Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies?

[Scott C.]

Scott do you agree that Jesus in MATT 16:17 is making a distinction to Peter that flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven.
Do you overlook this fact of what Jesus was doing here , what are your thoughts on why Jesus had to make this point to Pater

Here's a couple of verse to chew on
2Cr 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
1Cr 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening(life giving) spirit.
Who do you think the last Adam was...Jesus, so what is this saying, Jesus is a life giving spirit.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 50: "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Most Christians seem to believe that we will be resurrected in heaven, as Jesus was resurrected. So, why does Paul say that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God?

Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Stephen saw Jesus on the right hand of the Father. Clearly, flesh and bone did inherit the kingdom of God, as evidenced by the resurrection of Jesus.

So, what did Paul mean? Paul means that a mortal corruptible body will not inherit the kingdom of God. Only immortal and incorruptible bodies will inherit the kingdom of God, bodies that are immortal and incorruptible just like the body of flesh and bone that Jesus showed his disciples after the resurrection. His body was now perfect and of a nature that we don't fully understand, other than that it is "flesh and bone."

The BIble uses the term "flesh and blood" to refer to mortal physical bodies. The blood gives life to the mortal body and is a symbol of our corruptibility and mortality. The scriptures do not refer to the Father or the Son as having bodies of "blood", as that would signify mortality and corruptibility. They do refer, however to "flesh and bone" in the context of the incorruptible, immortal, "spiritual" body that Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 15, in speaking of the resurrection of all.

When Jesus told Peter that "flesh and blood" did not reveal the truth to him, He was saying that mortal man did not reveal the truth to Him, rather His Father in Heaven revealed the truth to Him. That does not change the fact that God the Father is physical, but not mortal, i.e., physical, but not corruptible.

I would like to know if Christians here believe that they will be physically resurrected like Christ. Will their resurrected body be a physical body of flesh and bone as Jesus showed his disciples? In what way will it be the "spiritual" and "incorruptible" body described by Paul in 1 Cor 15? It's not clear to me what others believe in this regard. If your resurrected body will not be "flesh and bone", how do you reconcile that with the fact that Jesus was resurrected as "flesh and bone"?

 

[Freelancer7]

The verse from the Doctrine and Covenants that I quoted in the OP, which says that the Father and the Son are physical, also says that "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

The Holy Ghost is the Testifier. The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit for the purpose to dwell in us.

Perhaps the personage being the power behind mother nature herself, like a pure form of feminine energy that is in all things????

 

[Scott C.]

Perhaps the personage being the power behind mother nature herself, like a pure form of feminine energy that is in all things????

Hmmm..I'm not sure where you're going here.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I'd like to know if any Christians here believe that in Heaven we will learn new things. If so, will we continue to learn new things forever? Will there be limits on how much we can learn? If we continue to learn forever, how much will we know after an eternity of learning?

The Bible doesn't say. We don't need to speculate.

Also, I'd ask how wonderful do you believe heaven to be? Will God make heaven as wonderful as he is capable of making it, or will there be a limit to it's wonderfullness?

There is no limit to the wonderfulness of God. Where would a person get a notion like that?

If there's a limit, that would mean that God could make it more wonderful, but chooses not to.

What causes LDS to come up with such odd statements?

I believe God is capable of anything good, being omnipotent. I also believe God wants His children in heaven to be full recepients, complete heirs of everything that he is capable to offer.

Will any of His children be disatisfied in His Presence? How is that even remotely possible?

What, then, is God capable to offer? What will his children inherit? I say they will inherit all that the Father has, without limit. There is no end to what God will bestow on his heirs in heaven. No end at all. Therefore the possibilities of what God will give us, teach us, and make us are limitless.

What He will make us has not been revealed in detail, but we know that we shall be like Him in holiness. We also know that we will not be Gods.

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (Isaiah 43:10)

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (Isaiah 44:8)

As Katz asked in another thread, why would a Christian object? Why would not a Christian fall to his knees with deeper humility and awe towards God than ever before, to know that such a mighty and omnipotent Being is willing to take sinfull fallen creatures, such as us, and through His mercy and grace, make us full heirs with Him in heaven and share all that He has?

Christians don't object to blessings and, I believe, most LDS know that we don't object to God's blessings. Christians do object to false doctrines. Being an heir of God's blessings, doesn't turn you into a God.

I beieve that the more we learn and inherit from God, the deeper our humility and gratitude will become and the more we will worship the Father and the Son forever.

Do you believe that non-LDS will worship God less in eternity than LDS? Do LDS exclude the Holy Ghost from their worship?

 

[Katzpur]

I would not criticize C. S. Lewis on the basis of his being Anglican.

Neither would Lunamoth. She's an Episcopalian which, as you know, is essentially the same thing. It was an inside joke, since she knows the high regard in which I hold members of her Church.

 

[Katzpur]

If God the Father has a physical form, what significance would there be in him assuming flesh FOR his people that he loves? It wouldn't be significant at all, since he already has one. The whole concept of a physical form is that it is limited. A limitless God with a physical form is a contradiction.

God the Father didn't "assume flesh for His people;" His Only Begotten Son did. But since you believe that a physical form is limiting, how do you think Jesus managed to calm a storm by simply saying, "Peace, be still"? If a being with a physical form can control the elements, I'd say there is pretty much no limit to what He can do.

 

[Katzpur]

Being an heir of God's blessings, doesn't turn you into a God.

I'd say it all depends on what those blessings are. If we are to be God's heirs, in fact, joint heirs with Christ, glorified with Him, able to partake of His divine nature, allowed to sit on His throne and rule over nations (all of which things the Bible teaches will be the case), what term do you think would be more suitable than a "god"?

Do LDS exclude the Holy Ghost from their worship?

Since He is part of the Godhead, it would be impossible to exclude Him. We don't pray to Him or look to Him for salvation, but we do recognize that He is the means by which we are able to communicate with our Heavenly Father. We seek to feel His presence at all times, so I would say that we do worship Him.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I'd say it all depends on what those blessings are. If we are to be God's heirs, in fact, joint heirs with Christ, glorified with Him, able to partake of His divine nature, allowed to sit on His throne and rule over nations (all of which things the Bible teaches will be the case), what term do you think would be more suitable than a "god"?

Saint would be perfectly suitable.

God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. (Psalm 89:7)


And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:3)

Since He is part of the Godhead, it would be impossible to exclude Him. We don't pray to Him or look to Him for salvation, but we do recognize that He is the means by which we are able to communicate with our Heavenly Father. We seek to feel His presence at all times, so I would say that we do worship Him.

I was wondering why Scott C. said:
"I beieve that the more we learn and inherit from God, the deeper our humility and gratitude will become and the more we will worship the Father and the Son forever."

Maybe he just forgot about the Holy Ghost.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Neither would Lunamoth. She's an Episcopalian which, as you know, is essentially the same thing. It was an inside joke, since she knows the high regard in which I hold members of her Church.

I know that she is an Episcopalian and I know of the similarity to Anglicans.

 

[Scott C.]

Do you believe that non-LDS will worship God less in eternity than LDS? Do LDS exclude the Holy Ghost from their worship?

My point was not that non-LDS will worship God less. Often, LDS are criticized for their belief in exaltation on the grounds that it's arrogant to think that God will make so much of us in the next life. Also, critics will say that our doctrine lessens God by implying that we will become like God. Finally, some say that our doctrine implies that at some point in our eternal future we will no longer worship God.

The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

My point was not that non-LDS will worship God less. Often, LDS are criticized for their belief in exaltation on the grounds that it's arrogant to think that God will make so much of us in the next life.

Rather than labeling the belief arrogant, they should stick to the fact that is unbiblical.

Also, critics will say that our doctrine lessens God by implying that we will become like God.

All Christians believe that we are to become like God. That is biblical. They ought to stick to the fact that it is unbiblical to claim man will at some point attain godhood.

Finally, some say that our doctrine implies that at some point in our eternal future we will no longer worship God.

They do not understand LDS doctrine. Each God will always worship the God he worshipped on an earth such as ours.

The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also.

Well, those may be LDS reasons to worship God, but those reasons would not apply to Christians. We worship God because He is God, and because He loves us with an unfathomable love.

 

[Katzpur]

Saint would be perfectly suitable.

God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. (Psalm 89:7)


And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:3)

I see. We believe that saints are the followers of Christ, and that a person doesn't need to have died in order to be called a saint.

 

[Scott C.]

We worship God because He is God, and because He loves us with an unfathomable love.

And so do I.

 

[edward]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. My apologies for not replying sooner.

This scripture is referring to the resurerction from the dead. Paul is referring to the resurrected body as a "spiritual body". He also differentiates between the mortal body and resurrected body in verse 42, when he says the body will be raised in "incorruption".

I agree.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples after the resurrection, he said he had flesh and bone. This resurrected body is what Paul refers to as "raised in incorruption" or "raised a spiritual body". If we believe the language "raised a spiritual body" means the resurrection is not actually physical, that contradicts the physical resurrection of Christ.

This not germaine to the topic of pre-existant spirits. However, when you are comparing the resurrection of Christ with that of mortals, I believe that you may be mixing apples and hamburgers. Do you believe that after we are resurrected that we will walk the face of the earth for forty days as our Lord did?

I believe we existed as spirit beings first, then we came to earth where we were clothed with a physical and corruptible or natural (mortal) body. In the resurrection we will be clothed with a physical and incorruptible (immortal) body which Paul calls a "spiritual body".

So what you are saying is that Paul was mistaken when he said "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." I Cor 15:46" (KJV)

I'm not sure if you believe that we will be resurrected with physical bodies. Do you?

This is what I believe, " 51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

IOW, I know not exactly what type of body I may have. I only know that I will shed this corruptible body in exchange for eternal, everlasting life where death reigns no more.

I'm also not sure if you believe that right now we have a "spirit" which is clothed in flesh. Do you?

Yes. However, I do not believe that it was a pre-existant intellegence that has existed for eternities past.

Thanks again for your response.

Edward

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I see. We believe that saints are the followers of Christ, and that a person doesn't need to have died in order to be called a saint.

We follow Christ on earth and we follow Christ after we die. We are God's saints.

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. (Psalm 116:15)

In heaven, God is still King of the saints:

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:3)

 

[ἀλήθεια]

And so do I.

So aren't you claiming that you have more reason to worship God than non-LDS:

"The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also."

Why would your doctrine cause an increase in " appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also?" Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

 

[Scott C.]

So aren't you claiming that you have more reason to worship God than non-LDS:

"The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also."

Why would your doctrine cause an increase in " appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also?" Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

The greater the gift received, especially when unmerited, the greater the gratitude.

 

[Scott C.]

This not germaine to the topic of pre-existant spirits. However, when you are comparing the resurrection of Christ with that of mortals, I believe that you may be mixing apples and hamburgers. Do you believe that after we are resurrected that we will walk the face of the earth for forty days as our Lord did?

I believe when we are resurrected that we will have the same type of body that Jesus has. He set the pattern. He was the first to rise from the dead and opened the door for all to rise from the dead. He was raised incorruptible and we will be raised incorruptible.

While Jesus of course had a different mission from us and in some ways we don't compare with Jesus, I believe that the resurrection of Christ into a body of flesh and bones is an apples to apples comparison with our own resurrection.

So what you are saying is that Paul was mistaken when he said "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." I Cor 15:46" (KJV)

I'm not sure what you're telling me that Paul is saying here. If the physical body is created before the spiritual body, are you suggesting that when we're conceived in the womb, that the physical body is first conceived and later God creates the spirit?

Since I believe Paul is talking about the resurrection, which will happen long after the creation of our spirits (whether you believe in a pre-existant state or not), Paul's statement does not answer the question of when our spirits were created.

IOW, I know not exactly what type of body I may have. I only know that I will shed this corruptible body in exchange for eternal, everlasting life where death reigns no more.

Interesting. Do you believe the body will be physical or is that unknown?

 

[Katzpur]

Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

Ours states that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be made clean. If we are, in fact, made clean, and have been made perfect in Him, we are worthy to receive those blessings. A non-LDS Christian attending an LDS Church worship service might find it surprising to hear us described as sons and daughters of God, and not as depraved, wretched sinners. Once we have entered into a covenant relationship with our Savior, and have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, there is never a need for us to think of ourselves in any other way, provided, of course, we remain true to the terms of the covenant we've made.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

The greater the gift received, especially when unmerited, the greater the gratitude.

You cannot receive a blessing from God without deserving it for your scripture clearly states that you must do X to receive Y. It is a law and obedience is a law of LDS heaven. There are no blessings handed out without the recipient's obedience as a requirement for that blessing.

There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. (Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21)