Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies?

[Katzpur]

I can only conclude that you didn't read my entire post in the first place. I had not asked you any question. Example:

How can an idividual discuss a topic if no topic has been brought up? He can start a thread on that topic.

Now are you going to answer the question I already answered?

You asked:

Do and/or did LDS believe that the Father was created?

I answered, "No, we don't."

 

[roli]

You asked: I answered, "No, we don't."

Do you believe he has progressed from what he once was, that being as we are now?

 

[Katzpur]

Katz ~

can i ask a qestion? how does the CoJCoLDS view salvation? how is one saved / brought into God's family?

Hi, Ayani.

Well, in a nutshell, it all begins when one hears and is converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ and has faith that Jesus Christ can and wishes to pay the price for his sins. The next step in for him to repent of those sins, be baptised by immersion for the remission of those sins by one holding the proper authority to do so, and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

We believe that when we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior at the time we are baptized, He promises us that if we will remain faithful to Him throughout our lives, doing our best to keep His commandments and repenting whenever we fall short, He will become our advocate with our Father in Heaven. His Atonement paid the price for our sins and absolves us of the guilt associated with those sins. Because we have been cleansed by His sacrifice, we can look forward to being reconciled with our Father in Heaven and living with Him eternally.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you believe he has progressed from what he once was, that being as we are now?

I don't have a firm opinion on this myself. I believe it is possible, since we have been promised that we may eventually become as He is. Jesus Christ commanded us to be "perfect... as [our] Father in Heaven is perfect." We don't believe He would commanded the impossible of us. If we can ultimately become as He is, it seems logical to me that He could have progressed at some point, too. If this is the case, it would have been at some point prior to what we as human beings refer to as "the beginning." "The beginning" more than likely means something quite different to God than it does to us.

 

[Scott C.]

I have shared before about the state we were in before God found us:
How do you explain these verses describing the state of man.
Jesus says "he came to seek and save that which was lost

You point out that we are fallen and sinful and in need of redemption. You quote a lot of scriptures to prove this. I agree completely. This is where I have a disconnect. You seem to be saying that we can't be the offspring of God because of our fallen and sinful nature. Why not? Let me explain what I believe:

Before the earth was created we lived with God as His offspring. God gave us the opportunity to come to earth to progress. He gave us free agency (free will). He knew that some of his children would sin and never repent on earth. He knew some would become very wicked and do terrible things on earth. He knew some would be much better. He knew some would accept His Son, believe Him, and follow him.

I want to stop right here, because this seems to be a stumbling point in this discussion. Do you believe that there is something contradictory about being the offspring of God, who used to live with God, and who are now sinners on earth? I see no contradiction. Do you believe that it demeans God to believe that He, being righteous and perfect would have children who go astray? I do not believe it demeans God. The key is free will. Even God's very own chidren, His offspring, have free will and can make good or bad choices. This is fundamental to my faith.

Continuing where I left off, we rejoiced to come to earth. God sent us here. There was a Fall. A plan of salvation was provided. A Savior was provided. A way back to God's presence was provided. Again, we have free will and we may find our way back to God's presence or we may not.

A very important point follows, where I don't think you understand what I believe about becoming the "sons of Christ" through accepting his atonement:

As fallen humans, we have the chance to be redeemed. We can and must be born again to be saved. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and when we are born again, Jesus becomes our "Father". This Father/son relationship is one where Christ adopts us as His children. Since he is the author of our salvation, when we are "born again", we get another Father. We get Christ as our spiritual or adopted Father, the Father of our salvation. The children of Christ are heirs to the promises. While all of us are the offpring of the Heavenly Father, not all of us become "sons of Christ" and heirs of the promises of the Father.

I believe the scriptures you and others cite about becoming sons of God are referring to this covenant relationship that occurs when we accept Christ and become his spiritual children.

So, 1) being the offspring of Heavenly Father, before we were ever born, and 2) becoming the children of Christ, and heirs of the promises, through the atonement are different.

You ask what is the veil? This is a common term in my faith. I don't know if you believe in this concept or not. I don't remember discussing it with other Christians in the past.

The veil is the term we use to denote that which separates us from the other side or prevents us from seeing into heaven, angels, etc.. Whether it's literal or figurative, I don't know.

We might say that when Stephen had a vision, God "parted the veil" and allowed Stephen to see into heaven.

You asked more questions, which I'll consider later.

 

[Scott C.]

I notice you don't respond to many of my questions, it makes me wonder why.

I assure you my only reason is time and energy.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

You asked: I answered, "No, we don't."

Do you make a habit of answering questions that other posters have answered and then accusing that poster of sarcasm just because he or she points out that the answer was obviously already given?

I obviously already knew the answer as I had given that answer already.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you make a habit of answering questions that other posters have answered and then accusing that poster of sarcasm just because he or she points out that the answer was obviously already given?

No.

Why the hostility, ἀλήθεια? We don't have to agree on everything in order to be civil. How about we just take a stab at treating one another the way Christ would want us to?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Hi, Ayani.

Well, in a nutshell, it all begins when one hears and is converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ and has faith that Jesus Christ can and wishes to pay the price for his sins. The next step in for him to repent of those sins, be baptised by immersion for the remission of those sins by one holding the proper authority to do so, and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

We believe that when we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior at the time we are baptized, He promises us that if we will remain faithful to Him throughout our lives, doing our best to keep His commandments and repenting whenever we fall short, He will become our advocate with our Father in Heaven. His Atonement paid the price for our sins and absolves us of the guilt associated with those sins. Because we have been cleansed by His sacrifice, we can look forward to being reconciled with our Father in Heaven and living with Him eternally.

Some interestings statements from lds.org include the following:

"The atonement of Jesus Christ redeems all mankind from the fall of Adam and causes all to be answerable for their own manner of life."
- LDS Bible Dictionary

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
- THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

 

[ἀλήθεια]

No.

Why the hostility, ἀλήθεια?

Do you consider yourself civil when you make accusations against other members?

We don't have to agree on everything in order to be civil. How about we just take a stab at treating one another the way Christ would want us to?

You don't treat me as Christ would and then you suggest this to me as if I mistreated you?

 

[Katzpur]

Do you consider yourself civil when you make accusations against other members?

You don't treat me as Christ would and then you suggest this to me as if I mistreated you?

I'm sorry if I've offended you. I'm offering an olive branch. What do you say?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I'm sorry if I've offended you. I'm offering an olive branch. What do you say?

It would be very nice to have a truce. I'm sorry if I offended you by remarking that LDS teaching has been that neither God nor men are created beings. All beings have no beginning or end in LDS teachings.

 

[Katzpur]

Some interestings statements from lds.org include the following:

"The atonement of Jesus Christ redeems all mankind from the fall of Adam and causes all to be answerable for their own manner of life."
- LDS Bible Dictionary

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
- THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

That would be correct. Jesus' Atonement unconditionally saves all mankind from the effects of physical death. Our salvation from the effects of spiritual death (i.e. separation from God) is contingent on our obedience to our Heavenly Father's commandments. Ultimately, however, we could not conceivably pay the price for our own sins. Even though He expects us to be genuinely repentant (which includes making an effort to do better in the future), He is the only means by which we can be forgiven of our sins.

 

[Katzpur]

It would be very nice to have a truce.

:yes:

I'm sorry if I offended you by remarking that LDS teaching has been that neither God nor men are created beings. All beings have no beginning or end in LDS teachings.

We believe that God created our spirits, but that the matter from which He created us is co-eternal with Him. The raw material, in other words, was there all along, but it required a Creator to make something of it.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

:yes:

We believe that God created our spirits, but that the matter from which He created us is co-eternal with Him. The raw material, in other words, was there all along, but it required a Creator to make something of it.

And doesn't the LDS church teach that men are of the same species as God?

Our Father Advanced and
Progressed Until He Became God

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 152)

 

[Katzpur]

And doesn't the LDS church teach that men are of the same species as God?



(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 152)

Yes, we are His children, created in His image, after His likeness.

 

[roli]

I don't have a firm opinion on this myself. I believe it is possible, since we have been promised that we may eventually become as He is. Jesus Christ commanded us to be "perfect... as [our] Father in Heaven is perfect." We don't believe He would commanded the impossible of us. If we can ultimately become as He is, it seems logical to me that He could have progressed at some point, too. If this is the case, it would have been at some point prior to what we as human beings refer to as "the beginning." "The beginning" more than likely means something quite different to God than it does to us.

Are you not familiar with the word "progression" and what it suggests, as Scott mentioned it in one of his posts..... or is this a new term to you?.
Is'nt this taught among LDS, "that you can progress to be a god someday as God is.

Are any of these statements on this site accepted by the church today regarding the OP.
Mormon God Was Once Mortal Man Couplet

The word "perfect" means complete, brought to it's end,finished,mature

 

[Watchmen]

Are you not familiar with the word "progression" and what it suggests, as Scott mentioned it in one of his posts..... or is this a new term to you?.
Is'nt this taught among LDS, "that you can progress to be a god someday as God is.

Are any of these statements on this site accepted by the church today regarding the OP.
Mormon God Was Once Mortal Man Couplet

The word "perfect" means complete, brought to it's end,finished,mature

You didn't ask her about us progressing - you asked about God progressing.

 

[roli]

You didn't ask her about us progressing - you asked about God progressing.

It starts with God progressing first, as Scott and other LDS sites have mentioned and than it proceeds to the LDS member progressing, so they go hand in hand... if that's what you believe .

 

[Katzpur]

Are you not familiar with the word "progression" and what it suggests, as Scott mentioned it in one of his posts..... or is this a new term to you?

Why would you think me unfamiliar with the word "progression," roli?

Is'nt this taught among LDS, "that you can progress to be a god someday as God is.

We believe in the doctrine of eternal progression, yes.

Are any of these statements on this site accepted by the church today regarding the OP.
Mormon God Was Once Mortal Man Couplet

It sounds to me, roli, like you are trying to pit one prophet against another. Is that what you're trying to do?

The word "perfect" means complete, brought to it's end,finished,mature

Very good!