Does the genome change?

[fantome profane]

Ok, I am calling on our resident experts, professionals, and general research junkies. What I want to know is “do we have clear irrefutable evidence of changes occurring to the genome?” I am not talking about “computer models” or “theoretical changes”. I want to know if there is any actual observation of changes to the genome of any species.

Thanking you all in advance for your help. :help:

 

[painted wolf]

There are lots of real world examples of genome changes.

The evening primrose is the result of massive genomic change: polyploidy.
Horizontal Gene Transfer also results in measurable changes in the genome.
Gene duplications result in the measurable changes in the genome.

And on and on... The most important changes to the genome are the ones that make us individuals.

Some papers on the subject:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EId/vol10no3/pdfs/02-0812.pdf
Genomic Changes in Resynthesized Brassica napus and Their Effect on Gene Expression and Phenotype -- Gaeta et al. 19 (11): 3403 -- THE PLANT CELL
Genome fragment of Wolbachia endosymbiont transferred to X chromosome of host insect

some websites on the issue:
Research - The Polyploidy Portal
Horizontal gene transfer in prokaryotes - encyclopedia article - Citizendium

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

There are lots of real world examples of genome changes.

The evening primrose is the result of massive genomic change: polyploidy.
Horizontal Gene Transfer also results in measurable changes in the genome.
Gene duplications result in the measurable changes in the genome.

And on and on... The most important changes to the genome are the ones that make us individuals.

Some papers on the subject:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EId/vol10no3/pdfs/02-0812.pdf
Genomic Changes in Resynthesized Brassica napus and Their Effect on Gene Expression and Phenotype -- Gaeta et al. 19 (11): 3403 -- THE PLANT CELL
Genome fragment of Wolbachia endosymbiont transferred to X chromosome of host insect

some websites on the issue:
Research - The Polyploidy Portal
Horizontal gene transfer in prokaryotes - encyclopedia article - Citizendium

wa:do

Thank you. I had figured it was a rather silly question, but I just wanted to get it out there and get it out of the way.


Now is there anyone who wishes to deny that genome change is an observed reality? Anyone?

 

[ninerbuff]

There's also gene doping
http://www.genedoping.com/docs/Gene Doping.pdf

 

[Ace7X]

Genetic Variation

 

[evolved yet?]

Genetic Recombination?

 

[newhope101]

There are lots of real world examples of genome changes.

The evening primrose is the result of massive genomic change: polyploidy.
Horizontal Gene Transfer also results in measurable changes in the genome.
Gene duplications result in the measurable changes in the genome.

And on and on... The most important changes to the genome are the ones that make us individuals.

Some papers on the subject:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EId/vol10no3/pdfs/02-0812.pdf
Genomic Changes in Resynthesized Brassica napus and Their Effect on Gene Expression and Phenotype -- Gaeta et al. 19 (11): 3403 -- THE PLANT CELL
Genome fragment of Wolbachia endosymbiont transferred to X chromosome of host insect

some websites on the issue:
Research - The Polyploidy Portal
Horizontal gene transfer in prokaryotes - encyclopedia article - Citizendium

wa:do

PW is trying to allude to the differences between you and me as being some sort of difference in the underlying DNA sequence of us as an organism of the same species. Indeed our own DNA changes during our lifetime, yet our sequence remains the same and you and I remain the same species. This is not as black and white as PW makes out. If PW wished to truly represent the current concepts she is quite able to do so.

To suggest that 'any' change observed truly constitutes genome 'change' is a misrepresentation of current research into gene families, RNA regulation, gene expression and epigenetics.

Please look up Wiki and the referenced research and inform yourself and make up your own mind, rather than listening to PW or I.
Genome

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The genome of an organism is the whole of its hereditaryinformationencoded in its DNA (or, for some viruses, RNA). This includes both the genes and the non-coding sequences of the DNA. The term was coined in 1920.[1]
Winkler's definition, in translation, runs:
"I propose the expression Genome for the haploidchromosome set, which, together with the pertinent protoplasm, specifies the material foundations of the species ...." [2]p165However, no single haploid chromosome set defines even the DNA of a species, because of the huge variety of alleles carried by a population. Even a diploid individual carries genetic variety. For that reason Dobzhansky preferred "set of chromosomes",[3] and the definition now must be broader than Winklers' definition. The genome of a haploid chromosome set is merely a sample of the total genetic variety of a species.

The term genome can be applied specifically to mean the complete set of nuclear DNA (the 'nuclear genome') but can also be used of organelles that contain their own DNA, as with the mitochondrial genome or the chloroplast genome.


Wiki:Epigenetics
In biology, epigenetics is the study of inherited changes in phenotype (appearance) or gene expression caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence.

These changes may remain through celldivisions for the remainder of the individual's life and may also last for multiple generations. However, there is no change in the underlying DNA sequence of the organism.[1] Instead, non-genetic factors cause the organism's genes to behave (express themselves) differently.[2]

The best example of epigenetic changes in eukaryote biology is the process of cellular differentiation. During morphogenesis, totipotent stem cells become the various cell lines of the embryo, which in turn become fully differentiated cells. In other words, a single fertilized egg cell – the zygote – divides and develops. The daughter cells change into the many cell types of the mature embryo. These include neurones, muscle cells, epithelium, blood vessels an so on. This happens by activating some genes while inhibiting others.[3

Epigenetic changes are long-term, and usually survive the process of cell division (mitosis). Changes occur in the chromatin, which is a combination of the DNA and its surrounding histone proteins in the chromosome. The details of how this happens are still being worked out, but it is fairly certain that the wrapping of the DNA and histone is a key feature.

Also look up Gene Expression:..and not the MAY influence evolution"Gene regulation may also serve as a basis for evolutionary change: control of the timing, location, and amount of gene expression can have a profound effect on the development of the organism."

You all should look into what you are told. Black and white answers usually allude to being misinformed these days.

 

[newhope101]

Here is more information for you to make your own minds up with:

Wiki Germline:
In biology and genetics, the germline of a mature or developing individual is the line (sequence) of germ cells that have genetic material that may be passed to a child.

For example, gametes such as the sperm or the egg, are part of the germline. So are the cells that divide to produce the gametes, called gametocytes, the cells that produce those, called gametogonia, and all the way back to the zygote, the cell from which the individual developed.

Cells that are not in the germline are called somatic cells. This refers to all of the cells of body apart from the gametes. If there is a mutation or other genetic change in the germline, it can be passed to offspring, but a change in a somatic cell will not be.

Germline cells are immortal, in the sense that they have the potential to reproduce indefinitely. This is largely due to the activity of the enzyme known as telomerase. This enzyme extends the telomeres of the chromosome, preventing chromosome fusions and other negative effects of shortened telomeres. Most somatic cells, by comparison, can only divide around 30-50 times due to the Hayflick limit. Certain somatic cells, known as stem cells, also express telomerase and are potentially immortal.[1]

Not all multicellular organisms differentiate cells into somatic and germ lines. Notably, plants have no germline cells separate from stem cells.
Germline can refer to a lineage of cells spanning many generations of individuals—for example, the germline that links any living individual to the hypothetical first eukaryote of about 2 billion years ago, from which all plants and animals descend.
　

Wiki Eukaryote:
Eukaryotes appear to be monophyletic, and so make up one of the three domains of life. The two other domains, Bacteria and Archaea, are prokaryotes and have none of the above features. Eukaryotes represent a tiny minority of all living things; even in a human body there are 10 times more microbes than human cells.[4
　
However, in the same year (2005), doubts were expressed as to whether some of these supergroups were monophyletic, particularly the Chromalveolata,[13] and a review in 2006 noted the lack of evidence for several of the supposed six supergroups.[14]

As of 2010[update], there is widespread agreement that the Rhizaria belong with the Stramenopiles and the Alveolata, in a clade dubbed the SAR supergroup, so that Rhizara is not one of the main eukaryote groups; also that the Amoeboza and Opisthokonta are each monophyletic and form a clade, often called the unikonts.[15][16][17][18][19] Beyond this, there does not appear to be a consensus.

 

[LuisDantas]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[camanintx]

PW is trying to allude to the differences between you and me as being some sort of difference in the underlying DNA sequence of us as an organism of the same species. Indeed our own DNA changes during our lifetime, yet our sequence remains the same and you and I remain the same species. This is not as black and white as PW makes out. If PW wished to truly represent the current concepts she is quite able to do so.

To suggest that 'any' change observed truly constitutes genome 'change' is a misrepresentation of current research into gene families, RNA regulation, gene expression and epigenetics.

Please look up Wiki and the referenced research and inform yourself and make up your own mind, rather than listening to PW or I.

I only have two words for you. Lactose tolerance.

 

[newhope101]

Well Camanintx and LouisDantas you can take PW simplified answer or you can see what more credentialed and experienced researchers have to say about genome change and what exactly that relates to.

Of course there is a difference between an chimp and human genome. However there are differences between you and I that do not amount to us being a different species, or kinds, for that matter.

The change of genetic information within an organism is known as a genetic mutation. It may also be refered to as a change in allele frequencies when populations are examined.

I did not think PW response was a true reflection of the status quo and I've said so. That had nothing to do with proving any creationist point.

Take it or leave it...I'm sure you will both leave it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well Camanintx and LouisDantas you can take PW simplified answer or you can see what more credentialed and experienced researchers have to say about genome change and what exactly that relates to.

And either way the answer is essentially the same. So?

Of course there is a difference between an chimp and human genome. However there are differences between you and I that do not amount to us being a different species, or kinds, for that matter.

BTW, would you happen to have stumbled upon a functional definition of kind since we last interacted? The world is still waiting.

The change of genetic information within an organism is known as a genetic mutation. It may also be refered to as a change in allele frequencies when populations are examined.

So you have finally admitted that allele frequencies change - and therefore, that biological evolution is a fact? Good for you.

I did not think PW response was a true reflection of the status quo and I've said so. That had nothing to do with proving any creationist point.

Take it or leave it...I'm sure you will both leave it.

That you got right.

 

[painted wolf]

The change of genetic information within an organism is known as a genetic mutation. It may also be refered to as a change in allele frequencies when populations are examined.

No... allele changes in populations are just that. A change in an individual is not a change in the population. The particular gene has to spread in the population to be a change in allele frequencies. That is, it has to become for or less frequent.

Blue eyes for example. Everyone with the blue eye allele shares a single ancestor who's blue eye allele spread through the population.

Other really great examples in humans are the CCR5-(delta)32 gene, the lactose tolerance genes, amylase gene duplications and of course sickle cell and Tay-Sachs disease.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

PW is trying to allude to the differences between you and me as being some sort of difference in the underlying DNA sequence of us as an organism of the same species. Indeed our own DNA changes during our lifetime, yet our sequence remains the same and you and I remain the same species. This is not as black and white as PW makes out. If PW wished to truly represent the current concepts she is quite able to do so.

Actually I addressed several different types of genome changes. Not just between individuals.

ps... if our DNA changes in our life (and yes, it can in places...ie skin cancer) than that means the sequence has changed. You can't change DNA without changing the sequence of it's kind of how it works.
Changing gene expression (ie. breast cancer) doesn't change DNA.

Cancer is "you" but it is a "different you"... and it doesn't like you.

To suggest that 'any' change observed truly constitutes genome 'change' is a misrepresentation of current research into gene families, RNA regulation, gene expression and epigenetics.

Wow... you saw through my attempt at wit to my deep dark purpose... good for you...

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

... you can take PW simplified answer

Should we prefer your oversimplified answer? PW's answer is at least consistent; your answers not only contradict themselves but also contradict reality. I believe this was your answer.

I am a creationist the genome will not change

This is an extreme oversimplification, it is also just plain wrong, it is also inconsistent with other things you have said.

or you can see what more credentialed and experienced researchers have to say about genome change and what exactly that relates to.

Then let me ask you again what I asked you before.

Ok, so give me one reference to any biologists or geneticist that that says the genome doesn’t change. Just give me one.

So you say that more credentialed and experience researchers say something different than what Painted Wolf has said. So please name one (just one) biologist or geneticist that claims that the genome does not change.

The change of genetic information within an organism is known as a genetic mutation. It may also be refered to as a change in allele frequencies when populations are examined.

Yes, you can refer to it as a change in the allele frequency, or a change in the genetic frequency, or you can refer to it as a change in the genome! This is where you are in contradiction with yourself.





P.S. Notice the proper way to do quotes. It makes the post easier to read, makes it clearer who said what, and makes it easier to link back and find the proper context, and it also makes it easier to respond. It is really not that difficult and well worth it. Please consider it.

 

[camanintx]

Well Camanintx and LouisDantas you can take PW simplified answer or you can see what more credentialed and experienced researchers have to say about genome change and what exactly that relates to.

I'll take a simplified correct answer over an incorrect answer any day.