Do the Gods Probably Exist or Probably Not Exist?

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that most discussions of whether or not deity exists sooner or later end up in efforts to prove with deductive certainty that deity either does or does not exist, or at least cannot be determined to exist or not exist.

That's all very well and good, but in this thread, I would like to confine the discussion to whether or not the gods probably exist or probably do not exist. Now, I realize that, if speaking in strictly mathematical terms, the question makes little or no sense, but I am using the word "probably" here in its much loser popular sense of what is most likely to be the case, rather than in any strict mathematical sense.

In this thread, please be so kind as to avoid, just as sternly as you would normally avoid kissing a blipsnitch on its hairy lips, any and all "proofs" that the gods exist or not, or cannot be determined to exist or not. However, if you still itch with all the fires of ten extraordinarily passionate men or women to discuss such things, please start your own thread.

Do the gods probably exist or do they probably not exist? That is the question. What say you, kind sir or madam, upon that heading?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What possible method might one use to ascertain likelihood?

We live in an altogether remarkable cosmos which manifests a wave from nucleosynthesis to Mozart and Monet. That strikes me as more than a little fortuitous, but, then again, I'm surfing the arc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How would anyone even being to calculate such a possibility either way? All I have ever seen are arguments from ignorance at best.

 

[Sunstone]

What possible method might one use to ascertain likelihood?

How would anyone even being to calculate such a possibility either way?

Excellent points, Gentlemen, points that swiftly cut to the bone and lay bare the very marrow of the matter! Thank you both for your kind services here! Seriously, I know of no method or procedure that can be used here to reasonably calculate the likelihood of there being a god. But I wonder if I'm not overlooking something. Hence, half the reason for this thread*.




*The other half of the reason chiefly being my sane hope that someone will think to lavish upon me fine microbrewed beers in honor of my efforts to get a discussion going. But that's always been a reason for my threads. Always.

 

[Sunstone]

We live in an altogether remarkable cosmos which manifests a wave from nucleosynthesis to Mozart and Monet. That strikes me as more than a little fortuitous, but, then again, I'm surfing the arc.

I think that's a fair point and I love how you put that! Just so you know.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It seems to me that most discussions of whether or not deity exists sooner or later end up in efforts to prove with deductive certainty that deity either does or does not exist, or at least cannot be determined to exist or not exist.

That's all very well and good, but in this thread, I would like to confine the discussion to whether or not the gods probably exist or probably do not exist. Now, I realize that, if speaking in strictly mathematical terms, the question makes little or no sense, but I am using the word "probably" here in its much loser popular sense of what is most likely to be the case, rather than in any strict mathematical sense.

In this thread, please be so kind as to avoid, just as sternly as you would normally avoid kissing a blipsnitch on its hairy lips, any and all "proofs" that the gods exist or not, or cannot be determined to exist or not. However, if you still itch with all the fires of ten extraordinarily passionate men or women to discuss such things, please start your own thread.

Do the gods probably exist or do they probably not exist? That is the question. What say you, kind sir or madam, upon that heading?

I cant say probably. Thats like saying: a billion people believes in Harry the Henderson. They wrote a book, a comic (I think), and movie about him. He was on PBS last wednseday and people saw his foot prints and claimed to receive divine experiences from no one who can make prints as large as Harry.

Then someone asks: do you believe harry existed (in real life)?

Um. No.

Can you say probably yes or no?

Uh. No.

But we dont know. How can you claim to know.

This is an odd question. Is it because millions of people claim they saw Harry? Did they fall in love or hate over his comic books and ask about his real existence?

What prompts the "probably" questions and agnostic reasoning? We dont do this with other things we know are not real. Why is god any different?

Okay. Cant say either way.

 

[Sunstone]

What prompts the "probably" questions...

The question is chiefly prompted by curiosity. Will anyone come up with something compelling that I haven't myself already considered? But after that, I'm trying to impress the hot babes of RF with my intellectualism so that they might send me cold beers. In other words, the usual reasons.*



*The thought just occurred to me that the odds of there being gods might be about the same as the odds I'm going to get some beer out of this. What a downer! You don't happen to live near a liquor store, do you, Carlita?

 

[LuisDantas]

They exist as tools for religious practice. More than likely only in that way.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems to me that most discussions of whether or not deity exists sooner or later end up in efforts to prove with deductive certainty that deity either does or does not exist, or at least cannot be determined to exist or not exist.

That's all very well and good, but in this thread, I would like to confine the discussion to whether or not the gods probably exist or probably do not exist. Now, I realize that, if speaking in strictly mathematical terms, the question makes little or no sense, but I am using the word "probably" here in its much loser popular sense of what is most likely to be the case, rather than in any strict mathematical sense.

In this thread, please be so kind as to avoid, just as sternly as you would normally avoid kissing a blipsnitch on its hairy lips, any and all "proofs" that the gods exist or not, or cannot be determined to exist or not. However, if you still itch with all the fires of ten extraordinarily passionate men or women to discuss such things, please start your own thread.

Do the gods probably exist or do they probably not exist? That is the question. What say you, kind sir or madam, upon that heading?

Well, there would need to be something actually going on that would suggest such a probability is even there that would fall in line with the notion of creationism.

Like show me where any point of contact lay with the spiritual where there is an interaction with the physical, so that it can be observed and studied directly.

I don't find arguments made over complexity or incredulity as being valid in establishing possibilities because you need an actual creation event that can be
witnessed and sourced back to the cause.

So far, all uncovered facts are on natural occurrences and not creation.

If there is no creation event of any kind, then you can't claim even the possibility of any creator to begin with

You just can't prove something that is simply not there. That's why creationism doesn't make any sense.

Good for conjecture but bad for proof.

 

[Sunstone]

They exist as tools for religious practice. More than likely only in that way.

Why "more than likely"?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

My God exists to me, whether anyone else chooses to believe or accept it, doesn't really matter, He's real and alive to me!

 

[Sunstone]

My God exists to me, whether anyone else chooses to believe or accept it, doesn't really matter, He's real and alive to me!

That might be true, but it seems irrelevant to this thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why "more than likely"?

Because far as I can tell (and I have a considerable degree of curiosity) few if any god-concepts are well suited to that odd thing that would be existence proper in this reality.

 

[Woberts]

I believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster probably exists. If he doesn't, then when I die, I'm not going to get to swim in the beer volcano and visit the stripper factory.

 

[Sunstone]

Because far as I can tell (and I have a considerable degree of curiosity) few if any god-concepts are well suited to that odd thing that would be existence proper in this reality.

Interesting response. Thanks! May I ask in what way or ways the god concepts you refer to are not suited to reality?

 

[LuisDantas]

Interesting response. Thanks! May I ask in what way or ways the god concepts you refer to are not suited to reality?

They seem to be, so to speak, attuned to other aspects of practice. Their practical worth is remarkably lower when emphasis is put on affirming their existence, while it instead raises when considered under a perspective of symbolism, self-discovery, expression and inspiration.

 

[sun rise]

Without recourse to any proof, my answer is yes, God exists. To write anything more is to cross the forbidden barrier into the zone of darkness known as some sort of evidence or other.

 

[Jumi]

In probabilistic terms, no matter how unlikely they seem to us, everything that has happened has a probability of 1 (or 100% to those not that familiar with the expression). So if we believe ourselves to have experienced that which is called God by a multitude of mystics, we can say that it exists. If we choose another god concept, then I'd say the probably don't exist as in any more than what @LuisDantas said... as tools for religious practice.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

It seems to me that most discussions of whether or not deity exists sooner or later end up in efforts to prove with deductive certainty that deity either does or does not exist, or at least cannot be determined to exist or not exist.

That's all very well and good, but in this thread, I would like to confine the discussion to whether or not the gods probably exist or probably do not exist. Now, I realize that, if speaking in strictly mathematical terms, the question makes little or no sense, but I am using the word "probably" here in its much loser popular sense of what is most likely to be the case, rather than in any strict mathematical sense.

In this thread, please be so kind as to avoid, just as sternly as you would normally avoid kissing a blipsnitch on its hairy lips, any and all "proofs" that the gods exist or not, or cannot be determined to exist or not. However, if you still itch with all the fires of ten extraordinarily passionate men or women to discuss such things, please start your own thread.

Do the gods probably exist or do they probably not exist? That is the question. What say you, kind sir or madam, upon that heading?

Unfortunately, due to the wording of your question, the answer is indubitably...........

............ NO

 

[Axe Elf]

In the absence of proof, and without being able to assign a numerical value to the probability of God's existence (like "80% sure"), I can say that I have reasons to believe there is a good chance that God actually exists, even if they don't rise to the level of evidence, per se.

At the most basic level of personal experience, there are a couple of incidents that I have experienced which have given me reason to believe that I was experiencing a manifestation of God. At the next level, there are the experiences of others that more or less corroborate my own experiences of God. In the abstract realm, I can understand God rationally, so there is no cognitive dissonance to overcome in accepting His existence, and finally, the fact that billions and billions of other people have found a reason to believe in God makes for an awful lot of smoke for there to be no fire.

Like I said, none of that is proof, or even evidence in the scientific sense, but it does make the assumption of God's existence a lot more reasonable and probable.