Do Mormons Support Obama

[zippythepinhead]

I'd vote for Saddam Hussein if he were running against Hillary.

But he is now assumed room temprature. Are you suggesting we stuff Saddam and do a "Weekend at Berney's"?

 

[ohyeah]

do you know what kind of a car saddam hussein drove?

a saddam deville.

i bet you couldn't tell i made that up.

 

[Bishka]

i don't understand how an active lds who understands our beliefs could support him.

at the core of our beliefs is the importance of our free agency. if you look at satan's tools, they are all designed to take away our free agency.

everything that obama stands for is also about taking away our free agency.

he wants us to all work for the government. what kind of government is that? the more of your money they control, the more they control you.

also if you look at the left on virtually every issue they support, you will see they are consistently against God.

Evidence honey, evidence.

Any LDS should be supporting them if they actually understood what they believed.

 

[nutshell]

i don't understand how an active lds who understands our beliefs could support him.

at the core of our beliefs is the importance of our free agency. if you look at satan's tools, they are all designed to take away our free agency.

everything that obama stands for is also about taking away our free agency.

he wants us to all work for the government. what kind of government is that? the more of your money they control, the more they control you.

also if you look at the left on virtually every issue they support, you will see they are consistently against God.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Since you're making these ridiculous claims why don't you pick an Obama stance on an issue and we can debate whether it is "against God" or not. Good luck.

 

[ohyeah]

Evidence honey, evidence.

Any LDS should be supporting them if they actually understood what they believed.

what are you saying, that we don't believe in free agency as a principle basic to lds beliefs?

are you saying that i need to quote scriptures to support this?

or are you saying that satan does not tempt people to partake in those activities that are addictions and therefore deprive people of their free agency.

or are you saying that the church does not teach self-reliance instead of reliance on the government?

which party is the one for bigger government, more government control and big brotherism, abortion, gay marriage, etc.

the choice should be fairly obvious.

i find it hard to believe that any active member would not know these things; do you need me to present supporting evidence for this?

 

[ohyeah]

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Since you're making these ridiculous claims why don't you pick an Obama stance on an issue and we can debate whether it is "against God" or not. Good luck.

you are not going to learn anything if you run away like a little child screaming no, no, no i'm not going to listen.

you want to vote for him, be my guest. he talks good, but that's about all. would you invest 35000 dollars on a car you never heard of because the salesman talks good? that's about all you have with him; other than his oratorial ablilities there's not record of much more than that. you are pretty much buying an unknown. he's selling an illusion which is a typical trait of the left. it's all image and big talk.

you either believe in true and correct principles or you don't. if you don't know what they are, then i recommend you learn them otherwise you will be able to be driven by every wind of strange doctrine in your life rather than be able to figure out the truth on your own.

if you are the kind that took your umbilical cord at birth and are spending the rest of your life looking for a place to plug it in i.e. you want a system where the government takes care of you and fixes all your problems from the cradle to the grave, then i recommend you move to a country that already has such a system and leave the american system of freedom in tact.

 

[Bishka]

what are you saying, that we don't believe in free agency as a principle basic to lds beliefs?

are you saying that i need to quote scriptures to support this?

or are you saying that satan does not tempt people to partake in those activities that are addictions and therefore deprive people of their free agency.

or are you saying that the church does not teach self-reliance instead of reliance on the government?

which party is the one for bigger government, more government control and big brotherism, abortion, gay marriage, etc.

the choice should be fairly obvious.

i find it hard to believe that any active member would not know these things; do you need me to present supporting evidence for this?

No, you need to prove what you said about Obama.

It's simple.

 

[Bishka]

if you are the kind that took your umbilical cord at birth and are spending the rest of your life looking for a place to plug it in i.e. you want a system where the government takes care of you and fixes all your problems from the cradle to the grave, then i recommend you move to a country that already has such a system and leave the american system of freedom in tact.

You obviously know nothing about Obama and choose to believe the mud-slinging by the far-right. You want to know something, we don't all have to be Republicans behind ole' Dubya.

The late President James E. Faust was a democrat and I'm sure there are other Church leaders that have similar viewpoints.

We aren't mindless sheep and we do not all have to vote Republican to be a "good member" of the Church.

 

[ohyeah]

No, you need to prove what you said about Obama.

It's simple.

you want me to prove he's a liberal?

 

[ohyeah]

You obviously know nothing about Obama and choose to believe the mud-slinging by the far-right. You want to know something, we don't all have to be Republicans behind ole' Dubya.

The late President James E. Faust was a democrat and I'm sure there are other Church leaders that have similar viewpoints.

We aren't mindless sheep and we do not all have to vote Republican to be a "good member" of the Church.

i've listened to his speeches.

do what you want. you're going to do it anyway.

i just think those who members who have liberal proclivities might want to give careful re-consideration to what principles they believe in.

when mitt romney said that the strength in this country flows from its people and not the government, he had it right. if we are going to encourage and largely adopt the weak, lilly-livered, controlling liberal philosophical point of view in this country, we are in big trouble- huge.

 

[Bishka]

you want me to prove he's a liberal?

No, I want you to prove what you claimed in your previous posts.

Like I said before extravagant claims require extravagant proof.

If you are willing to supply one will assume you are lying.

 

[Bishka]

i've listened to his speeches.

do what you want. you're going to do it anyway.

i just think those who members who have liberal proclivities might want to give careful re-consideration to what principles they believe in.

when mitt romney said that the strength in this country flows from its people and not the government, he had it right. if we are going to encourage and largely adopt the weak, lilly-livered, controlling liberal philosophical point of view in this country, we are in big trouble- huge.

I do feel sorry for you.

That you'd ever consider Mitt Romney a viable candidate for the Presidential office. Do you ever think outside that huge ego of yours?

 

[ohyeah]

I do feel sorry for you.

That you'd ever consider Mitt Romney a viable candidate for the Presidential office. Do you ever think outside that huge ego of yours?

please notice that i said nothing about mitt romney being a viable candidate. i said that what he said about where the real strength of this country should be was correct. it is not going to help this country be strong by not expecting people to stand on their own 2 feet and grow to be responsible adults and offering them the world via favors from the government.

listen to obamas speeches. he's going to fix all your problems. he talks like a 20 year old. they are talking about more people working for the government while not encouraging them to work in the private sector. who's going to pay for that?

did you ever work for something? did you ever have something you worked for stolen from you? they are penalizing the producers in this country to give to those who don't. i guess, if you don't believe you are capable of producing for yourself, that i can see how that kind of a system would appeal to you.

maybe we should stop telling people in this country that they need the government in their lives to make it and decide we are going to stand on our own without the government's intrusion into our lives.

i'm 53 years old. beyond multiple degrees, i have learned a lot of hard lessons in this life via the school of hard knocks. i have completely considered and digested these topics in great detail. i have a clear understanding of the american system and the principles that made this country the greatest one. not ego. i just happen to know what i'm talking about.

 

[Bishka]

i'm 53 years old. beyond multiple degrees,

Citing all this on the internet to a complete stranger doesn't mean squat. You could be a teenager still living with his parents for all we know.

If you claim to have "beyond [these] multiple degrees," then I suggest you use them and actually give a response instead of beating around the bush.

You said the Obama should not be voted for by any member of the Church. Correct? Be specific. Why? What stances of his should be consider a "heresy," if a Church member voted for him? Again, BE SPECIFIC. In your opinion why shouldn't a Church member vote the Democrat party? Cite sources and be prepared to back up all statements.

i just happen to know what i'm talking about.

Then prove it.

Quit using your "..multiple degrees," to beat around the bush and use them to actually answer the questions being presented to you.

 

[Bishka]

he talks like a 20 year old.

Wasn't aware of that.

Which twenty-year olds do you know of that want to take actual action for children's healthcare and education, the environment and energy issues, the war in Iraq, healthcare for the general population, etc. etc.

Please cite sources of how you think "...he talks like a twenty-year old."

did you ever work for something? did you ever have something you worked for stolen from you? they are penalizing the producers in this country to give to those who don't. i guess, if you don't believe you are capable of producing for yourself, that i can see how that kind of a system would appeal to you.

You have heard of the Law of Consecration haven't you?

 

[ohyeah]

Citing all this on the internet to a complete stranger doesn't mean squat. You could be a teenager still living with his parents for all we know.

If you claim to have "beyond [these] multiple degrees," then I suggest you use them and actually give a response instead of beating around the bush.

You said the Obama should not be voted for by any member of the Church. Correct? Be specific. Why? What stances of his should be consider a "heresy," if a Church member voted for him? Again, BE SPECIFIC. In your opinion why shouldn't a Church member vote the Democrat party? Cite sources and be prepared to back up all statements.


Then prove it.

Quit using your "..multiple degrees," to beat around the bush and use them to actually answer the questions being presented to you.

i have been specific enough--see above.

i am not here to write a term paper.

i have amply stated my case.

i can't force you to seek out the learning and internalization of those principles that make this country great, and i can't infuse liberals with backbone. if people are going to do those kinds of things, they have to do it on their own; no one can make them.

 

[Smoke]

Then prove it.

The system won't let me frubal you again.

 

[ohyeah]

Wasn't aware of that.

Which twenty-year olds do you know of that want to take actual action for children's healthcare and education, the environment and energy issues, the war in Iraq, healthcare for the general population, etc. etc.

Please cite sources of how you think "...he talks like a twenty-year old."



You have heard of the Law of Consecration haven't you?

regarding talking like a 20 year old, listen to his speeches. this should be, and the government should do that and we'll(figuratively) all be eating candy and cake and ice cream all day and never get fat. the reason he sounds like a 20 year old is he stands up on a regular basis spouting a lot of childishly idealistic hogwash, and it's not real. your inability to see it is not an endictment on me. i've already wasted too much time with you on this. i'm not the government here to hold your hand and take care of all your needs.

regarding the law of consecration, that is those who have volitionally agreed to that in a virtually perfect society with virtually perfect leaders. we don't have that.

 

[Bishka]

i have been specific enough--see above.

Not really. It is all just a "ring-around-the-rosie-avoid-the-question-dance," that you are doing. You have not answered a single question nor have you been "specific" enough.

i have amply stated my case..

No, you haven't.

i can't force you to seek out the learning and internalization of those principles that make this country great

Glad you think I need a lecture, but I do not appreciate being talked-down because you think I do not understand the constitution and different forms of democratic governments.

and i can't infuse liberals with backbone.

Straw-man.

 

[Bishka]

regarding talking like a 20 year old, listen to his speeches.

I have.

Haven't heard it once, could you be specific and actually point out anything (anything at all) that he has said that makes him represent himself as a twenty-year old?

is he stands up on a regular basis spouting a lot of childishly idealistic hogwash, and it's not real.

Again, you claim it's "hogwash" but you haven't been able to once point out what is actually "hogwash" about Barack Obama's positions in this presidential race. You wave to vague generalizations like "I've already stated my position," when in reality you have just ran around in a circle without bothering to look outside it.

your inability to see it is not an endictment on me. i've already wasted too much time with you on this. i'm not the government here to hold your hand and take care of all your needs.

You have wasted your time. You've wasted your time running in circles expecting to come out the victor when all you have done is repeated yourself like a broken record.

regarding the law of consecration, that is those who have volitionally agreed to that in a virtually perfect society with virtually perfect leaders. we don't have that.

Really?

In the Law of Consecration there will be this "perfect society," that if you don't want to live the Law of Consecration you cannot be part of it. Now, how does this differ from now?

---

I see you inability to answer any of my questions or even take a slow jab at anything presented here in this thread and I regard my participation in it over; unless you can start backing up your positions and participate instead dancing around a straw man.