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Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?
- Thread starter spirit_of_dawn
- Start date
You haven’t provided any specifics though. What parts of the bible do you believe in? You don’t even believe Christ was crucified yet you take issue with how Baha’is interpret the Bible. The truth is most Muslims see the Gospels and Torah as corrupted and superseded by the Quran. Then when I highlight the irony, you take it personally.
We have our beliefs as you have yours. You believe Muhammad split the moon and that’s fine by me. Shi’a Muslims are entitled to their beliefs as the Baha’is are entitled to theirs.
The Baha’is aren’t telling you what to believe. We’re all adults here. I choose Baha’i as you choose Islam.
Why are Iranian Muslims so troubled by those with differing points of view?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Please could you share with us about any miracles that Bahai accepts really occurred. Or possibly you could tell us about any miracle that you personally believe happened?
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Of course I don't provide off-topic specifics. We were speaking about miracles and I said I believe in them.
Your statement was in line point 12,13 & 19.
Point 13 and 19.
Baha'i Debating Practices:
1- That quote doesn't exist.
2- If it exists, it's not part of Baha'i writings.
3- If it's part of Baha'i writings it doesn't have an official translation.
4- If it has an official translation, you deliberately cited a thorny quote while ignoring the others.
5- If you weren't citing a thorny quote, you were twisting the statement to build a narrative of falsehood.
6- If you were not building a narrative of falsehood, you were taking it out of context.
7- If it hasn't been taken out of context, it's a statement that refers to the beliefs Islam or Christianity.
8- If it doesn't refer to the beliefs of Islam or Christianity it's a metaphor, allegory, or symbolic.
9- If it's not a metaphor, allegory, or symbolic you have an axe to grind.
10- If you don't have an axe to grind you are a Muslim from Iran and cannot be trusted.
11- If you are not a Muslim from Iran you still refuse to see the light.
12- If you are seeing the light then your beliefs are no better than ours (or whataboutism).
13- If everything else fails, an excuse will be found to somehow divert the discussion to Islam and Iran or blame them for everything.
14- It's all right to say bad things about the Muslim clergy because they refused to believe in Baha'u'llah and stood up against him.
15- Every barbaric act performed by the followers of the Bab was due to Islamic teachings.
16- Don't tell me what Baha'i is. After being a Baha'i for so and so years I would know better.
17- Baha’u’llah can bend his own laws and break them as he pleases because he was sent by God.
18- All unscientific statements of the leaders will be proven to be in conformity with science in the future.
19- Respectfully asks an irrelevant but seemingly relevant question to divert the discussion to something less problematic.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
They believe everything in the Holy Books is symbolic and their leaders must interpret them one way or another:
"As to the record in the Bible concerning Adam's entering paradise, His eating from the tree and His expulsion through the temptation of Satan: These are all symbols beneath which there are wonderful and divine meanings not to be calculated in years, dates and measurement of time. Likewise, the statement that God created the heaven and the earth in six days is symbolic. We will not explain this further today. The texts of the Holy Books are all symbolical, needing authoritative interpretation." (Abdu'l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 219-220)
I don't go reading through Baha'i stuff to find quotes out of context. This was from a pro Baha'i writer site. So, if anything, it was that Baha'i adherent that took it out of context, not me. When debates pop up, I like to research both sides. It's only fair and sensible.
As you might expect, I personally believe in miracles. They happen all the time, all around us. But then too, some fraudsters can play tricks of deception to think stuff they do is miraculous.
Or just ignore them. Lots of folks really don't care much about what other faith adherents are up to. But some seem to pay more attention to faiths not their own than they do to their own. Odd that.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Thank you for that.
I don't think that they can answer you.
You’re of course taking the respect for science too far. Your next thread start will be about why don’t Baha’s believe in God (because of your science argument). I guess I’m getting tired of even reading your posts.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
It is not my science argument, it is the Baha'i Science argument.
As it is you posting all these subjects, you could answer Adrians Question. He has asked it a few times.
Are you going to share the answer as to "Why are Iranian Muslims so troubled by those with differing points of view?"
Baha'u'llah has said the biggest miracle the Messengers of God bring is, that they Change the heart and mind of the people that receive the Message. This is why the Bab and Baha'u'llah were rejected and persecuted by those that had joined partners with Allah.
These Messages do have the power to change the Heart and Mind. Many that hear of the all embracing oneness taught by the Bab and Baha'u'llah embrace the teachings, what other miracle do you need?
Is that not proof enough? It is why all the Messenger have faced persecution and rejection by a decadent civilization, throughout all of history.
So now you have the chance to answer;
"Why are Iranian Muslims so troubled by those with differing points of views?"
Peace be with you, regards Tony
I would not personally offer any of these as proof. It would just be the greatest insult as to why Baha'u'llah was given the Message He has shared with us.
Imagine the greatest miracle. Oldbadger now and oldbadger a Baha'i next week.
This happens in this world, on a daily basis and please, my advice is never say never.
Regards Tony
That is not entirely correct and that has also been preciously explained.
Peace be with one and all. Regards Tony
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Thus I would suggest this is why Baha'u'llah said they can not be used as proof.
Personally I like to balance them using what we currently know about science.
Regards Tony
I would not personally offer any of these as proof. It would just be the greatest insult as to why Baha'u'llah was given the Message He has shared with us.
Imagine the greatest miracle. Oldbadger now and oldbadger a Baha'i next week.
This happens in this world, on a daily basis and please, my advice is never say never.
Regards Tony
Thats my answer.
Regards Tony
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
I, as an Iranian Muslim, am not troubled by those with differing points of view. I might strongly debate with them, but I am not troubled by them. Generalizing your personal experience with a small group of people to 80 million Iranian Muslims is absurd, pathetic, and irresponsible.
Right, the Baha'i Science argument you don't seem to understand very well.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
The Baha'i science argument:
"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.
What I understand from this is that miracles are outright superstition because they are "contrary to the standards of science". So, unless you can disprove my understanding, you are the one that fails to understand the Baha'i science argument.