Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

If you really sit down and think about it, its silly for anyone to go out and try to teach anyone about the Word. Why?

1Co 1:21 - For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
It is the foolishness of anyone (this included Paul in his time) to preach because when God is ready for one to understand then and only then will they understand. Not by thier own power or will can they understand anytime sooner.

AK4 I do not understand how you can say that, because the foolishness of preaching is referring to " faith comes by hearing" So someone has to preach the gospel a very embarrassing and ambling thing to do so that people may receive the faith.
Also the message is foolish because it says in a nutshell "he died for our sins and God raised him from the dead" A stumbling block for the Jews, and foolishness for the Gentiles.

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit
See even a criminal does not blame the law, but he said it is just.

I guess we need to get to the heart of the matter. We can say blame as good thing or a bad thing—depends how one wants to view it themselves. Heres the definition

Main Entry: 1blame

1: to find fault with :censure <the right to praise or blame a literary work>
2 a: to hold responsible <they blame me for everything> b: to place responsibility for <blames it on me>

Its interesting that in Job you can see how both of these definitions for blame is being addressed. It says in Job 21 He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there; the Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord." 22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.

In verse 21 it is showing who Job is holding responsible for everything “the Lord gave, the Lord taketh”. This is directly what the second definition says---to hold responsible. Job holds God responsible for it all. Then in verse 22 “charge (blame) God with wrongdoing”, Job didn’t find fault which is what the first definition says. So looking at the criminal, can he hold God responsible for creating the law? Yes he can. Can he then say he finds fault with Gods law because he is being punished for breaking it? No. The criminal knows he is held accountable for his actions because he broke the law. Same as us, we are held accountable for our thoughts and actions, but God is responsible for creating us the way we are, placing us in a world He calls “an evil time” “an evil net” “an evil snare” “an experience of evil” and lets not forget “the creature (that’s mankind) was made (God made us) subject to vanity (grk: what is devoid of truth and appropriateness perverseness, depravity frailty, want of vigour ), Not willingly, (notice, no one in their right mind wants to be in this time of evil, untruth, perversion etc etc. In otherwords God made us this way knowing[remember Hes all knowing—knowing the end from the beginning] that we wouldn’t want it to be this way) but by reason of Him (“after the counsel of My own will”) who subjected the same in hope”. God furthers His responsibility by “no one can know the Father except through Me (Jesus)” and “no one can come to the Son except by the Father” and to concrete it we are told that faith is given to us by Him and not of ourselves. So who is responsible for all things or who can be “blamed” for all things? God. But its foolish to blame Him as if we know more than Him or that we are more just than Him.

Isa 45:9 - "Woe to {the one} who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making {say,} 'He has no hands'

Rom9:20 - On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

I do not blame God for any evil in the world, but I blame him for the good that is in the world and I give thanks to him that loves me.

You know I was thinking on this for a time now and its amazing how God has been replaced by so many things in the world. When natural disasters happen its not God who brought it about its “man-made global warming” or heres the biggest replacer of them all—“mother nature”. God says He is the one that brings about all these things “I will bring this or I will bring that” and God mentions it for what it is i.e. earthquakes, hail, locosts etc etc etc. Notice who gave Paul a “thorn in the flesh” and why. Notice what Job said to his wife after she told him to curse God and die

10--But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


AK4 I have noticed that your thinking dwells in the Old Testament, if that is the case you will not be up to speed, for the life (gospel) of Christ is laid bear in the NT.

No my thinking dwells on the whole counsel of God, His entire Word. The OT is for our admonition, our example of things to learn from. The OT is huge and there is much we are to learn from it. Otherwiseif we don’t seek the counsel of God (His whole Word) we will learn it the hard way. Jesus is the Word of God. Is Jesus just the NT? Is just the NT only what represents the Logos? If the Gospel of Christ is laid bare only in the NT then we would have more than half the world confused on Him and His words. Actually that’s part of their problem because they don’t think that the OT is talking to them (Christians) “it was written for OUR admonition”. Look at how many times the Apostles referred back to the OT. The book of Revelations and Daniel are almost the same. Besides if you cant see that all the scriptures is One book and not two separate collections books you will never get the Word of God, which is Jesus.

Also something you might want to consider--- notice that it is these same OT scriptures that was “getting people to know” who and what Jesus is. There were no NT scriptures back then.

30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished F54 out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

38 And His word you do not have remaining in you, for that One Whom He commissions, this One you are not believing.
39 "Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian, and those are they which are testifying concerning Me,
40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life.

Also one last thing---Have you noticed in Revelations it mentions like ten times that Jesus is, was and will be--it must be important. So in order know All of Jesus have to know the was (OT and even before that), the will be (what He has planned for the future) and the is (if He is not in you then you wont know what the "is" means)

Yes there is a transitional period were we have a foot in the old and a foot in the emerging new testament. obviously the NT. by referring to the old shows that a new beginning with a new understanding is about to start. it is written in the NT, that the old is ready to disappear to make way for the new, the hold still has teaching wisdom, but the new surpasses that wisdom, for all wisdom and knowledge is in Christ and he is exposed for everyone to see and partake in the New Testament.

 

[free spirit]

Quote freespirit
Most if not all of the OT. scriptures have been fulfilled
Isa 26:9 - For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

With the introduction of the new covenant God promise to put his law in the heart of men in order for him to know God, or learn righteousness for We read in Hebrews 8: 7 to 12,
So, if you know the law, you have learned righteousness, but it is up to us to obey or disobey the law (or God in us) who's intention is to lead us to Christ) Jesus sayest every one that the father (or the law) gives me will come to me.

You have to pay attention to all the words. Notice it says &#8220;when thy judgments are in the earth&#8221;. These judgments are not in all earth now is it? Nope. Where is His judgments right now then? &#8220;For now is time for judgment to BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD&#8221;. Right now only His judgments are on the very elect, the house of God, and only they right now are learning righteousness. To know the law just to know it is waaaay different to knowing the law and its written in your heart and mind. Think about it. The (Christian) church know the law but yet they are filled with so many unscriptural doctrines and rituals, corruption, greed and so much unrighteousness. Has this church been judged yet? Nope. Has whats been said about MYSTERY BABYLON in Revelations happened? Nope not yet.

Think about it and how much you may be demeaning God by saying that His judgments are already in the whole world, the people already know righteousness now, yet MOST of them chose/have chosen/ are still choosing not to obey. How weak does that make God and His judgments compared to the will of man? Is mans will that much stronger than God?


God wishes for no one to perish, nevertheless 2 Peter 3:6 - 7, is clear for he says "Through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But the present heavens and earth by his WORD are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly (or lawless) men."

Well right there in that verse you just showed that judgment has not come on to the whole world so that they the inhabitants will learn righteousness. But I got something else in mind right here. You say God wishes&#8230;.nevertheless&#8230;.

Are you saying just as the whole world is saying that God can not get ALL His own wishes/wants/desires? Think about that for second, no longer. The Almighty omnipotent, all powerful God can not and will not get His wishes because of mans freewill to choose contrariwise to what He wants. Do you see how demeaning that is to your God? Do see how blasphemous it is to turn Gods wants to a weak unattainable wish? Do you see how this lifts man above God and lowers God.

So what do you think "destruction of ungodly men" mean; Are they destruct for a period of time, or are they destruct for eternity, on that day that eternity starts for mankind?

This is the importance of knowing aion/aionis thing. We read most of these translations and its nothing but doom and gloom and really its not a gospel at all yet utter fear. I told you how much damage just this word has done to the Gospel. This word alone has probably caused more mean to hate God than any other, even more than hades (hell). If this was the only age of salvation You will have to be lucky as hell (no pun intended) to be able to get saved in this lifetime especially since Christ said only a few will make it in this age.

Yes the destruction of these ungodly men is utter destruction meaning they will basically die and be dead, that&#8217;s it, that&#8217;s all (im not demeaning it, but that&#8217;s ther &#8220;just recompense&#8221. That is their just reward as the scriptures say. They will not be brought back to life in the next age&#8212;that is the eonian life gift given to the elect. But these people are not destroyed for ever. They must stand up (resurrect) in the Judgment and then learn righteousness. This is not a literal court room judgment scene. No it just the same thing that is happening to the elect now---they will rise and live again but during that lifetime they will be facing &#8220;the Day (Age) of the Lord&#8221; or as it says in Acts &#8220;appointed a day (age) when He will judge the world by this Man (Jesus)&#8221;, this is when the &#8220;inhabitants of the (whole) world will learn righteousness&#8221; and then it will be &#8220;in their hearts and minds&#8221;. They wont just know it, they will know it and practice it.

So yes, there is going to be a period where there is a destruction of all ungodly men and they will be utterly destroyed because they wont have any life. Eternity does not exist in the scriptures, its not at all scriptural. There are eons or ages, periods of time where only God knows the beginning and the endings. The times are indefinite to us because we are meant to know these things. They are not destroyed for eternity, nor are they punished eternally. If they were how could God become all in all?

We all will eventually be given immortality which is deathlessness or the ability to live from age to age, that&#8217;s why the proper term is eonian life/age-abiding life. Its not eternity because by definition in eternity nothing changes and once something changes it therefore can not be eternity. The &#8220;things of His Kingdom&#8221; will continue &#8220;to increase (grow)&#8221; and keep going and grow and keep going and grow and keep going.

I do not despise the OT but I personally prefer to believe and dwell in the up to date, simple and clear message of the NT.

I hope I shed some light on this for you. You are missing so much about your Saviour by taking away the &#8220;OT&#8221;.

Yes everyone on earth knows what is sin, everyone on earth knows what love is, every man knows what selfishness is, every human know what is the right thing to do, therefore judgments are made every day, unfortunately men ignores that he is living in his judgments time to his own peril.
I do not take away the OT. I simply do not dwell in it, because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord. and if you know Christ what else is there to know?

 

[AK4]

AK4 I do not understand how you can say that, because the foolishness of preaching is referring to " faith comes by hearing" So someone has to preach the gospel a very embarrassing and ambling thing to do so that people may receive the faith.
Also the message is foolish because it says in a nutshell "he died for our sins and God raised him from the dead" A stumbling block for the Jews, and foolishness for the Gentiles.

See you gotta learn to be able to see the whole Word as One. Never forget that. Everything must be in harmony and never contradict spiritually. With that in mind In that passsage Paul is just reiterating what Jesus said about no one can come Him except by the Father and no one can come to the Father except through HIm. Basically saying only God will give understanding to whomever He wills.

To those God has given understanding, they can preach till they turn blue and if God doesnt want whomever they are preaching to understand then they wont understand--thus by the foolishness of preaching God will save those who He (God) decides to give faith to.

How can i say that you may say. Notice: Jesus could have opened up the understanding to the jews back then IF He wanted to. Yes, if Jesus wanted to at that time He would have. Look

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (notice that understanding is given by God, man cant get it on their own)
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.13 Therefore speak I to them (those who are not given understanding--and this is still happening today) in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. (is this not still happen to this very day? you cant deny that. this is still in happening in MYSTERY BABYLON)
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: (and this prophecy is still being fulfilled yet "who believes our report")
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time (keyword here "anytime") they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Now go back up to verse 11 and what does it say---It was given unto YOU, but not unto THEM. So ask yourself why didnt Jesus want to heal (save) everyone? If you say because it was prophecied that way, well you still have to deal with...

Why did He make that prophecy even be spoken way back there by Isaiah.

Now you see Jesus preached and preached and preached in His ministry on earth and how many did He convert before He was crucified?

ZERO.

Yup zero. not one in His earthly ministry. I was going to go into the Paul verse next but that should be enough for you to see that it is by the foolishness of preaching God saves those that believe

Oh i forgot to add this verse to concrete what i put above

Eph 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Do you see the connection? "To you it (faith, and that not of yourselves) is given" but "unto them it (faith, which is not of themselves) is not given"

Oh about faith comes from hearing, yes this is very true, but what does the rest of it say

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report F39? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

"Hearing BY word of God" "For those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit says". Well we just established that it is God who gives (true) hearing to those He wills so once again we have "by the foolishness of preaching God "by faith, and that not of themselves" "has given until to YOU (his true disciples) the the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" saves those that believe (or given faith, that was not of themselves)

Yes did you notice that in Rom 10:18 they (this also includes everyone today jew and gentile) heard, they hear and see but what does the prophecy say

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:lest at any time (anytime, at ANYTIME Jesus wants to heal anyone) ....and I should heal them.

Ask yourself is the gospel only foolish to the jews and atheists and the like or can christians and their doctrines also make the gospel seem foolish too?

 

[AK4]

Yes everyone on earth knows what is sin, everyone on earth knows what love is, every man knows what selfishness is, every human know what is the right thing to do, therefore judgments are made every day, unfortunately men ignores that he is living in his judgments time to his own peril.
I do not take away the OT. I simply do not dwell in it, because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord. and if you know Christ what else is there to know?

Thats a general statement. For in some cultures what jews and christians may consider a sin, is not a sin in their culture. Some dont use the bible at all. Some may never really have even heard of Jesus.

unfortunately men ignores that he is living in his judgments time to his own peril.

I take it you still believe that this is the only day of salvation? And that not everyone who has every lived will be saved, including those in heaven, in earth and under the earth?

I do not take away the OT. I simply do not dwell in it, because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord. and if you know Christ what else is there to know?

Okay if this was true and you accept that Christ is the God of the OT, then you would know that Christ also uses evil. You said yourself you refuse to accept that. But as you say you can get all you need in the NT. Can you get this in the NT? Why yes you can. There are several instances Christ did this. I showed you how it was also used by the Apostles, you didnt want to accept that either.

There are things in Proverbs and Psalms about the Father and Christ that youd be hard pressed to find in the NT. Consider yourstatement because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord, and Jesus says about the Laodicea church.

Basically i am not dwelling in only one part of anywhere in the Word. To me and others who God has revealed this too its not a OT and NT thing. Its all One. At the end of John Christ repeatedly keeps emphasising this. He told the disciples if you can understand one parable you can understand them all---from the One book, One Word of God. The OT is full of parables, the Apostles writings are full of parables, the Gospels are not the only place where parables where spoken. But all these parables are One, but "Who has believed our report"

 

[free spirit]

AK4

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (notice that understanding is given by God, man cant get it on their own)
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.13 Therefore speak I to them (those who are not given understanding--and this is still happening today) in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. (is this not still happen to this very day? you cant deny that. this is still in happening in MYSTERY BABYLON)

You are so taken by that absolute theory that you do not see the small contribution that men is making, which is precious in the eyes of God.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
So, AK4 what did you hath, that God should give you more?
And if you cannot answer that question, answer this, What they hath not, that even what they hath should be taken away?

 

[free spirit]

Thats a general statement. For in some cultures what jews and christians may consider a sin, is not a sin in their culture. Some dont use the bible at all. Some may never really have even heard of Jesus.
Romans 10:18, "But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the end of the world."

unfortunately men ignores that he is living in his judgments time to his own peril.

I take it you still believe that this is the only day of salvation? And that not everyone who has every lived will be saved, including those in heaven, in earth and under the earth?
The day of salvation that concerns me is in my lifetime here; what happen after I have not say in it. I do not see any sense in speculating what may or may not happen.

I do not take away the OT. I simply do not dwell in it, because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord. and if you know Christ what else is there to know?

Okay if this was true and you accept that Christ is the God of the OT, then you would know that Christ also uses evil. You said yourself you refuse to accept that. But as you say you can get all you need in the NT. Can you get this in the NT? Why yes you can. There are several instances Christ did this. I showed you how it was also used by the Apostles, you didnt want to accept that either.
(Christ also uses evil) ?????????????

There are things in Proverbs and Psalms about the Father and Christ that youd be hard pressed to find in the NT. Consider yourstatement because the NT. is sufficient to know Christ my Lord, and Jesus says about the Laodicea church.

Basically i am not dwelling in only one part of anywhere in the Word. To me and others who God has revealed this too its not a OT and NT thing. Its all One. At the end of John Christ repeatedly keeps emphasising this. He told the disciples if you can understand one parable you can understand them all---from the One book, One Word of God. The OT is full of parables, the Apostles writings are full of parables, the Gospels are not the only place where parables where spoken. But all these parables are One, but "Who has believed our report"

The parable are for those who cannot and do not understand, to me it is all in plain language.

 

[AK4]

AK4



You are so taken by that absolute theory that you do not see the small contribution that men is making, which is precious in the eyes of God.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
So, AK4 what did you hath, that God should give you more?
And if you cannot answer that question, answer this, What they hath not, that even what they hath should be taken away?

I and just like everyone else only have what God has given me. To some He has given more and to some He has given less. Its the same as the talents parable. To whomever He gives whatever amount of talents if that person doesnt try to produce more with it they will be taken from them. Looking back, I had nothing at all before God starting calling me. Nothing special about me for God to even call me. I was at what most would say a good life or what women would call a man "a great catch"--everything going my way (worldly wise). But boy did God "strike me down" and start me over.

I had nothing before that "strike down" and i had nothing afterwards. After the strike down i went to God, but it seemed as if (since i was still carnally minded then) God had failed me. I began to hate God passionately. Then one day (i dont know specifically) He gave me enough faith to come after Him again. Looking back, I again was building my "spiritual house on the sand" (which for me was what is known out there as the christian religion) and not on the Rock (Christ). That "spiritual" house fell too and "how great was that fall" (sounds like house on the parable doesnt it). But the reason why that last house fell was because i still didnt build it on the Rock, but once His Truths starting coming to me my old christian religion house which was built on the sand fell with a bang and since God had starting given the eyes to see and the ears to hear i was now building my house on the Rock "And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a Rock."

I had nothing for God to call me at all in the first place. Now that He has given me some talents i must try to multiply them in me. Not hide the talent like the one man, not sit lukewarm like Laodicea. What has God given me? You all have been reading it in this thread, but of course and to be blunt but not boastful, to those it hasnt been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom i speak foolishly. I may be right in God eyes but to world i am dead wrong. But that bothers me not because i know that is how it is supposed to be in this age. Its frustrating but hey what can i do to thwart the will of God.

The only thing i can say i had was a willing open mind to what may be truth and what may be false (especially of what i was taught of by the church about God and Christ) and even to be able to have that willing mind is given by God especially since the christian teaching is just accept God and your saved and thats it, which is false. Through all this God has shown me that there is no room for boasting. All is of God, All is from God through Jesus. Who am i? Just as David said---i am a worm.

What they hath that even that it shall be taken away? Most importantly Jesus. From that, eonian (age-abiding) life. Without life for those eons or ages, when your dead ""there is no thoughts, no works nor device no contrivance, no intelligence, no reason, no knowledge, no wisdom, not anything" (Ecc. 9:10) then you lose everything.


Also what has man done that wasnt first given to him by God? Nothing

1 Cor 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? F19 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?

Oh if one has the eyes to see how scriptures like these destroy freewill and free moral agency.

As i tell any who are willing to hear---this world is almost all lies and darkness yet many refuse to see this.

 

[AK4]

Originally Posted by freespirit
The day of salvation that concerns me is in my lifetime here; what happen after I have not say in it. I do not see any sense in speculating what may or may not happen.

Okay i can understand that. theres no need to speculate though because in a general sense we are told what the Kingdom of God will do.

Okay if this was true You said yourself you refuse to accept that. But as you say you can get all you need in the NT. Can you get this in the NT? Why yes you can. There are several instances Christ did this. I showed you how it was also used by the Apostles, you didnt want to accept that either.

(Christ also uses evil) ?????????????

Did not Christ use Judas to help fulfill the scriptures? Was not Judas' betrayal an evil? Is not Christ the beginning of creation? So if that be the case, He also created Satan. Didnt Christ use Satan to fulfill a purpose? Didnt Christ have the power to keep satan from entering Peter? Why didnt He use His power to stop satan on judas? Is this Christ using evil to fulfill scripture? Did not Christ use the jews to have Him crucified for the world? Is not what the jews, killing their own Saviour an evil?

Christ never did evil, never sinned but if you answer those questions honestly and scripturally you will see what i am saying. He uses evil, He does no evil though. Only He can use it 100% of the time righteously.

And since Christ is the God of the OT as you conceed, you see where the disobedience of the jews and israelites brought about many evils. Did you know that God calls death an evil? Who is the only one who gives and can sustain life? Remember its not me who has said all this, this is in His word. You either believe it or not. The truth is hard to swallow, but it humbles you, really humbles you, trust me.

Oh one last thing doesnt God call the day of the Lord a day of evil? Yup

Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil. (Now you cant dismiss this as an OT thing because this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled)

Notice how that verse blatantly says God uses evil/the wicked.

The parable are for those who cannot and do not understand, to me it is all in plain language.

Yes, but its deeper than that. With all due respect even non-believers can get that. (Im just trying to get you to think deeper and more spiritually, not degrading you or nothing freespirit). So Spiritually what does that mean? Im trying to get you to open up your mind the "deep things of God".

 

[free spirit]

I and just like everyone else only have what God has given me. To some He has given more and to some He has given less. Its the same as the talents parable. To whomever He gives whatever amount of talents if that person doesnt try to produce more with it they will be taken from them. Looking back, I had nothing at all before God starting calling me. Nothing special about me for God to even call me. I was at what most would say a good life or what women would call a man "a great catch"--everything going my way (worldly wise). But boy did God "strike me down" and start me over.

I had nothing before that "strike down" and i had nothing afterwards. After the strike down i went to God, but it seemed as if (since i was still carnally minded then) God had failed me. I began to hate God passionately. Then one day (i dont know specifically) He gave me enough faith to come after Him again. Looking back, I again was building my "spiritual house on the sand" (which for me was what is known out there as the christian religion) and not on the Rock (Christ). That "spiritual" house fell too and "how great was that fall" (sounds like house on the parable doesnt it). But the reason why that last house fell was because i still didnt build it on the Rock, but once His Truths starting coming to me my old christian religion house which was built on the sand fell with a bang and since God had starting given the eyes to see and the ears to hear i was now building my house on the Rock "And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a Rock."

I had nothing for God to call me at all in the first place. Now that He has given me some talents i must try to multiply them in me. Not hide the talent like the one man, not sit lukewarm like Laodicea. What has God given me? You all have been reading it in this thread, but of course and to be blunt but not boastful, to those it hasnt been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom i speak foolishly. I may be right in God eyes but to world i am dead wrong. But that bothers me not because i know that is how it is supposed to be in this age. Its frustrating but hey what can i do to thwart the will of God.

The only thing i can say i had was a willing open mind to what may be truth and what may be false (especially of what i was taught of by the church about God and Christ) and even to be able to have that willing mind is given by God especially since the christian teaching is just accept God and your saved and thats it, which is false. Through all this God has shown me that there is no room for boasting. All is of God, All is from God through Jesus. Who am i? Just as David said---i am a worm.

What they hath that even that it shall be taken away? Most importantly Jesus. From that, eonian (age-abiding) life. Without life for those eons or ages, when your dead ""there is no thoughts, no works nor device no contrivance, no intelligence, no reason, no knowledge, no wisdom, not anything" (Ecc. 9:10) then you lose everything.


Also what has man done that wasnt first given to him by God? Nothing

1 Cor 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? F19 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?

Oh if one has the eyes to see how scriptures like these destroy freewill and free moral agency.

As i tell any who are willing to hear---this world is almost all lies and darkness yet many refuse to see this.

Well your faith is full of ups and dawns, I am glad you made it.
However we red in ACTS 10:1 - 2, "Now there was a certain man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the people, and prayed to God continually."
As you can see AK4 Cornelius in his flesh was godly, and also had faith: therefore God blessed him with the Holy Spirit, I do not need to tell you as a consequence of that His godliness and faith was increased abundantly.
So the parable in question is fulfilled and explained with the glory that it deserves. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Also Paul was considered faithfull for we read in 1 Timothy 1:12, "I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because he considered me faithful, putting me into service." As you can see the Lord strengthened Paul, in other word he increased his existing faith in abundance so Paul could serve.

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by freespirit
The day of salvation that concerns me is in my lifetime here; what happen after I have not say in it. I do not see any sense in speculating what may or may not happen.

Okay i can understand that. theres no need to speculate though because in a general sense we are told what the Kingdom of God will do.





Did not Christ use Judas to help fulfill the scriptures? Was not Judas' betrayal an evil? Is not Christ the beginning of creation? So if that be the case, He also created Satan. Didnt Christ use Satan to fulfill a purpose? Didnt Christ have the power to keep satan from entering Peter? Why didnt He use His power to stop satan on judas? Is this Christ using evil to fulfill scripture? Did not Christ use the jews to have Him crucified for the world? Is not what the jews, killing their own Saviour an evil?

Christ never did evil, never sinned but if you answer those questions honestly and scripturally you will see what i am saying. He uses evil, He does no evil though. Only He can use it 100% of the time righteously.

And since Christ is the God of the OT as you conceed, you see where the disobedience of the jews and israelites brought about many evils. Did you know that God calls death an evil? Who is the only one who gives and can sustain life? Remember its not me who has said all this, this is in His word. You either believe it or not. The truth is hard to swallow, but it humbles you, really humbles you, trust me.

Oh one last thing doesnt God call the day of the Lord a day of evil? Yup

Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil. (Now you cant dismiss this as an OT thing because this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled)

Notice how that verse blatantly says God uses evil/the wicked.




Yes, but its deeper than that. With all due respect even non-believers can get that. (Im just trying to get you to think deeper and more spiritually, not degrading you or nothing freespirit). So Spiritually what does that mean? Im trying to get you to open up your mind the "deep things of God".

Yes AK4 you are correct to say that all things come from God, I do agree on that point: but as I explained to you God is like the law, it is just, it is holy, but it can kill you also.
We have a limited freedom of choice, and God chooses us according to our choices. You need to loosen up a Little, believe me you have a Little leaven in your theory, if you stop blaming God it will go a long way in restoring your righteousness. You have helped me to understand a lot of things, I hope I can help you also.

 

[free spirit]

AK4

Did not Christ use Judas to help fulfill the scriptures? Was not Judas' betrayal an evil? Is not Christ the beginning of creation? So if that be the case, He also created Satan. Didnt Christ use Satan to fulfill a purpose? Didnt Christ have the power to keep satan from entering Peter? Why didnt He use His power to stop satan on judas? Is this Christ using evil to fulfill scripture? Did not Christ use the jews to have Him crucified for the world? Is not what the jews, killing their own Saviour an evil?

We read in John 12: 6, Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.'
Did Jesus made Judah a thief too? or was he dispossessed even of that little that he thought he had.
Yes evil people like the high priest are used by God and Christ, but God and Christ do not make evil people, People make evil choices so they become evil, it is their own fault. In our society we consider a mad man not responsible for his actions, are you saying we are all mad, hold on I may agree with you on this one.

 

[AK4]

We have a limited freedom of choice, and God chooses us according to our choices.

Here is a excerpt from an article about the theological term of limited freewill

LIMITED FREE WILL

​

The free will scholars themselves have had to re-adjust their theory in the light of obvious scientific and Scriptural proof against free will. They assure us that although man does not possess total free will, he does, nonetheless, possess "limited free will." That is, man’s will is limited, but within those limits, the will is completely and totally free. Oh really?

I never cease to be amazed at the fact that contradictions never interfere with Christian doctrine. Believing in contradictions is absolutely necessary if one is to accept most Christian doctrines, and this "limited free will" is just another one of them. Let’s take a quick look at this idiotic proposal of "limited free will." It is nothing more than the "square circles" theory all over again.

Here is how my Twentieth Century Webster’s Dictionary defines "limited, a. restricted" (Page 963). And here is how this same dictionary defines "free, a. without restriction" (Page 682). Got it? "Limited" means: RESTRICTED, and "free" means: WITHOUT RESTRICTION.

So scholarly theologians would have us believe that man possesses a will that is, "RESTRICTED WITHOUT RESTRICTION." What? Does anyone see a problem with this limited free will theory? Does the word "contradiction" come to mind?

Now then, if the natural carnal mind of man cannot choose to love and obey God, and God absolutely will not cause one to love and obey Him, how is it then that ANYONE CAN EVER BE CONVERTED? Do any of you who believe in man’s free will or man’s limited free will have an answer to this Scriptural dilemma? Or do you all feel more comfortable just leaving these questions behind as though they were never proposed in the first place? I mean, why meditate on a problem that has no Scriptural answer other than to accept the fact that the Scriptures do not support any form of a "free will" theory?

​

​

​

​

You need to loosen up a Little, believe me you have a Little leaven in your theory, if you stop blaming God it will go a long way in restoring your righteousness. You have helped me to understand a lot of things, I hope I can help you also.

Thanks. All glory to God. i am actually a pretty loose guy and "free". I dont go about acting religious or do the whole "holier than thou" thing or preaching to people. Its a matter of perspective---i dont go around "blaming" God, but i do know what it means when it says God is Soveriegn and do believe God has given me great amount of understanding on the whole doctrine and philosophy of freewill---what man feels and what the scriptures have to say on about it. Believe me i was once there like you and the rest of the world on freewill, limited freewill, free moral agency. Holding God responsible when He Himself says He is responsible is not me blaming Him. Its holding Him to His word and unlike the rest of the world i believe

...God, Who does not lie ...Titus 1:2 (CLV)

You know its sad that the christian church dont even believe this verse.

 

[AK4]

We read in John 12: 6, Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.'
Did Jesus made Judah a thief too? or was he dispossessed even of that little that he thought he had.

Just as pharaoh, the blind man from birth that was healed by Jesus, Judas, Paul and the Apostles, Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc etc were ""FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT F156 THE WHOLE EARTH." (Rom 9:17).

Judas didnt know that God had raised him up for that very purpose. Most likely To Judas, he thought it was all by his "freewill" or choices he did all those things. Just like most people in the world today think.

Yes evil people like the high priest are used by God and Christ, but God and Christ do not make evil people, People make evil choices so they become evil, it is their own fault. In our society we consider a mad man not responsible for his actions, are you saying we are all mad, hold on I may agree with you on this one.

Isn’t that the same thing that is used for the Lucifer/Satan story, which is yet another Christian hoax? They say “God didn’t create satan from the beginning a liar or a murderer or evil. No, when satan was Lucifer he was perfect and then by lucifer’s freewill he made himself evil and then became satan.” Now all that they say right there is against the scriptures.

Man, given by God a heart/mind, to which God Himself says “is only evil continually” “desperately weak” and “enmity (deep seated hatred)to God” to which God says He will change by Him Himself putting a new heart/mind in man.
So God takes responsibility to place a new heart in man, but man is/was solely responsible, like Lucifer, to keep the first heart/mind that was given to him by God (which was supposed to perfect at first). Their evil choices created themselves to be evil and God had nothing to do with it. God created, like Lucifer, man perfect but by their own fault they became evil by their choices.

Now think on that. Something made perfect had flawed. Then if that is the case it was never perfect. If you argue that something perfect can become flawed then can you not also argue that Jesus who is perfect can one day become flawed. No, no one will dare make that argument. But that is exactly what they are saying. Its speaking with a forked tongue. Lucifer ,was good, perfect but by his own fault became satan. Man, was good, perfect, but his own fault became evil. Jesus, is good, perfect, but since something perfect can become flawed and evil, can some day become flawed and evil, after all He can make choices too right?

Still believe God doesn’t create evil people? Yup youre right, He doesn’t. BUT does He create them with such a desperately weak heart that they, by the slightest whim, will volunteer to sin and have thoughts that are only evil continually. So is God responsible for giving man that kind of a heart when in the first place He could have given us the opposite heart? Yup. Am I the only one who sees this?

We hold madmen accountable for their actions; they themselves may not be “altogether” solely responsible. Madmen and even regular man gives in to their lusts of the eyes and heart and the pride of life. Something always causes this. It don’t just happen out of the blue. That’s one circumstance. Then they have the deceiver tempting them also, that’s another circumstance. Then you have who is the one that made everything and anything at all that one may be even tempted or have a heart/mind to fall for these temptations.

 

[AK4]

Well your faith is full of ups and dawns, I am glad you made it.
However we red in ACTS 10:1 - 2, "Now there was a certain man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the people, and prayed to God continually."
As you can see AK4 Cornelius in his flesh was godly, and also had faith: therefore God blessed him with the Holy Spirit, I do not need to tell you as a consequence of that His godliness and faith was increased abundantly.
So the parable in question is fulfilled and explained with the glory that it deserves. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

So once again, was Cornelius given this faith by God beforehand or did Cornelius achieve this by himself? You have to throw out so many verses of the Word to make it the latter.

You are looking at it from the after affect of what God did first for him. This would be the order of events scripturally--first Cornelius created. Cornelius sins. At sometime God gives Cornelius some kind of faith. Cornelius then grows more in the faith given to him by God. Because of the fatih given to him by God he does many wonderful things. God sends Peter to him to now give him the Holy Spirit. Cornelius faith grows more because of what God has given him.

Thats the order of events for him and anybody who comes to God. Theres no other way around it.

Also Paul was considered faithfull for we read in 1 Timothy 1:12, "I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because he considered me faithful, putting me into service." As you can see the Lord strengthened Paul, in other word he increased his existing faith in abundance so Paul could serve.

Youre not going deeper into the story or how it all began. Paul would be the first to tell, as he does throughout all his letters, that it was first God who did something that lead him to repentance. Before Paul was lead to Jesus was he not a waster of the faith? Then God did something, gave him faith and the result was that God "strengthened me, because he considered me faithful (with what he had recieved from God, i.e. the talents parable), putting me into service."

He was considered faithful because of with the talents given to him by God, he didnt hide it tell his Master returned. He (Paul) multiplied it..

 

[free spirit]

We read in John 12: 6, Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.'
Did Jesus made Judah a thief too? or was he dispossessed even of that little that he thought he had.

Just as pharaoh, the blind man from birth that was healed by Jesus, Judas, Paul and the Apostles, Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc etc were ""FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT F156 THE WHOLE EARTH." (Rom 9:17).
Judas didnt know that God had raised him up for that very purpose. Most likely To Judas, he thought it was all by his "freewill" or choices he did all those things. Just like most people in the world today think.

So you believe that God Had the poor man blind from birth so that he could be glorified by it? how could you think like that about the God that you worship. You believe the scriptures without spiritual insight, you cannot even see that it is a slander against God's holiness. The verse in question should read, John 9:3 to 4, "Jesus answered, it was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents. But in order that the works of God might be displayed in him we must work the works of him who sent me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no man can work."
You should know that God does not receive glory by making people blind or crippled or demon possessed, but he receive glory by healing people. how can you worship a monster like that, a schizophrenic God, It is like a fire-man that lights up fires so he can put them out and receive glory for saving the Town.
You are so wrong please reconsider.
For those who have eyes to see Jesus said "we must work the works of him" and he healed him, so the works of God are obvious.


Yes evil people like the high priest are used by God and Christ, but God and Christ do not make evil people, People make evil choices so they become evil, it is their own fault. In our society we consider a mad man not responsible for his actions, are you saying we are all mad, hold on I may agree with you on this one.

Isn&#8217;t that the same thing that is used for the Lucifer/Satan story, which is yet another Christian hoax? They say &#8220;God didn&#8217;t create satan from the beginning a liar or a murderer or evil. No, when satan was Lucifer he was perfect and then by lucifer&#8217;s freewill he made himself evil and then became satan.&#8221; Now all that they say right there is against the scriptures.

Man, given by God a heart/mind, to which God Himself says &#8220;is only evil continually&#8221; &#8220;desperately weak&#8221; and &#8220;enmity (deep seated hatred)to God&#8221; to which God says He will change by Him Himself putting a new heart/mind in man.
So God takes responsibility to place a new heart in man, but man is/was solely responsible, like Lucifer, to keep the first heart/mind that was given to him by God (which was supposed to perfect at first). Their evil choices created themselves to be evil and God had nothing to do with it. God created, like Lucifer, man perfect but by their own fault they became evil by their choices.

Now think on that. Something made perfect had flawed. Then if that is the case it was never perfect. If you argue that something perfect can become flawed then can you not also argue that Jesus who is perfect can one day become flawed. No, no one will dare make that argument. But that is exactly what they are saying. Its speaking with a forked tongue. Lucifer ,was good, perfect but by his own fault became satan. Man, was good, perfect, but his own fault became evil. Jesus, is good, perfect, but since something perfect can become flawed and evil, can some day become flawed and evil, after all He can make choices too right?

Still believe God doesn&#8217;t create evil people? Yup youre right, He doesn&#8217;t. BUT does He create them with such a desperately weak heart that they, by the slightest whim, will volunteer to sin and have thoughts that are only evil continually. So is God responsible for giving man that kind of a heart when in the first place He could have given us the opposite heart? Yup. Am I the only one who sees this?

We hold madmen accountable for their actions; they themselves may not be &#8220;altogether&#8221; solely responsible. Madmen and even regular man gives in to their lusts of the eyes and heart and the pride of life. Something always causes this. It don&#8217;t just happen out of the blue. That&#8217;s one circumstance. Then they have the deceiver tempting them also, that&#8217;s another circumstance. Then you have who is the one that made everything and anything at all that one may be even tempted or have a heart/mind to fall for these temptations. [/

If you have the freedom to choose right or wrong it is inevitable that after so many right decision you make a wrong one, and that is sufficient for evil to contaminate you, so God is wrong for giving us a choice, but God's plan is to make some of us like him so we can inherit him and rule the universe with him, but only a small number are chosen to reach that position, the rest God will judge and I know that he is just, they may live as you say, and I hope you are correct for he is merciful; but to me right now that is not my concern, it is out of my sphere of influence so why should I waste my time with it. Your theory takes away the hope that anyone can change and that is ungodly and cruel.
I sincerely hope that there are no many that think like you, I can absolutely guaranty you this; God has not made you the way you are today, the deceiver has had a lot to do with it.

 

[free spirit]

Well your faith is full of ups and dawns, I am glad you made it.
However we red in ACTS 10:1 - 2, "Now there was a certain man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the people, and prayed to God continually."
As you can see AK4 Cornelius in his flesh was godly, and also had faith: therefore God blessed him with the Holy Spirit, I do not need to tell you as a consequence of that His godliness and faith was increased abundantly.
So the parable in question is fulfilled and explained with the glory that it deserves. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

So once again, was Cornelius given this faith by God beforehand or did Cornelius achieve this by himself? You have to throw out so many verses of the Word to make it the latter.

You are looking at it from the after affect of what God did first for him. This would be the order of events scripturally--first Cornelius created. Cornelius sins. At sometime God gives Cornelius some kind of faith. Cornelius then grows more in the faith given to him by God. Because of the fatih given to him by God he does many wonderful things. God sends Peter to him to now give him the Holy Spirit. Cornelius faith grows more because of what God has given him.

Thats the order of events for him and anybody who comes to God. Theres no other way around it.

You have forgotten to include that Cornelius made the right willful choice and gave heed to the law; right now you are making a willful choice to resist the common sense approach to this discussion, are you aware of that?

Also Paul was considered faithful for we read in 1 Timothy 1:12, "I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because he considered me faithful, putting me into service." As you can see the Lord strengthened Paul, in other word he increased his existing faith in abundance so Paul could serve.

Youre not going deeper into the story or how it all began. Paul would be the first to tell, as he does throughout all his letters, that it was first God who did something that lead him to repentance. Before Paul was lead to Jesus was he not a waster of the faith? Then God did something, gave him faith and the result was that God "strengthened me, because he considered me faithful (with what he had recieved from God, i.e. the talents parable), putting me into service."

We read in Philippians 3:6 - 7, "As to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ."

He was considered faithful because of with the talents given to him by God, he didnt hide it tell his Master returned. He (Paul) multiplied it..
[/

please reconsider your position in the Lord for he is holy. It seems to me that you do not understand the concept of holiness.

 

[free spirit]

AK4
Judas didnt know that God had raised him up for that very purpose. Most likely To Judas, he thought it was all by his "freewill" or choices he did all those things. Just like most people in the world today think.

Judah felt remorse and hanged himself did God caused him to do that? Can you see were this theory is leading?

 

[free spirit]

AK4

Man, given by God a heart/mind, to which God Himself says &#8220;is only evil continually&#8221; &#8220;desperately weak&#8221; and &#8220;enmity (deep seated hatred)to God&#8221; to which God says He will change by Him Himself putting a new heart/mind in man.
So God takes responsibility to place a new heart in man, but man is/was solely responsible, like Lucifer, to keep the first heart/mind that was given to him by God (which was supposed to perfect at first). Their evil choices created themselves to be evil and God had nothing to do with it. God created, like Lucifer, man perfect but by their own fault they became evil by their choices.

Now think on that. Something made perfect had flawed. Then if that is the case it was never perfect. If you argue that something perfect can become flawed then can you not also argue that Jesus who is perfect can one day become flawed. No, no one will dare make that argument. But that is exactly what they are saying. Its speaking with a forked tongue. Lucifer ,was good, perfect but by his own fault became satan. Man, was good, perfect, but his own fault became evil. Jesus, is good, perfect, but since something perfect can become flawed and evil, can some day become flawed and evil, after all He can make choices too right?

Still believe God doesn&#8217;t create evil people? Yup youre right, He doesn&#8217;t. BUT does He create them with such a desperately weak heart that they, by the slightest whim, will volunteer to sin and have thoughts that are only evil continually. So is God responsible for giving man that kind of a heart when in the first place He could have given us the opposite heart? Yup. Am I the only one who sees this?

Those that become evil always act for self interest; Like Satan, he wanted to be like the most high; man wanted to have the knowledge of good and evil like God, Judah acted for thirty peaces of silver, the high priest had Jesus put to death because he did not want his position and the Jewish religion to disappear. All those who's sin was recorded in the bible did it for selfish motives. Only Jesus acted unselfishly and gave his life for us.

 

[AK4]

So you believe that God Had the poor man blind from birth so that he could be glorified by it? how could you think like that about the God that you worship. You believe the scriptures without spiritual insight, you cannot even see that it is a slander against God's holiness. The verse in question should read, John 9:3 to 4,

This reminds me of something I read before from&#8216;The Berean Call.&#8217; You know what Berean means,
&#8220;we searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things to be so or not.&#8221; (Acts17:11).
The only problem is, they come up with every unscriptural heresy you could imagine.
But from &#8216;The Bereans call,&#8217; we have this;
&#8220;Thus God would be the author of evil (this is in suggestion, that if we didn&#8217;t have free will, then this would be the case) and we have the contradiction of God telling them (in the garden, Adam and Eve) not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him, a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.&#8221;

Well there it is. How do we ever know we have a free will? Because if we didn&#8217;t, then what God does is repugnant.
What did they just admit? They just admitted, without knowing it, that they think that God, His plan, His Word, His truths are repugnant.

Rom 8:7 &#8220;because the carnal mind (that&#8217;s the natural mind, but do not think that it says the evil mind or the despotic mind or the perverted mind, but carnal and carnal means natural fleshly mind of man) is enmity ( which mean deep seated hatred- hates God) against God, for it is not subject to the (spiritual) Law of God, neither indeed can it be(made subject):&#8221;

See when one doesn&#8217;t understand this freewill business and know Gods Plan or really understand the Sovereignty of God and God working in all, and wont let go of the idol of the heart of freewill then it all seems repugnant what God is doing.
Tell me is what you stated above in scripture or is what I stated above in scripture. Over and over again God states He does something like this so that He will be glorified, that every knee will bow to Him and confess that He is Lord, yet mans reasoning and idol of the heart of freewill refuses to see plainly these truths. Its repugnant to them. Gods plan for the His entire creation is repugnant to them.

I do not question His holiness. In knowing His plan and seeing what He is doing it makes me glorify Him more and more. I do not like the evils in the world but i know it is necessary and i dont God "what do you think you are doing"

Did you pay attention to all the words in that passage? Notice--- And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And then Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

This man was born blind for the sole purpose that the works of God are manifested. Are you saying this happened by coincidence? If so, then who is slandering His holiness? Same thing Paul wrote about the pharaoh and what God said about him

Ro 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

yet when you deny Gods plain words is it not calling His word repugnant? Is it not &#8220;despising My word&#8221;?
Now this is what you say &#8230;You should know that God does not receive glory by making people blind or crippled or demon possessed, but he receive glory by healing people. how can you worship a monster like that, a schizophrenic God, It is like a fire-man that lights up fires so he can put them out and receive glory for saving the Town.

So lets see, we have Gods word &#8220;Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

verses yours
that God does not receive glory by making people blind or crippled or demon possessed, but he receive glory by healing people. how can you worship a monster like that, a schizophrenic God


Which do you/should you believe? I could pull in more and more scriptures to show this same thing. Will you still deny His words?

You are so wrong please reconsider.
For those who have eyes to see Jesus said "we must work the works of him" and he healed him, so the works of God are obvious.


The works of God here are not in question. Its rather if God raised up this guy or any vessel of dishonor to show His power and bring Him glory. You have to come to grips with either mans reasoning or the Word. What saith the Word&#8212;

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lumpto make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted F36 to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

It takes spiritual eyes to see thru this damnable heresy of freewill that directly attacks the sovereignty of God. This idol of the heart will not let people see the spiritual truth of His Word to bring spiritual insight. It is slander to say that God cannot do whatever He wants to show His power and glory. Its slander to say that God cannot and will not create a blind man from birth for a purpose. Like I said when one doesn&#8217;t know the plan of God and the truth of the Word is shown to them---Gods plan and Word becomes repugnant.

If you have the freedom to choose right or wrong it is inevitable that after so many right decision you make a wrong one,

Where is our ability to choose free? How in any way can our choices be free from any influence? Something always influences our choices, our will. Its not free. We have an ability to choose but we don&#8217;t an ability to choose free from any influence.

and that is sufficient for evil to contaminate you, so God is wrong for giving us a choice,

How is God wrong for giving us a choice? If we had no choice, how would we learn? How would we appreciate any thing? If we never experienced evil, how would we appreciate the good? It was full of wisdom and knowledge that God has given mankind an experience of evil so we can learn righteousness and be humbled by it.