Do psychic mediums disprove religion?

[Djamila]

Okay, everyone - for the purposes of this debate, please accept for the sake of arguement that psychic mediums do exist and what they claim to do is, in fact, real.

I realize not everyone believes this, most probably don't, but I really don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of whether or not they're real or not.

So, assuming they are real, what does it mean for religion? I remember the first time I learned that the Christian and, especially the Hindi world have psychic mediums and people who've claimed psychic experiences as well. I thought - they're not Muslim, many aren't even people of the book. How is it their souls are in any situation to communicate with a psychic medium?

So, if they are real, and universal, what does that say about religion? It's not enough for me to doubt my faith, even though I'm unable to provide an answer. But I'm curious what everyone else thinks?

 

[Willamena]

If they are real, they I guess it says that there is an afterlife, as they profess to speak to the deceased.

Kinda spoils the mystery.

 

[Buttercup]

Djamila.....could you explain just a bit more of what you want to debate?

Is it that you feel people who are faithful to their religion cannot believe in psychics?

What do you mean "of the book?"

 

[Booko]

So, assuming they are real, what does it mean for religion? I remember the first time I learned that the Christian and, especially the Hindi world have psychic mediums and people who've claimed psychic experiences as well. I thought - they're not Muslim, many aren't even people of the book. How is it their souls are in any situation to communicate with a psychic medium?

So, if they are real, and universal, what does that say about religion? It's not enough for me to doubt my faith, even though I'm unable to provide an answer. But I'm curious what everyone else thinks?

If true, the idea that mediums might be able to talk to those of many religions, and they aren't gnashing their teeth in eternal pain, would only serve to confirm my religious beliefs anyway, since I don't hold to exclusivist religious beliefs. Or eternal teeth gnashing, for that matter.

 

[Faint]

Okay, everyone - for the purposes of this debate, please accept for the sake of arguement that psychic mediums do exist and what they claim to do is, in fact, real.

I realize not everyone believes this, most probably don't, but I really don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of whether or not they're real or not.

So, assuming they are real, what does it mean for religion? I remember the first time I learned that the Christian and, especially the Hindi world have psychic mediums and people who've claimed psychic experiences as well. I thought - they're not Muslim, many aren't even people of the book. How is it their souls are in any situation to communicate with a psychic medium?

So, if they are real, and universal, what does that say about religion? It's not enough for me to doubt my faith, even though I'm unable to provide an answer. But I'm curious what everyone else thinks?

This is a bit like asking "if the tooth fairy existed, how would that affect your supernatural beliefs?" I would think it would only support one's belief in the supernatural if one could actually be certain of the existence of ANYTHING supernatural (psychics, ghosts, divination, fairies, magic, etc.) In other words, anything that completely invalidated scientific reason would become support for what is currently unreasonable.

 

[Willamena]

This is a bit like asking "if the tooth fairy existed, how would that affect your supernatural beliefs?" I would think it would only support one's belief in the supernatural if one could actually be certain of the existence of ANYTHING supernatural (psychics, ghosts, divination, fairies, magic, etc.) In other words, anything that completely invalidated scientific reason would become support for what is currently unreasonable.

On the contrary... If what is supernatural becomes natural, how can that support belief in the supernatural?

Dang.. off-topic again. Sorry.

 

[Djamila]

Djamila.....could you explain just a bit more of what you want to debate?

Is it that you feel people who are faithful to their religion cannot believe in psychics?

What do you mean "of the book?"

People of the book are Christians and Jews and, according to some interpretations of Islam, also go to heaven provided the follow the rules of their particular faiths.

What I want to debate is if Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Athiests, and whatever else have died and are communicating with their living relatives, through psychic mediums, from heaven/paradise/the other side/whatever...

...how does that reconcile with any one, specific religion's teachings?

 

[Buttercup]

What I want to debate is if Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Athiests, and whatever else have died and are communicating with their living relatives, through psychic mediums, from heaven/paradise/the other side/whatever...

...how does that reconcile with any one, specific religion's teachings?

ahhh, ok...that's what I thought but I wanted to make sure.

You may have read before on RF that I have a very good friend who is a local radio psychic personality. In fact, I met her through her radio show 7 years ago and we became close friends afterwards. I went to her for a reading never having met her before that day and she told me some amazing and truly insightful, detailed facts about my life and what would happen. It came true a year later. I told her nothing what so ever before our first meeting...only that I wanted a reading. That was it, period. I was literally speechless after the first five minutes of her reading.

I definitely believe there are SOME people who have a gift to see into another world that most of us don't see. I think most of them however, are not legitimate.

Now, my friend's specialty is after death communication. She has helped many people with detailed, legitimate readings. She tells people facts first that no one could have told her and then goes on to explain where their loved one is now.

According to her....there is a God. But this God is more of a universal force or energy that is everywhere and not anthropomorphic. She believes our souls are reincarnated and come back to earth again and again until we learn the lessons we need to.

So, take it for what you will.....those are the thoughts of a psychic. I have noticed however that most psychics believe pretty close to the same things about the afterlife.

 

[Djamila]

Very interesting, Butter! Thanks!

 

[Quiddity]

As it applies to my faith, it would simply mean they have a gift, nothing more, nothing less. I can ignore it all and still stay in the bossom of my Church.

 

[michel]

Okay, everyone - for the purposes of this debate, please accept for the sake of arguement that psychic mediums do exist and what they claim to do is, in fact, real.

I realize not everyone believes this, most probably don't, but I really don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of whether or not they're real or not.

So, assuming they are real, what does it mean for religion? I remember the first time I learned that the Christian and, especially the Hindi world have psychic mediums and people who've claimed psychic experiences as well. I thought - they're not Muslim, many aren't even people of the book. How is it their souls are in any situation to communicate with a psychic medium?

So, if they are real, and universal, what does that say about religion? It's not enough for me to doubt my faith, even though I'm unable to provide an answer. But I'm curious what everyone else thinks?

I am not quite sure what you mean by "what does it mean for Religion ?"; my Mother was psychic (although she never used her ability), and I have inherited her ability (though, again, it is something I do not use).

But I am at a loss as to understand what your question means. I see no impact of the possibility of psychic phenomenum on religion.

 

[Djamila]

I don't know how to explain it any differently...

If Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Athiests, Satanists, and whoever else are able to communicate, through psychic mediums, from heaven/the afterlife - then what does that mean for religion, which - according to its most fundamental teachings - requires most of those people be in hell?

 

[Buttercup]

I'm thinking psychics tell us there is no heaven or hell, Mila.

 

[Real Sorceror]

ahhh, ok...that's what I thought but I wanted to make sure.

You may have read before on RF that I have a very good friend who is a local radio psychic personality. In fact, I met her through her radio show 7 years ago and we became close friends afterwards. I went to her for a reading never having met her before that day and she told me some amazing and truly insightful, detailed facts about my life and what would happen. It came true a year later. I told her nothing what so ever before our first meeting...only that I wanted a reading. That was it, period. I was literally speechless after the first five minutes of her reading.

I definitely believe there are SOME people who have a gift to see into another world that most of us don't see. I think most of them however, are not legitimate.

Now, my friend's specialty is after death communication. She has helped many people with detailed, legitimate readings. She tells people facts first that no one could have told her and then goes on to explain where their loved one is now.

According to her....there is a God. But this God is more of a universal force or energy that is everywhere and not anthropomorphic. She believes our souls are reincarnated and come back to earth again and again until we learn the lessons we need to.

So, take it for what you will.....those are the thoughts of a psychic. I have noticed however that most psychics believe pretty close to the same things about the afterlife.

I agree with everything in this post.:yes:
Also, I approve of the pumkin munky.:yes:
In response to the OP, I really don't see how psychics dissprove religion, though I can see how they might conflict or support certian faiths.

 

[uumckk16]

Now, my friend's specialty is after death communication. She has helped many people with detailed, legitimate readings. She tells people facts first that no one could have told her and then goes on to explain where their loved one is now.

According to her....there is a God. But this God is more of a universal force or energy that is everywhere and not anthropomorphic. She believes our souls are reincarnated and come back to earth again and again until we learn the lessons we need to.

So, take it for what you will.....those are the thoughts of a psychic. I have noticed however that most psychics believe pretty close to the same things about the afterlife.

This isn't meant to be a criticism of your friend - I'm just seeking clarification If she believes in reincarnation, how can she communicate with people who have died? Because if they've been reincarnated, doesn't that mean they're here, on this planet? Or does she only communicate with those who have "learned the lessons we need to"?

 

[Buttercup]

This isn't meant to be a criticism of your friend - I'm just seeking clarification If she believes in reincarnation, how can she communicate with people who have died? Because if they've been reincarnated, doesn't that mean they're here, on this planet? Or does she only communicate with those who have "learned the lessons we need to"?

I asked her that question myself ....and she said that sometimes she can tell if they've gone on into another life but their higher conscious can answer for their past life. There must be something to it because she ALWAYS tells the family something only they could know about the deceased person.

She also said not everyone is reincarnated immediately.....that we chose where we want to go and with which family and it affects the lessons we need to learn next time around.

 

[uumckk16]

I asked her that question myself ....and she said that sometimes she can tell if they've gone on into another life but their higher conscious can answer for their past life. There must be something to it because she ALWAYS tells the family something only they could know about the deceased person.

She also said not everyone is reincarnated immediately.....that we chose where we want to go and with which family and it affects the lessons we need to learn next time around.

Thanks for clarifying! That's really very interesting, IMO. Wow.

If I may ask, how does this affect your faith? (I was gonna PM you about this since it's kind of personal before realizing that's actually what the thread is about ) What I mean is...you're Christian, right? So how does believing someone who believes in reincarnation affect your faith? Just wondering

 

[Booko]

I don't know how to explain it any differently...

If Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Athiests, Satanists, and whoever else are able to communicate, through psychic mediums, from heaven/the afterlife - then what does that mean for religion, which - according to its most fundamental teachings - requires most of those people be in hell?

I question whether "religion" per se according to its most fundamental teachings, requires most of those people to be in hell.

There are a number of people on here who belong to religions and do not believe people of other religions are hellbound. Very often, their religions back them up on this subject.

 

[Spirit Channeller]

This is all very interesting and possibly one of the most interesting discussion I have read on any Website that discusses these things in a rational way without it turning into a fight.
I would like to state that I have been channelling for spirits for a long time now and it is real.
When the Spirit of the Dead leaves their earthly body all its intelligence and memories goes with it and I know this because I am in communication with realtives that I knew when they walked the Earth and I am in communication with the Spirits of others whom I never knew but I knew of them because some of them were Public figures whose name almost anyone in the World would recognize but for now I am writing only about Spirits and life after Death in General,.
How all this should affect Religion and peoples beliefs only time will tell but for me it proves what Jesus preached about Everlasting Life.
Now that I know these things I am now thinking more about the Creator and Evolution and all sorts of other things that are being discussed.
Now I am more thinking about where is the Creator and what is the Creator who could create all the wonderful things in the World and where is Heaven located and now I find myself exploring the Heavens like a space Traveler and while I don't have the answer to any of those things at this time I am confident of one thing and that Life after Death and in order for all of this to Exist we have to have had a Creator and as time went on down the ages we have all evolved and continue to evolve as science develops new methods for dealing with disease and all sorts of things.
Take for example all the beautiful perfect people we have in this generation and get out some books with pictures and see what people looked like back through generations and you will see that new technology, and foods and medicines enable us to look better and live longer and to be that is what evolving is all about.
Having said that I believe more people should try to develop their God Given Psychic Abilities and learn to communicate with their own friends and relatives and Guides in the Universe and stop being afraid of them and stop looking for them in Grave Yards because the Spirits of the Dead probably don't hang around cemeteries but they may be with you in your home watching your favorite shows even soap oeprats the way mine do at times.

 

[gnostic]

If you believe in the Judaism and Christianity, thus the bible, then I do recall there being an example of medium being used to commune with the dead, even if the Torah ban it.

King Saul sought to speak with Samuel, the last of the Judges and a prophet. Saul broke the Mosiac law, when he employed a medium, and apparently it worked. (Don't remember what chapter this happened in.)

But this doesn't answer Djamila's question.