does JESUS(pbuh) said i am GOD & worship me ?

[JacobEzra.]

Just because the Trinity was the most popular belief does not mean that it is the correct one.

I have not yet read either. I have a very long reading list that I'm trying to work though. However, I expect that by reading texts from early Christian fathers, my points will only be reaffirmed. In fact, many of the early Christian writers and founding fathers of the Church were later declared heretic as times and ideas changed. :yes:

Read it and then come back and say that

 

[On_a_Quest]

Haha, fair 'nough. I'll let you know when I do. Are there any specific authors that you suggest?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Haha, fair 'nough. I'll let you know when I do. Are there any specific authors that you suggest?

St. Thomas Aquines-Catena Aurea. Here is the Gospel of Matthew. Catena Aurea - Gospel of Matthew | Christian Classics Ethereal Library On this website it is easier to read.

HEre is the full Gospel with teh commentary that St. Thomas put together. Its legit, you will see if you compare the two websites its the same, jsut the quality is not as great on this one. Catechetics Online

Here you will find the beliefs evident of the Early Chruch Fathers; my favorites are St. Jerome and St. John Chryosoto, as well as some apprences of others including St. Augustine and St. Cyril, all Early Church Fathers.

PS; I got you message on the other thread. I will address it. Its just late and my head is hurting and I got insomnia once more. I promise though I will get to it. I am not ignoreing the post or anything.

 

[Allah-lover]

lets say this supplication;

OH GOD the merciful appear to us all in our dreams after sleeping today

Tell us clearly is Jesus a human being or not

& To Jesus if you are god appear in the sky & let all the people all over the world see you today

do miracles of raising many people from death, show Jews & Muslims your reality

 

[JacobEzra.]

& To Jesus if you are god appear in the sky & let all the people all over the world see you today

do miracles of raising many people from death, show Jews & Muslims your reality

lol Most ridicules post I have ever seen.

Only if you ask Allah to show true signs of Mohammed prophethood. Maybe have him appear in the sky

 

[Renji]

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child and bear a son and shall name him Immanuel (meaning God with us)

And yeah, Mary conceived a child.

Isaiah 9:5-7 For a child is born to us... they name him Wonder Counselor, God Hero, Father forever, prince of peace.

He (Jesus) wouldn't be called God Hero or Father forever if he's just human... So there, that's what verses I can get from the bible about Jesus aside from my earlier post..

 

[Renji]

lol Most ridicules post I have ever seen.

Only if you ask Allah to show true signs of Mohammed prophethood. Maybe have him appear in the sky

J. Ezra, this is a DIR forum (see the forum rules). We need not to ridicule someone for stating what he/she believes. We answer in DIR forum for the sake of learning and understanding one's faith...

 

[JacobEzra.]

J. Ezra, this is a DIR forum (see the forum rules). We need not to ridicule someone for stating what he/she believes. We answer in DIR forum for the sake of learning and understanding one's faith...

I t would seem it was the other poster who was trying to ridicule Christian belief. As if Christ will do such a thing, or Mohammed or whatever. No being would do such a thing...not until the Resurrection and judgement.

 

[Lucian]

Haha, fair 'nough. I'll let you know when I do. Are there any specific authors that you suggest?

If you would like my suggestion as well, then I'll suggest chronological reading. The latest one I read was Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho, it's very enlightening and even somewhat fun to read.

 

[Shermana]

Recognizing/believing that Jesus Christ is ONE with G-d & the Holy Spirit is the most basic fundamental of being a "Christian," since Christianity is founded on the belief that Christ is the manifestation (embodiment) of G-d in the flesh. Thus, Christ declaring "before Abraham was, I AM" John 8:58 is nothing less than a full-out acknowledgment that He is G-d (since "I AM" is the name G-d reveals to Moses) - which is why the Jews immediately picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy in making Himself equal to G-d.

Unable to elaborate now (will try to follow-up later), let this remain clear: The Bible most definitely does "really support the whole Jesus = G-d" revelation, but the Bible (Biblia/Logos) is one word - meaning it must be understood as a sum of its parts and cannot be deciphered accurately taking verses out of context. You must understand the context of "I AM," to realize Christ's declaration was by no means "indirect..."

With regards to begotten - it does not mean there is sex involved. That Christ is begotten means that He is not "created" as if there was a point when He didn't exist. He is One with the Father, Who with His Holy Spirit - has always existed & will always exist, the beginning & the end.

The surest, fastest and most logical way to know Who G-d/Christ is, is to ask Him directly. "G-d, Who is this Christ? Make me to understand so I may know You better." Even Islam wouldn't consider such a sincere interaction between you and your Maker against the rules of approaching G-d...
And then read the gospels again - this time not looking for any specific phrase or limited number of words, but instead read them to understand Who Christ is and what message He teaches.

The purpose of Christ's coming was not to tell people to worship Him, but rather to destroy death & release humans from their enslavement to it (by being crucified & raising Himself from the "dead" - having died in the flesh, not in His divinity).
This is not about a man making/lifting himself up to be G-d, which is a hard thing and impossible for a human; rather, it is about G-d coming down and becoming man, which is a very easy & small thing for Him. Our concern in hearing this should logically move from "if" to "why" He did this. Then we might come closer to understanding Christianity not as a mystery of a man being G-d, but a mystery of God's love for humans being so beyond human imagination that He came down among us hidden - allowed Himself to suffer unjustly at the hands of those He had chosen & uttered the words "forgive them, for they know not what they do" before returning to His glory and height - bringing humans up with Him (who before then, everyone believed we were separate from G-d, from dust & returning to it - but after Him, humans have come to recognize G-d as our Father Who loves us). Indeed the ones who have tasted, continue to testify of how sweet God's love is: "Taste and see that the Lord is good."

G-d will exceed your expectations and the limitations you place on Him, if only you would ask Him sincerely. It is the greatest spirit of deception to tell you it is wrong to approach G-d and explore Him. Why should you allow any person, book or thing on earth or in heaven stop you from speaking openly and freely to your G-d and Creator as if to your Father? G-d cannot be fully contained in any of these, but through Christ He has allowed Himself to fill you - rendering you/your body His temple, which is the fulfillment of the prophesy of the Messiah. Seek G-d and keep seeking to know His Christ and you will find Him.

to be continued...

As I've said in other threads, the translation should be "Before Abraham, I was", he didn't actually call himself "I am", he'd have to say "I am I am" to be anything close to gramatically correct. The word used for "Abraham was" is also used for "Will be", like how "Je Suis" has multiple tense uses in French.

"Before Abraham was, I was"

- New Testament, An American Translation

This misconception is perpetuated by dishonest modern translations that attempt to rip off the Upper case use of "I am" from the use of the word "Lord" for Kurion.

Jesus only called himself "A god", which means "a powerful being". The meaning of the word "God" and the name (which is a name, not a statement) 'Eyeh", which means more than just "I am".

 

[Pegg]

Here you will find the beliefs evident of the Early Chruch Fathers; my favorites are St. Jerome and St. John Chryosoto, as well as some apprences of others including St. Augustine and St. Cyril, all Early Church Fathers.

we really have to be careful when it comes to the writings of such individuals because these men were not inspired writers...if they were, their writings would surely have been included in the canon.

And the fact is that some of their beliefs/teachings stray from the writings of the NT...they present ideas that are not present in the NT writings.

The NT writers warn of christians who were beginning to stray from the apostles teachings and introducing doctrines 'of men'

1 Timothy 4:1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances

2 Peter 2:1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.

1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort

 

[Shermana]

Ironically, 2 Peter and 1 Timothy are unanimously held as Pseudipigrapha by almost all except Evangelicals.

The early Syriac Church rejected the Pastorals, and 2 Peter was not accepted universally.

1 John no one has a problem with though.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

According to my belief, yes Jesus said that He is God, but He did not demand worship. He taught people in a loving manner so that they would choose to worship Him on their own. John 8:58 has Jesus saying "Before Abraham was, I AM. What I would like for you to realize is that in those days in the Jewish culture, the Jews would associate "I AM" with the God of the Bible because God said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, that I AM WHO I AM. (The capital letters are for educational purposes. I am not yelling at you.) So you see, Jesus not only claimed to be God, He is God. Let me know if you want to know more.

 

[Awoon]

According to my belief, yes Jesus said that He is God, but He did not demand worship. He taught people in a loving manner so that they would choose to worship Him on their own.


John 8:58 has Jesus saying "Before Abraham was, I AM.

You got that right. John has Jesus saying that. In plain language the author of John put those words in Jesus mouth!



What I would like for you to realize is that in those days in the Jewish culture, the Jews would associate "I AM" with the God of the Bible because God said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, that I AM WHO I AM. (The capital letters are for educational purposes. I am not yelling at you.) So you see, Jesus not only claimed to be God, He is God. Let me know if you want to know more.

No Jew would ever say they were God. God is Spirit not Human...Jesus