Does Galileo owe the Pope an apology?

[chlotilde]

this is a comment taken from another thread, but the words could be my own too

Inflation from a singularity, every single point IS the center of the perceived universe.
You are currently in the center of the universe.

obviously I am being a bit facetious here
"science theory" evolves while "God theory" doesn't, so there could be a point where they agree and then a point where they don't and then back and forth. argument is futile

and even the above is not a true statement, because "Christian theory" has evolved to a point where some believe one group does all sorts of unnecessaries (that would be we Catholics) and then the Catholics see others as having stripped out so much stuff, all you have to do is say a few magic words and then be done with it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry, but I really have very little idea of what you mean.

Maybe you could elaborate some?

 

[Valjean]

I'm with with senhor Dantas. I'm not following what you mean.

Galileo was condemned for implying that the Earth moved. The Catholic church dismissed confirmatory evidence. The church should apologise.

 

[chlotilde]

Sorry, but I really have very little idea of what you mean.

Maybe you could elaborate some?

Well, since what a word means at any one time also evolves...you could make arguments over what universe means...but the issue between Galileo and the church was "is the earth the center of the universe or the sun". And history played out such that Galileo was right and the church was wrong because the earth moved around the sun in a heliocentric universe....which it does in a heliocentric universe, but as a scientist, i no longer believe in a heliocentric universe.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, since what a word means at any one time also evolves...you could make arguments over what universe means...but the issue between Galileo and the church was "is the earth the center of the universe or the sun". And history played out such that Galileo was right and the church was wrong because the earth moved around the sun in a heliocentric universe....which it does in a heliocentric universe, but as a scientist, i no longer believe in a heliocentric universe.

I just don't see why Galileo would owe an apology to the Catholic Church, since after all he was neither wrong nor an accuser.

As for you no longer believing in Heliocentrism... I guess I just don't understand what you mean by that.

 

[chlotilde]

The church should apologise.

They did.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can see it now....
Galileo: "I apologize for imprisoning the Pope for life & for my heresy of heliocentrism."
Pope: "Well, it's about time! We hereby retract our earlier apology."
Galileo: "You appologized? I was imprisoned for life."
Pope: "We did.....several hundred years after you died. Oopsies!"

And now for a rerun of my old revolting ode to geocentricity.....

Some fundie's beliefs will confound.
As planets & sun go around,
Earth's orbit is nixed.
In space it is fixed.
At least they admit now it's round.

 

[chlotilde]

As for you no longer believing in Heliocentrism... I guess I just don't understand what you mean by that.

I did not say heliocentrism, i said heliocentric universe.

 

[Valjean]

The church's primary objection to Galileo wasn't Copernicanism, -- that the Earth orbited the Sun. It was the implication that the Earth moved at all.
Remember Galileo was said to have muttered "eppur si muove" -- "yet it moves," after his forced recantation.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

It was several issues, I think at the time the giant split between the catholic church and protestant church had recently occurred, the catholic church wasn't as open to any challengers at that time as it might have been, Gal according to some reports also wrote some scathing things about the Pope who apparently was leaning towards his side, and also there's that whole issue with Aristotle ruining science.

 

[chlotilde]

The church's primary objection to Galileo wasn't Copernicanism, -- that the Earth orbited the Sun. It was the implication that the Earth moved at all.
Remember Galileo was said to have muttered "eppur si muove" -- "yet it moves," after his forced recantation.

True, and now we view all motion as relative from a bigger universe picture.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, since what a word means at any one time also evolves...you could make arguments over what universe means...but the issue between Galileo and the church was "is the earth the center of the universe or the sun". And history played out such that Galileo was right and the church was wrong because the earth moved around the sun in a heliocentric universe....which it does in a heliocentric universe, but as a scientist, i no longer believe in a heliocentric universe.

The church said Earth was the center of the solar system and the universe. They were wrong at least on the account of being the center of the solar system.

Galileo said that Earth wasn't the center of the solar system, but the sun was. I don't know if he ever claimed what was or what wasn't the center of the universe however. Did he?

 

[roger1440]

I'm with with senhor Dantas. I'm not following what you mean.

Galileo was condemned for implying that the Earth moved. The Catholic church dismissed confirmatory evidence. The church should apologise.

The problem the Church had with Galileo is that Galileo presented his idea as fact not theory. He could not explain why the stars do not change position relative to one another as the Earth revolves around the sun.

 

[LuisDantas]

The problem the Church had with Galileo is that Galileo presented his idea as fact not theory. He could not explain why the stars do not change position relative to one another as the Earth revolves around the sun.

Uh?

 

[roger1440]

Uh?

What part didn't you understand?

 

[LuisDantas]

What part didn't you understand?

Nearly all of it, really.

Mainly, what do you mean by "presenting it as fact instead of theory"?

And where do you get the idea that Galileo could not explain an appearance of stability among the stars? Or that he needed to in the first place?

 

[Gordian Knot]

To the OP. Your analogy is not quite comparable.

The early church believed the earth was the center of the universe. I.E. the one single point which was earth.

Inflation theory suggests that every point is at the center. Earth is but one of a gazillion points, and all are at the center.

The two are entirely separate concepts.

 

[chlotilde]

The problem the Church had with Galileo is that Galileo presented his idea as fact not theory.

Thanks for this lead in...because whatever the churchs reasons to argue were, from a scientific viewpoint, heliocentrism is a theory.
In heliocentrism, it is a fact that the earth revolves around the sun. But in an expanding universe, that fact is only some kind of "greater absolute truth" if you are standing on the sun. So, isnt our view today of heliocentrism both fact and theory?

 

[fantome profane]

Yes, I think Galileo owes that Pope an apology for threatening his life and unjustly imprisoning him.

oh wait, I think I might have that backwards.


"But still it moves".

 

[chlotilde]

To the OP. Your analogy is not quite comparable.

The early church believed the earth was the center of the universe. I.E. the one single point which was earth.

Inflation theory suggests that every point is at the center. Earth is but one of a gazillion points, and all are at the center.

The two are entirely separate concepts.

Im not sure what analogy i made? But i agree with you that the two are not the same concept. It gets argued all the time by Catholics whether being the center of the universe is or is not a doctrinal belief. I side on the not side, only cuz ...what darn difference does it make.