europeans...he values European national identities...because Europe has changed a lot lately because of massive immigration.

Swedes, a small population only desire not to become a minority in their own country...nothing more

 

[Shad]

So if they say NO and you still start sex, it will now be rape.

Wait... That wasn't rape before?

 

[Jumi]

Wait... That wasn't rape before?

It was a matter of interpretation, so they are changing the law, quoting from the Reuters article:

“If a person wants to engage in sexual activities with someone who remains inactive or gives ambiguous signals, he or she will therefore have to find out if the other person is willing,” the bill reads.

 

[Jumi]

Swedes, a small population only desire not to become a minority in their own country...nothing more

I don't think that many Swedes really care about it, as long as people follow the rules in their country.