Do you really believe that Jesus died for our sins?

[fallingblood]

And I will ask you again: if you are talking about Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah who is a direct descendant of Solomon the son of Bathsheba and David, as recorded in the gospel according to Matthew, which states that he wasn't even married to the pregnant unmarried Mary when the angel appeared to him in a dream, and that this Joseph did not have sexual intercourse with Mary until after she had given birth to her first son.

The fact that you personaly believe without any evidence whatsoever, that Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, had unprotected sex with Mary and that the sperm of Joseph then fertilized Mary's egg, and Jesus was conceived, and that nine months later, Jesus was born. Then this is all but a figment of your own imagination.

First, I used common sense. My explanation is how babies are born. Second, I've stated that the birth stories are just later creations superimposed onto the Jesus tradition. It is the same thing that happened with Buddha, or closer to Jesus, Augustus.

There is much more evidence for my idea then your idea that no respectable scholar, minister, or anyone serious about the history of Christianity would even accept as somewhat true.

Of course it was clear what you were saying, and you may as well say that Jesus was born as a nine foot giant, I mean, when you wish to make up stories out of your own sick head, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, you can say what ever you want to. Mind you, no one is going to believe you, but you can say whatever you wish.

Make up stories? The fore most authorities on the historical Jesus support what I'm saying. This is not something I "made up in my sick own head," it is something that has the backing of the majority of authorities on the subject of a historical Jesus, as well as the majority of scholars who deal with Jesus and the New Testament. Anyone serious about a historical Jesus will have read all that I've stated, as it is the most widely accepted conclusion.

Also, personally attacking me on the same grounds that one could attack you simply does not fly for a logical debate. You have no evidence, your only support is a spirit that one can not logical debate as all logic goes out the window once you start ranting off that mumbo jumbo, as another poster put so well.

And so say all the godless.

This is just one more reason a logical debate can not be had with you. Instead of actually debating, you just dismiss evidence right out by some logical fallacy.


Don't worry about answering any questions though, because you've shown that you simply can't. Spouting off stuff that a supposed inner spirit tells you does not equal evidence. You have no evidence. Your ideas fly in the face of modern scholars, as well as the authorities on the subject. Why should one though away all of the credible knowledge that we have that has been accumulated over many years just because an inner spirit told you otherwise? It is not logical to do. Being a rational person, I would rather believe the authorities on the subject, as well as the scholars as they have dedicated themselves to learning as much about this subject as possible. And, unlike you find the need to state, many of them are not godless, and even if they are, it means absolutely nothing. Logical fallacies do not count as credible debate.

 

[Thief]

I would hesitate to add to such a severe digression.....however...

The parables told by the Carpenter are fictional stories.
The characters might resemble living people...even people at hand.
(Supposedly the pharisees were offended for such things)

So where do 'logical' fallacies begin?

The 'big bang' is a logical fallacy.
There is no proof. Some people contend the universe just 'popped' into being.

Logic is a tool.
Well used, it carries a line of thought further and correctly.
But it is so dependent on accepted ideas.

Drawing lines are we?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The 'big bang' is a logical fallacy.
There is no proof. Some people contend the universe just 'popped' into being.

According to Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; 32:17 it was God that supplied the needed dynamic 'energy' for creation of the material world and strength to maintain the universe.

 

[footprints]

Well excuse me. I could have sworn you were quoting Paul.
Jesus had the intention of teaching, not dictating. I will agree that one can find parallels in Confuscious, Budda, etc. In a way, great teachers were localized. You have missed my point in this thread, and that is that what Christians parrot as a mantra is a false teaching and not derived from Jesus.
You can't complain about no definitive or verifiable record of Jesus doctrine really exisiting, but an elightened person should know what Jesus didn't teach.
Craig

There are no paralles between the paths of enlightenment left by Confuscious, Buddha et al as compared to the one left by Lord Jesus. The path left by Jesus works on an entirely different process and why it is by far the quickest way to reach enlightenment. There is however similarities in the phrases they used, all enlightened people speak in the same voice and carry the same intent and meaning.

You say I missed the point of the thread, I say I didn't. There are many ways a person can teach.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The 'big bang' is a logical fallacy.

Arg. I constantly see people describing things they don't agree with as 'logical fallacy'.

This is not the case.

Please refrain from using this expression until such a time as you know what it means.

 

[Thief]

As if I didn't understand.....But of course I do.

This thread is aimed..supposedly.... at a doctrine of faith.
Faith by definition needs no proving.

Logic is not the primary tool.

Therefore, this discussion should have been a rational to explain how anyone could take your transgressions upon Himself, and in the act of dying...nullify your consequence for having transgressed.

As stated in a previous post....I don't think so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As if I didn't understand.....But of course I do.
This thread is aimed..supposedly.... at a doctrine of faith.
Faith by definition needs no proving.
Logic is not the primary tool.
Therefore, this discussion should have been a rational to explain how anyone could take your transgressions upon Himself, and in the act of dying...nullify your consequence for having transgressed.
As stated in a previous post....I don't think so.

Jesus proved his faith or belief by logically basing his teachings on the Hebrew OT Scriptures. Jesus often referred or quoted Scripture before replying.

Although it is no fault of our own, because we were born imperfect because we are all born after Adam's fall into imperfection, we sin or make mistakes.
If we could stop sinning we would not die. Since we can't stop we die.
None of us can redeem another or oneself from the grave.
We can not resurrect oneself or another so we need someone that can do that for us. By God sending his heavenly Son to earth being his Father instead of an imperfect earthly father, then Jesus could be born with the same original human perfection of mind and body that Adam originally had. Thus Jesus perfect life had ransom value. Jesus could be a corresponding ransom for what Adam did. Jesus could undo for us what Adam brought upon us.
Romans 5:12-19.

Actually it is 'death' that nullifies our transgressions. Except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, it is our death that STAMPS the price tag as "Paid In Full" Please see Romans 6:7; 6:23.
So although one's 'death' is the wages or price of sin we still could not resurrect oneself or another. Being perfect and faithful [Job 2:4,5] Jesus
took the value of his sacrifice to heaven [Hebrews 9:24-28] opening up the way for everlasting deliverance from sin and death starting with Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth.

 

[S-word]

As if I didn't understand.....But of course I do.

This thread is aimed..supposedly.... at a doctrine of faith.
Faith by definition needs no proving.

Logic is not the primary tool.

Therefore, this discussion should have been a rational to explain how anyone could take your transgressions upon Himself, and in the act of dying...nullify your consequence for having transgressed.

As stated in a previous post....I don't think so.

Correct! And the only personality who can take the sins of the body of mankind upon himself, is the immortal spirt which develops within the body of mankind, gaining all his great wisdom, knowledge and insight from the pain and the suffering endured by his body, which pain and suffering is caused by the sins and mistakes of we, the body in which "The Son Of Man" the fourth dimensional being who is born perfect with the death of the body in which he developed.

He who is the perfected compilation of all that he was, is the only personalily who can be held accountable for the sins of the life of his body on earth, which body is that of mankind. When the required number of Jews and gentiles are gathered at the second Temple that is soon to appear on earth, which is the Spiritual body of Elijah the prophet of fire: and although he cannot die, the immotal one will descend through time and enter the first temple where he shall be treated with outrage and hung upon a tree. And when the veil to that temple is torn, the spirit of the anointed one who cannont die, will be poured out as fire upon the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through the mouth of the first Temple that he filled with his spirit which had descended in the form of a dove upon the head of the body that God had prepared for his only begotten Son who was born of his prostitute bride, the body of mankind. Psalms 51:5; "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me."

All those who now cannot die, those who had believed his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus of Nazareth, who came in the name of the Lord and spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by his indwelling spirit, who was "The Son of Man," who had came down and entered the first temple that his father had prepared for him. Hebrew 10: 5-7; "When the anointed one, (The only man to have ever ascended into heaven where he was stripped of his mortal garments and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun. whereafter, clothed and girded with fire, he was chosen to serve God before the body of Adam/mankind, into all eternity.") was about to come into the world, he said to God ; "Sacrifices and offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me (Past tense).

All those who received a share of the hidden manna, a righteous spirit of fire from the spiritual enclosure of the immortal "Son of Man", who gives his immortal body as an inheritance to those he chooses, which chosen ones, who have been judged in the flesh as all men are judged, now, in their immortal spiritual existence, live as God lives.

Gathering to themselves the required number of the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for any mistakes that they had in their lives on earth. And when the required number of righteous spirits have been gathered by each of the immortals who possess the ransom blood for one man who is true to his indwelling spirit, they will choose their Heir as did the immortal Enoch, and they will be reborn on earth in their chosen host body, over who, like the body of Jesus, death shall have no power . And they shall take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule, not only the earth and all thereon, but even the heavenly beings, for they are the first born of God and heirs to the throne of the Most High.

Except for those over whom death has no power, who, at the sound of the last trumpet, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible and blinding light, such as the new body of our brother and elected Lord and King, who was the first fruits to be raised from the dead past of our saviour, and who appeared to Saul in his new body of light on the road to Damascus and identified himself as Jesus of Nazareth. It was Paul, who was an apostle of Jesus Christ by order of God our saviour and Jesus Christ our hope, who said; "There is a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body, but it is the physical body that comes first. And as we have borne the image of the first man "Adam," so shall we bear the image of the second man, "Jesus," who was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and who is now incontestably divine. The good spirits whose righteous blood was the ransom price for the host bodies of the immortals: after all life upon the earth has been incinerated, and after the thousand year rule of the elect and chosen ones when fire comes down from heaven and destroys all that remains on this planet, will be reborn on this earth when conditions are once again able to sustain physical life forms, and after renewing the earth with plants and animals, the Lord will say, "And now, Let us make man in our image and likeness."

 

[footprints]

Arg. I constantly see people describing things they don't agree with as 'logical fallacy'.

This is not the case.

Please refrain from using this expression until such a time as you know what it means.

The Big Bang is a logical fallacy (at least to our knowledge base to date), as is every other theory which attempts to explain the origin of the universe. They all start off with an unspoken premise, that either A) Something was created from nothing or, B) We can have an effect without a cause.

Please refrain from chastising others, until such a time as you know what it means.

 

[S-word]

The Big Bang is a logical fallacy (at least to our knowledge base to date), as is every other theory which attempts to explain the origin of the universe. They all start off with an unspoken premise, that either A) Something was created from nothing or, B) We can have an effect without a cause.

Please refrain from chastising others, until such a time as you know what it means.

And what do you propose to be a better model than the Big Bang for the origin of the universe, according to the accummulated data that has been gathered by mankind to this point in time? Beliefs will always evolve as better data is gathered, but one must have a belief to evolve.

 

[xxclaro]

Correct! And the only personality who can take the sins of the body of mankind upon himself, is the immortal spirt which develops within the body of mankind, gaining all his great wisdom, knowledge and insight from the pain and the suffering endured by his body, which pain and suffering is caused by the sins and mistakes of we, the body in which "The Son Of Man" the fourth dimensional being who is born perfect with the death of the body in which he developed.

He who is the perfected compilation of all that he was, is the only personalily who can be held accountable for the sins of the life of his body on earth, which body is that of mankind. When the required number of Jews and gentiles are gathered at the second Temple that is soon to appear on earth, which is the Spiritual body of Elijah the prophet of fire: and although he cannot die, the immotal one will descend through time and enter the first temple where he shall be treated with outrage and hung upon a tree. And when the veil to that temple is torn, the spirit of the anointed one who cannont die, will be poured out as fire upon the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through the mouth of the first Temple that he filled with his spirit which had descended in the form of a dove upon the head of the body that God had prepared for his only begotten Son who was born of his prostitute bride, the body of mankind. Psalms 51:5; "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me."

All those who now cannot die, those who had believed his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus of Nazareth, who came in the name of the Lord and spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by his indwelling spirit, who was "The Son of Man," who had came down and entered the first temple that his father had prepared for him. Hebrew 10: 5-7; "When the anointed one, (The only man to have ever ascended into heaven where he was stripped of his mortal garments and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun. whereafter, clothed and girded with fire, he was chosen to serve God before the body of Adam/mankind, into all eternity.") was about to come into the world, he said to God ; "Sacrifices and offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me (Past tense).

All those who received a share of the hidden manna, a righteous spirit of fire from the spiritual enclosure of the immortal "Son of Man", who gives his immortal body as an inheritance to those he chooses, which chosen ones, who have been judged in the flesh as all men are judged, now, in their immortal spiritual existence, live as God lives.

Gathering to themselves the required number of the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for any mistakes that they had in their lives on earth. And when the required number of righteous spirits have been gathered by each of the immortals who possess the ransom blood for one man who is true to his indwelling spirit, they will choose their Heir as did the immortal Enoch, and they will be reborn on earth in their chosen host body, over who, like the body of Jesus, death shall have no power . And they shall take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule, not only the earth and all thereon, but even the heavenly beings, for they are the first born of God and heirs to the throne of the Most High.

Except for those over whom death has no power, who, at the sound of the last trumpet, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible and blinding light, such as the new body of our brother and elected Lord and King, who was the first fruits to be raised from the dead past of our saviour, and who appeared to Saul in his new body of light on the road to Damascus and identified himself as Jesus of Nazareth. It was Paul, who was an apostle of Jesus Christ by order of God our saviour and Jesus Christ our hope, who said; "There is a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body, but it is the physical body that comes first. And as we have borne the image of the first man "Adam," so shall we bear the image of the second man, "Jesus," who was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and who is now incontestably divine. The good spirits whose righteous blood was the ransom price for the host bodies of the immortals: after all life upon the earth has been incinerated, and after the thousand year rule of the elect and chosen ones when fire comes down from heaven and destroys all that remains on this planet, will be reborn on this earth when conditions are once again able to sustain physical life forms, and after renewing the earth with plants and animals, the Lord will say, "And now, Let us make man in our image and likeness."

Wow. Well, I've read the Bible myself, a few times over. I was raised in a fundametalist Christian church and for many years believed fully in the teachings I recieved. I don't think I ever heard it put quite the way you wrote it though. Is this your own personal interpretation of the scriptures?

 

[footprints]

And what do you propose to be a better model than the Big Bang for the origin of the universe, according to the accummulated data that has been gathered by mankind to this point in time? Beliefs will always evolve as better data is gathered, but one must have a belief to evolve.

The Big Bang and all other theories start from a point after the absolute Alpha point of universe. Well that is not completely true, some hypothesis extend the suggestion that the universe has always existed, that there was no absolute alpha point for the universe has always existed, or, an effect without a cause. Both of course are God scenarios. Creating something from nothing, or something always existing.

On a personal level I do not hold any theory or hypothesis pertaining to the universe over any other, each has their valid points and reason can be found in them. The Big Bang down some lines, all but replaced by the Inflation Universe theories. On a rational level, we still cannot even define what the Universe is, let alone try to explain it rationally and logically. We know our own galaxy is expanding, is the universe equally expanding, and if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into to. For that matter, if the universe isn't expanding, what is this space which the universe now occupies and where did that come from. The mind boggles at the very thought of the universe, its improbability is so low as to be insignificant, yet here against all odds, it is, in all its beauty and untold knowledge.

Whether it is clear to us or not, the universe is unfolding as it should.

Where mankind is concerned, the cycle of life unfolds as it should, according to the path that we walk.

 

[S-word]

Wow. Well, I've read the Bible myself, a few times over. I was raised in a fundametalist Christian church and for many years believed fully in the teachings I recieved. I don't think I ever heard it put quite the way you wrote it though. Is this your own personal interpretation of the scriptures?

It is the compilation of all the best spiritual food that I have eaten from the tables that have been prepared by all the different christian, Muslim and Buddhist religions etc. And as the spirt forms and maintains my physical body, from the physical food that I take in, without me having to worry about what I should or should not eat, so too does my indwelling spirit form from the spiritual food that I eat, the Spirit/mind that is "I."

So no! This is not my own personal interpretation, but the truth of scriptures as revealed by the spirit that my God sent into the world.

 

[S-word]

The Big Bang and all other theories start from a point after the absolute Alpha point of universe. Well that is not completely true, some hypothesis extend the suggestion that the universe has always existed, that there was no absolute alpha point for the universe has always existed, or, an effect without a cause. Both of course are God scenarios. Creating something from nothing, or something always existing.

On a personal level I do not hold any theory or hypothesis pertaining to the universe over any other, each has their valid points and reason can be found in them. The Big Bang down some lines, all but replaced by the Inflation Universe theories. On a rational level, we still cannot even define what the Universe is, let alone try to explain it rationally and logically. We know our own galaxy is expanding, is the universe equally expanding, and if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into to. For that matter, if the universe isn't expanding, what is this space which the universe now occupies and where did that come from. The mind boggles at the very thought of the universe, its improbability is so low as to be insignificant, yet here against all odds, it is, in all its beauty and untold knowledge.

Whether it is clear to us or not, the universe is unfolding as it should.

Where mankind is concerned, the cycle of life unfolds as it should, according to the path that we walk.

So you're bumbling about in a dark room full of goodies, with all your lights turned out, not being able to find, let alone choose the goodies that you aren't particularally looking for in any case.

 

[Ardipithecus]

Josephus mentions Jesus and James in his book Antiquities of the Jews. This is not heresay according to your claim of nothing historical being written. You need to cite your quote of any article or web page.
Craig

You just admitted it was hearsay.All we have is the supposed word of James, if there was a real James.

Josephus never met Jesus. His controversial verse describing Christians or Chrestus is clearly fraudulent. Scholars have shown that the brief statements about Jesus was written in a different style than Josephus. Not only that but Jesus followers were not called Christian until long after the time of Jesus.

It most likely was a forgery (false statement) placed years later in Josephus's works to give credibility to the lack of real evidence. All mentions by Roman writers who mention Christianity were using hearsay evidence. There is no independent evidence for Jesus. Even the gospels were written later in the 1st Century and early 2nd Century.

No Roman writer ever claimed to have met Jesus. Paul never met Jesus. Obsessive Roman records fail to mention Jesus but did mention many other dissidents, rebels, and political usurpers. Over the years and centuries the fictional version approved by Athanasius, Emperor Constintinus, and aggressively pursued by Theodosius I and Theodosius II by the mass persecutions and extermination of Pagans beginning in 393 CE.

Thus began the Dark Ages. Greek philosophy and science was suppressed and scrolls burned when Christian Monks vandalized the Great Library of Alexandria and killed Hypatia the brilliant woman philosopher and scientist in a dreadfully cruel manner..People in Europe lost the information of the Greek Sciences and philosophers. They faced persecution for claiming the world was a sphere and not flat. Those who inquired were executed for sorcery or infidelity. Ancient Greeks discovered that the Sun was centre of the Solar System. Such belief was illegal until Copernicus proved the Heliocentric Solar System in a Protestant country more open to scientific discovery. Ancient Greeks postulated evolution of all life from creatures in the sea. That too got one's head on the chopping block or the burning stake.

It is sad that people were so gullible to believe the irrational Jesus story and Genesis. However, the Church had all Monarchs under pressure to continue enforcing the archaic and wrong]/b] Bible beliefs under fear of pain and death.

Ardipithecus

 

[footprints]

So you're bumbling about in a dark room full of goodies, with all your lights turned out, not being able to find, let alone choose the goodies that you aren't particularally looking for in any case.

One could say that.

Equally said, that my light is brighter than some other lights, which enables me to see more clearly, than others can see around me.

All is a matter of perspective.

It isn't where we come from which matters, it is where we are going to which counts.

 

[Reverend Rick]

God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself and to change a rule he himself made in order to save us from a hell he himself created. How can anyone not understand that?

You certainly have stated this well. I must admit you have gave me something to think about.

 

[S-word]

You just admitted it was hearsay.All we have is the supposed word of James, if there was a real James.

Josephus never met Jesus. His controversial verse describing Christians or Chrestus is clearly fraudulent. Scholars have shown that the brief statements about Jesus was written in a different style than Josephus. Not only that but Jesus followers were not called Christian until long after the time of Jesus.

It most likely was a forgery (false statement) placed years later in Josephus's works to give credibility to the lack of real evidence. All mentions by Roman writers who mention Christianity were using hearsay evidence. There is no independent evidence for Jesus. Even the gospels were written later in the 1st Century and early 2nd Century.

No Roman writer ever claimed to have met Jesus. Paul never met Jesus. Obsessive Roman records fail to mention Jesus but did mention many other dissidents, rebels, and political usurpers. Over the years and centuries the fictional version approved by Athanasius, Emperor Constintinus, and aggressively pursued by Theodosius I and Theodosius II by the mass persecutions and extermination of Pagans beginning in 393 CE.

Thus began the Dark Ages. Greek philosophy and science was suppressed and scrolls burned when Christian Monks vandalized the Great Library of Alexandria and killed Hypatia the brilliant woman philosopher and scientist in a dreadfully cruel manner..People in Europe lost the information of the Greek Sciences and philosophers. They faced persecution for claiming the world was a sphere and not flat. Those who inquired were executed for sorcery or infidelity. Ancient Greeks discovered that the Sun was centre of the Solar System. Such belief was illegal until Copernicus proved the Heliocentric Solar System in a Protestant country more open to scientific discovery. Ancient Greeks postulated evolution of all life from creatures in the sea. That too got one's head on the chopping block or the burning stake.

It is sad that people were so gullible to believe the irrational Jesus story and Genesis. However, the Church had all Monarchs under pressure to continue enforcing the archaic and wrong]/b] Bible beliefs under fear of pain and death.

Ardipithecus

Paul never met Jesus.
No, but Saul did, when Jesus of Nazareth, in his new body of light, who was the first fruits to be raised from the dead past of the "Son of Man" who came down through time and gave his immortal spiritual body of blinding light as the inheritance to all those who believe his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only what he was commanded to say by his indwelling spirit, who descended upon him in the form of a dove, met Saul on the road to Damascus.

You should read “JESUS: The Evidence” by Ian Wilson, P. 127; “Of the fate of James (The brother of the Lord, whose biological father was Cleopas who is also called Alphaeus, and was the step father of Jesus at the time of his crucifixion, being the husband of one of the only two women at the cross of Jesus by the name Mary, the other was Mary Magdalene.) we learn from Josephus, Eusebius and Hegesippus, that after leading a life of great piety, worshipping daily in the Temple, and winning great respect from the ordinary people, in 62 AD he was murdered at the instigation of one of that same Sadducee sect responsible for the death of Stephen, and of his brother Jesus. He was subsequently succeeded by Simeon the son of Cleopas.”

Simeon was the half brother to James the younger of Mary’s three biological sons, “Jesus, Joseph, and James the younger,” who was the biological son of Mary and Alphaeus/Cleophas. And Cleopas/Alphaeus was also the father of Simeon and Thomas Didymus Jude, who were born of another woman. These are the four brothers of Jesus, who are recorded in Matthew 13: 55; as, “Joseph, James, Simeon and Jude.”

 

[fallingblood]

Paul never met Jesus.
No, but Saul did, when Jesus of Nazareth, in his new body of light, who was the first fruits to be raised from the dead past of the "Son of Man" who came down through time and gave his immortal spiritual body of blinding light as the inheritance to all those who believe his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only what he was commanded to say by his indwelling spirit, who descended upon him in the form of a dove, met Saul on the road to Damascus.

You should read “JESUS: The Evidence” by Ian Wilson, P. 127; “Of the fate of James (The brother of the Lord, whose biological father was Cleopas who is also called Alphaeus, and was the step father of Jesus at the time of his crucifixion, being the husband of one of the only two women at the cross of Jesus by the name Mary, the other was Mary Magdalene.) we learn from Josephus, Eusebius and Hegesippus, that after leading a life of great piety, worshipping daily in the Temple, and winning great respect from the ordinary people, in 62 AD he was murdered at the instigation of one of that same Sadducee sect responsible for the death of Stephen, and of his brother Jesus. He was subsequently succeeded by Simeon the son of Cleopas.”

Simeon was the half brother to James the younger of Mary’s three biological sons, “Jesus, Joseph, and James the younger,” who was the biological son of Mary and Alphaeus/Cleophas. And Cleopas/Alphaeus was also the father of Simeon and Thomas Didymus Jude, who were born of another woman. These are the four brothers of Jesus, who are recorded in Matthew 13: 55; as, “Joseph, James, Simeon and Jude.”

So, Mary was married to Joseph, and then got a divorce, and then married this Cleopas? Do you know how likely that would have been? Are you also aware that there is no evidence, like many of the things you say, to even suggest that?


And no, Paul (who is Saul) never met Jesus. Jesus was dead. He died on the cross. There was no resurrection. Instead, what happened was something that was very common in the first century. The dead "appeared" to the living. It was something that commonly happened. Today, we know that one should not take those stories to be true though. Paul simply claims this vision in a way to try to gain authority. What Paul was teaching was not what Jesus taught. James, the brother of Jesus, and Paul opposed each other. James, as his brother also had, observed Judaism and were Jewish-Christians (modern definition) as opposed to Paul, a Pagan-Christian (modern definition). So it is not logical to assume that Jesus told Paul one thing while having taught James another. Why would he purposely set-up to factions of the same belief that opposed each other?

 

[S-word]

So, Mary was married to Joseph, and then got a divorce, and then married this Cleopas? Do you know how likely that would have been? Are you also aware that there is no evidence, like many of the things you say, to even suggest that?


And no, Paul (who is Saul) never met Jesus. Jesus was dead. He died on the cross. There was no resurrection. Instead, what happened was something that was very common in the first century. The dead "appeared" to the living. It was something that commonly happened. Today, we know that one should not take those stories to be true though. Paul simply claims this vision in a way to try to gain authority. What Paul was teaching was not what Jesus taught. James, the brother of Jesus, and Paul opposed each other. James, as his brother also had, observed Judaism and were Jewish-Christians (modern definition) as opposed to Paul, a Pagan-Christian (modern definition). So it is not logical to assume that Jesus told Paul one thing while having taught James another. Why would he purposely set-up to factions of the same belief that opposed each other?

Each of the gospels shows only two women by the name of Mary, at the cross, the burial, and the empty tomb of Jesus, and they are Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James the younger and Joseph. James the younger who is the biological son of Alphaeus/Cleopas is the brother of Jesus, as is Joseph. Simon and Jude, are the sons of Alphaeus/Cleopas to another woman, And James the younger, Joseph , Simon and Jude who is also called Thomas The Twin/Didymus Jude, are the four brothers of Jesus that are recorded in Matthew 13: 55.

Luke does not mention the names of the women at the crucifixion and the burial, but does say that Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James were at the empty Tomb. Mark names only Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger, who we know is the brother of Jesus and the son of Alphaeus/Cleopas, and another woman by the name of Salome. Mark then goes on to say that at the burial was Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph, and goes on to say that at the empty tomb was Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and the other woman named Salome.

Matthew 27: 55; tells us that standing by the cross, were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and also the woman who was the mother of James and John the sons of Zebedee. Then in verse 61; Matthew goes on to say, that watching the burial of Jesus, was Mary Magdalene and the OTHER Mary: not the other marys, or the other women by the name Mary, but the only other woman named Mary who was at the crucifixion, burial, and empty tomb, of Jesus, who was Mary the biological mother of Jesus the son of Joseph, the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, and the mother of Joseph the son of her first husband, who was Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, who was also the mother of James the younger of her three biological sons, who was the son of Alphaeus/Cleopas, and who is the brother of the Lord Jesus. To reinforce the fact that there were only two women by the name of Mary at the Death, burial, and empty tomb of Jesus, in Matthew 20: 1; it’s written, After the Sabbath Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb, the other Mary referred to by Matthew Is Mary the mother of James and Joseph, who he had already stated were at the cross of Jesus.

Knowing now, that there were only two women by the name Mary, at the death, burial, and empty tomb of Jesus, we turn to John, who Identifies those two women named Mary, John 19: 25; “Standing close to Jesus’ cross were his Mother (Mary) and his mothers sister/sister-in-law, and the identity of the only two women by the name Mary, who were at the cross, the burial, and the empty tomb, were his mother Mary the wife of Cleopas/Alphaeus the biological father of James the younger of Marys three biological sons who was the brother of Jesus, and her sister/sister-in-law, Mary Magdalene. One would expect Jesus to appear to his immediate family first, which he does, first to his mother and Mary Magdalene, then to Cleopas his mothers husband and his son Simon, as they walked to Emmaus.


So, Mary was married to Joseph, and then got a divorce, and then married this Cleopas?

Correct! Mary was married to Joseph the son of Jacob, from the tribe of Judah, who had no genetic connection with Jesus, but was his step father. and it is believed that the Josep from Aramithea, who laid Jesus in his own family tomb which had never been used, was either Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, or his son Joseph of who we know near to nothing. Jesus was preaching that if a divorced person remarried while their original spouse was still alive they were committing adultery; and the religious authorities of those days were always looking for ways that they might trap Jesus according to his own teaching and then accuse him to the people. And it was after Jesus had been preaching that if a divorced person remarried while their original spouse was still alive, they were committing adultery. It was then that the hypocritical priests thought that they had the means whereby they could make Jesus appear to the people to have one law for himself and another for everyone else.


I believe that it was his Mother who was among the crowd who were listening to the great teacher who was setting Israel on fire, that they pointed to as they said to Jesus in their most patronising voice, Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery. (This was according to the mew teaching of Jesus) In our law Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. Now, what do you say? They said this in order to trap Jesus and accuse him to the people. These hypocrites who thought nothing of stoning the innocent Stephen to death, were bound by the law of Moses to stone this woman to death if she had indeed been caught in the very act of sexual intercourse with a man other than He to who she was legally married at that time.

Jesus then turned the tables on them by saying, “He who is without sin may cast the first stone.” Then he bent down and wrote something in the dust, Perhaps he may have written, “As ye judge, so shall ye be judged.” Most men in those days who had been given by Moses, the right to issue their wives with a bill of divorce, had done so and according to the new teaching of Jesus, most of those hypocrites would have been as guilty as the woman that they were accusing, and the hypocrites knowing full well that the woman had not broken the Law of Moses and was innocent of any crime according to their own teachings, were forced to walk away with their tails between their legs, thereby admitting to the people that they were not without sin. Jesus then turned to his mother and asked, “Is there no one left to condemn you?” No one Lord she answered. “Well then,” said Jesus, “I do not condemn you either. Go, but don’t sin again,” and it was for this reason that the mother of Jesus chose to remain separate from her husband and his children, and the reason why Jesus while hanging on the cross, entrusted his mother into the care of his beloved disciple John, who he had surnamed "Son of Thunder," who is the same person as John who was surnamed "MARK," which name means "the Hammer, " who was the adopted son of Mary the sister of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who had been surnamed Barbebus, who was to later take Mary and John up to the land of Pamphylia, where, in the town of Ephesus, the graves of Mary and John can still be visited today.