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Do Christians think it matters that Non-Christians aspire to be good and moral?

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is. However, I'm also familiar with more progressive views, that tend toward the Abrahamic God looking at intention and actions.

The question is this, and maybe some explanation with your answer would be nice too. I'd appreciate it: Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?

That some of us (like Buddhists) even aspire to non-violence and high compassion.

Do Christians think we're still absolutely condemned? I guess I thought this would make a good religious forums question.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is. However, I'm also familiar with more progressive views, that tend toward the Abrahamic God looking at intention and actions.

The question is this, and maybe some explanation with your answer would be nice too. I'd appreciate it: Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?

That some of us (like Buddhists) even aspire to non-violence and high compassion.

Do Christians think we're still absolutely condemned? I guess I thought this would make a good religious forums question.
There is the clear teaching that all shall be judged by their actions. Since I am not the judge, I cannot say what this means exactly. What I can say is that an extreme calamity is prophesied to come upon earth soon. It seems that the indication is that 90% if not more of all humanity shall perish during this time.

So, all we can do is do our best and hope for the same.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
That non-Christians aspire to be good is not in and of itself surprising. It is even stated by Saint Paul that precepts of the moral law are written in the very hearts of men. Every individual knows to some degree what right and wrong are, provided said individual has not darkened their conscience either by will or by habitual mortal sin.

The problem is that salvation isn't merited simply by being good. You cannot earn your way into Heaven per se. Salvation is achieved by cooperation with the unmerited grace of God. Those who obstinately resist the truth and remain outside the Church are not cooperating with that grace and thus cut themselves off from the only means of salvation which has been revealed to us by God. John 14:6

Does that mean all non-Christians are dammed? Not necessarily, as one cannot be justly condemned for that which one is not culpable. Not everyone outside the Church is so by informed obstinate rejection. The culpability of each individual is for God alone to judge. Nevertheless, any non-Christians who attain salvation will attain it by the mercy of Christ and not by virtue of any non-Christian religion which said non-Christians may have practiced.
 
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Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is. However, I'm also familiar with more progressive views, that tend toward the Abrahamic God looking at intention and actions.
Yes, this tends to be the Catholic view nowadays. We Orthodox are also fond of saying "We know where the Holy Spirit is, but we don't know where He isn't". That is, we know that God is with His Church and with the faithful who dwell within it, but we cannot say that God has forsaken everyone else. We speak of God as being the merciful and the lover of mankind (Philanthropos in Greek).

It is true that good works are only called "good" in God's eyes if they are done in faith, and it is true that those who reject the faith have some bad chances. But when it comes to those who reject Christianity when they hear about it, who is really responsible? I think it's often the Christian(s) who did a bad job of evangelizing and gave a bad witness to the Faith through their hypocritical action, and in so doing turned people away from Christ. So in that sense I'm not sure many non-believers can always be held accountable for a lack of faith--that penalty will be on those who disgraced Christianity before others. Scripture says over and over that we will be judged by our works (I think I just made every Calvinist and Reformed Christian cringe).

The question is this, and maybe some explanation with your answer would be nice too. I'd appreciate it: Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?
Absolutely it matters. If people who don't believe in Christianity still try their best to live lives of righteousness, then the world will be far better off for it. If you asked Christ or any of the Apostles whether they would rather see non-believers engage in cannibalism, murder, thievery, revenge-killings, incest and whatever other depravities you can imagine on the one hand, or whether they would rather see non-believers taking care of the poor and the sick, keeping it in their pants, having healthy relationships that lead to stable and happy marriages, forgiving grudges against one another and being reasonable human beings, they would undoubtedly prefer the latter.

That some of us (like Buddhists) even aspire to non-violence and high compassion.
Which is very highly commendable.

Do Christians think we're still absolutely condemned? I guess I thought this would make a good religious forums question.
Christians don't know who will be saved, and any who claim to be able to tell you anything to the contrary with 100% certitude (including me) are full of it. But, one part of Scripture I've found interesting...
Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, this tends to be the Catholic view nowadays.
Absolutely false, which can be found in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", whereas the teaching is that those outside the Christian faith may be saved because of "Jesus's sacrifice". Pope Francis has reiterated this on numerous occasions, including within the last year when commenting on atheists and Muslims, for examples.

Catholics, including the clergy, are told not to judge others because that's not the role of the church-- it's God's role.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Absolutely false, which can be found in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", whereas the teaching is that those outside the Christian faith may be saved because of "Jesus's sacrifice". Pope Francis has reiterated this on numerous occasions, including within the last year when commenting on atheists and Muslims, for examples.

Catholics, including the clergy, are told not to judge others because that's not the role of the church-- it's God's role.
I think we may have had a miscommunication here. What I was commenting on was that Catholics hold the idea that God looks at intentions and actions.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is.
This is a much more common belief of fundamentalist Protestants, many referring to themselves as being "Evangelicals", plus found with JW's. Many mainline ("liberal), but not all, Protestants tend not to echo this approach.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
BTW, to go along with the OP, I've seen a sharp decline of Baptist churches, who are heavy into the "born again" approach, in my area. They grew in the 60's and 70's here, but now they're shutting down and being largely replaced by Pentecostal churches, especially those related to the Assemblies of God.

Anyone else seeing this in their area?
 
Hmm. Well. Anyone can aspire to be moral. It's part of the human nature. Morality is part of humanity, not part of a certain religion or whatever. That's it. Anyone can be good, anyone can aspire to reach their potential in justice, peace, love and maturity (faith too of course)
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?
Firstly lets dissect believers from religious textual ideas... A Christian having been taught to see things a certain way, doesn't always know where that is textually substantiated.

Thus Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels stated that those who do the work of the father, are his brothers, and sisters (Matthew 12:50); that in doing so, we let our works glorify our father in Heaven, and so becoming children of light (Matthew 5:16).

It is only when we come to the Gospel of John, that it tells us multiple times we have to believe in jesus for salvation, and that there is no other way, yet through him.

Paul and Simon amplify that, in terms of making it we cut off from anyone who is not a Christian, and that we shouldn't be unevenly yolked with unbelievers.

Thus someone who follows John, Paul and Simon's Christianity is likely to think a non Christian will not be saved, whereas someone following the teaching's of Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels will recognize it is about doing the work of God, and reaching a state of Enlightenment, where we share the knowledge of God (Daniel 12:3), else we will not make it through into the Messianic Age.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is. However, I'm also familiar with more progressive views, that tend toward the Abrahamic God looking at intention and actions.

The question is this, and maybe some explanation with your answer would be nice too. I'd appreciate it: Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?

That some of us (like Buddhists) even aspire to non-violence and high compassion.

Do Christians think we're still absolutely condemned? I guess I thought this would make a good religious forums question.

I believe the saying is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Actions that are good are always desired but the question is not how good you can be but whether you get into the Kingdom of God or go to Hell and the standard for that is perfection which only can be achieved by attribution for those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe it matters during temporal times when judgement of God will determine a persons karma for his next life. For a person who does not make it into the Kingdom and receive eternal life it doesn't matter.

I believe as do Muslims that it is more important to do God's will. The problem with some Muslims and CHristians in the past is that they thought their own will was consistent with God's will when it wasn't.


I believe that will be determined at the at the last judgement but the standard remains the same.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is a much more common belief of fundamentalist Protestants, many referring to themselves as being "Evangelicals", plus found with JW's. Many mainline ("liberal), but not all, Protestants tend not to echo this approach.

I believe the liberals are in error and such teaching may very well land them in Hell.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
BTW, to go along with the OP, I've seen a sharp decline of Baptist churches, who are heavy into the "born again" approach, in my area. They grew in the 60's and 70's here, but now they're shutting down and being largely replaced by Pentecostal churches, especially those related to the Assemblies of God.

Anyone else seeing this in their area?

I believe the number of Baptist churches has increased in our area but a quasi Pentecostal church is growing by leaps and bounds. Our area is largely Catholic so I am guessing most of the Pentecostal converts are former Catholics. One of the Catholic churches shut down. The AOG seems to be a tiny minority here and appears to have remained the same.
 

socharlie

Active Member
I'm aware of the line of thought in Christianity that goes toward exclusivity, and says it doesn't matter how good a non-believer is. However, I'm also familiar with more progressive views, that tend toward the Abrahamic God looking at intention and actions.

The question is this, and maybe some explanation with your answer would be nice too. I'd appreciate it: Do Christians think it matters that non-Christians aspire to good?

That some of us (like Buddhists) even aspire to non-violence and high compassion.

Do Christians think we're still absolutely condemned? I guess I thought this would make a good religious forums question.
I think that Buddhism and Christianity came from the same source.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
I think that Buddhism and Christianity came from the same source.

That is always an interesting view, so- mind expounding on it? I only ask because I want to understand what leads you to accept such conclusion, since obviously Buddhism is my worldview, and I believe it's truth is important. Buddhism is almost night and day with Orthodox Christianity theologically, but we share some ethical positions for sure- including that our founders saw humanity rather than their nations versus barbarians. They saw a general human race with a common human condition.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Do you mean that Jesus might have picked up some eastern thinking somewhere and modified it to his Jewish reform movement? Because I'd agree with you there. Jesus seems to have taught ahimsa: total non-violence, and while the gospels aren't clear he extended that ethic to non-human life, there were sects like the Ebionites that insisted on vegetarianism.

I enjoy talking about Buddhism and Christianity comparatively because I feel it seems to bear the marks of eastern influence. There are problems though when suggesting they might be the same.
 

socharlie

Active Member
That is always an interesting view, so- mind expounding on it? I only ask because I want to understand what leads you to accept such conclusion, since obviously Buddhism is my worldview, and I believe it's truth is important. Buddhism is almost night and day with Orthodox Christianity theologically, but we share some ethical positions for sure- including that our founders saw humanity rather than their nations versus barbarians. They saw a general human race with a common human condition.
Christ Jesus is about liberation of physical world incarnations through enlightenment. I see Higher World Forces involved in combining Ancient Wisdom that was given around the world with age and cultural differences into Christ consciousness. That is at the end of the day Buddhism and Christianity is the same. Orthodox Christianity is ignorant of that,
 
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