Does Natural Selection Evolution Explain Speciation?

[Dante Writer]

spe·ci·a·tion: the formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution.

Generally speciation is only said to occur when species from the same genus have evolved to the point they can no longer interbreed.

The mechanism thought to create the conditions for speciation to occur is geographic isolation. When a group of organisms from the same species are separated by geography those living together will have different food sources and natural pressures and through natural selection within that group will mate for characteristics necessary for survival and reach a point where they can no longer breed with other organism from the same species in a different geographic location.

Darwin claimed finches on the Galapagos Islands had become isolated and through mating selection had become different species however other scientists (Peter and Rosemarry Grant) have observed that not only do these finches interbeed but that the offspring hybrids seem to do better than the parents.The same is true for marine and land iguana found on the islands that can and do interbreed. Further studies show as these isolated organisms are introduced and interbreed characteristics thought to be evolutions may revert back to the characteristcs before the two groups were separated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galapagos_land_iguana
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/03/nature_galapago083531.html

Scientists have tried to recreate the conditions of speciation by isolating fruit flies and feeding them different diets and while the groups have shown a preference for mating with their own group (speculation) they were still very capable of breeding with the other group.

If speciation occurred through geographic isolation then we would probably see that among humans that had many humans separated geographically with different diets and natural pressures.

Australian aborigine, native American Indians, pacific Islanders, Asians, white Europeans and African tribe people were for thousands of years separated geographically and had different diets and natural pressures and have some different physical characteristics and can be identified by their DNA.

However, all of these humans can and do interbreed and no speciation has occurred.

Does Natural Selection Evolution Explain Speciation?

If not then what other explanation do you have for speciation if any?

 

[Willamena]

Geographic isolation is a condition, not a mechanism. Natural selection is the mechanism.

 

[Willamena]

Geographic isolation is one of the conditions that allows for speciation to occur. It's not a mechanism that brings about speciation.

Isolating fruitflies and feeding them isn't going to make them evolve. It's not a mechanism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Speciation

So tell us, @Dante Writer , what is your explanation?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Geographic isolation is one of the conditions that allows for speciation to occur. It's not a mechanism that brings about speciation.

Isolating fruitflies and feeding them isn't going to make them evolve. It's not a mechanism.

On the other hand, if you isolate some theists and feed them a shallow understanding of science you may well breed ID enthusiasts.

 

[Ouroboros]

If not then what other explanation do you have for speciation if any?

Don't know.

What's the answer?

 

[Dante Writer]

Speciation

So tell us, @Dante Writer , what is your explanation?

If isolation is not the answer then maybe the answer is that speciation from one species to another does not happen.

It is possible all species are only capable of natural selection for characteristics but not to produce a new species.

"Each after their own kind"

This could happen if a process of abiogenesis or front loaded evolution produced many organisms all with different DNA that prevented crossbreeding.

 

[Dante Writer]

Don't know.

What's the answer?

If isolation is not the answer then maybe the answer is that speciation from one species to another does not happen.

It is possible all species are only capable of natural selection for characteristics but not to produce a new species.

"Each after their own kind"

This could happen if a process of abiogenesis or front loaded evolution produced many organisms all with different DNA that prevented crossbreeding.

 

[Dante Writer]

On the other hand, if you isolate some theists and feed them a shallow understanding of science you may well breed ID enthusiasts.

Yes or if you isolate scientists and feed them only one theory and tell them they must eat that theory or lose their funding you will breed narrow minded evolutionists!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If isolation is not the answer then maybe the answer is that speciation from one species to another does not happen.

You try so hard.

 

[McBell]

Yes or if you isolate scientists and feed them only one theory and tell them they must eat that theory or lose their funding you will breed narrow minded evolutionists!

Expelled has been thoroughly refuted as nothng but wishful thinking and propaganda for the choir.

 

[McBell]

You try so hard.

I cannot help but wonder who it is he is trying to convince, himself or everyone else.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If isolation is not the answer then maybe the answer is that speciation from one species to another does not happen.

It is possible all species are only capable of natural selection for characteristics but not to produce a new species.

Except we know for a fact that it does, such as in the observed examples of ring species:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

The reason we don't see this kind of spciation in humans is quite simple: humans reproduce much slower (in terms of physical sexual development and the average age of each generation prior to producing offspring), and we are not subjected to a similar level of environmental attrition. This means it takes a much longer time to produce significant genetic or biological changes in isolated populations of humans, and it would take far, far longer for those changes to lead to genetic/reproductive incompatibility.

"Each after their own kind"

The problem is that the category of "kind" is meaningless unless you can define the specific perameters of what constitutes the same or different "kind". In all my years posting on these (and other) evolution vs. creationism forums, whenever the "kind" category is brough up by creationists they have never succeeded in providing the precise parameters that define it.

This could happen if a process of biogenesis or front loaded evolution produced many organisms all with different DNA that prevented crossbreeding.

Sure, but that doesn't explain shared DNA or the fossil record. In fact, it would be in direct contradiction to both.

 

[Ouroboros]

If isolation is not the answer then maybe the answer is that speciation from one species to another does not happen.

It is possible all species are only capable of natural selection for characteristics but not to produce a new species.

"Each after their own kind"

This could happen if a process of abiogenesis or front loaded evolution produced many organisms all with different DNA that prevented crossbreeding.

Doesn't explain the genetic evidence for share ancestry though. How does this explain shared unique ERVs and transposons? Also, radiation of species fits continental drift and evolutionary process. Old world vs new world monkeys for instance.

How does the front loading of genetic code work? How is it done in biochemical sense? Is it programmed atoms or is it quarks driving it? Basically, do you have any hypothesis for the mechanics? And what is it that is front loading these genes during an abiogenesis event (or perhaps we should call it biogenesis)? And who or what is doing the front loading?

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes or if you isolate scientists and feed them only one theory and tell them they must eat that theory or lose their funding you will breed narrow minded evolutionists!

And what theory is the right one then to replace evolution?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And what theory is the right one then to replace evolution?

Well, you see, God made (and continues to make) lots of different Kinds. In on case, he took the first of the Kind, pit it into a deep sleep, took out a rib, and ...

 

[viole]

Australian aborigine, native American Indians, pacific Islanders, Asians, white Europeans and African tribe people were for thousands of years separated geographically and had different diets and natural pressures and have some different physical characteristics and can be identified by their DNA.

Thousands of years is nothing. We could even interbreed with Neadenthalers, who were not strictly homo sapiens.

But we cannot interbreed with gorillas, despite having a common ancestor.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Neo Deist]

Well, you see, God made (and continues to make) lots of different Kinds. In on case, he took the first of the Kind, pit it into a deep sleep, took out a rib, and ...

So you like reading fiction too?!

 

[Willamena]

Isolation through genetic drift would be one mechanism for that isolation condition.

Stating that isolation is a mechanism for bringing itself about is tautology. Easier just to recognize it as itself.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, you see, God made (and continues to make) lots of different Kinds. In on case, he took the first of the Kind, pit it into a deep sleep, took out a rib, and ...

It's funny. I was taking an anthropology class years ago, and had a skeleton in my living room for study. A friend of ours is religious, and he saw the skeleton and made a comment about that men have a rib less than female and it proves creationism. And I could tell him that it's not true. Men have the same number of ribs. There's a percentage (don't remember the number) though of men (and women) that do have a rib pair less, but most men have all of them.