Do Animals Believe in the Supernatural?

[Nakosis]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

That probably depends on the animal and how it thinks. Campbell told me about three levels of thinking.

The first level is perception. Have you ever zoned out on a walk? Your body is still taking in information and responding. After all, you aren’t bonking into trees. But you aren’t actively thinking about it.

The second level is the awareness you have when you aren’t zoned out. You aren’t just avoiding trees on autopilot. You’re noticing them and thinking about them.

The third level is being aware that you’re aware. This is self-conscious awareness or meta-level thinking. That means you’re thinking about those trees and noticing your thoughts about them. Maybe you think how incredible it is that a tiny seed can grow huge and eventually give off the oxygen that’s filling your own lungs.

You might even feel awe or a deep connection to nature.

We know humans have self-conscious awareness because we can talk about it. It’s more difficult to figure out if other animals do, too.

The most famous chimpanzee expert in the world—Jane Goodall—says she’s sure chimpanzees feel awe and simply don’t have language to describe it. When chimps see thundering waterfalls, they seem to dance in wonder.
Do animals have religion like humans? | Ask Dr. Universe | Washington State University

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think I don't know.

I only know I don't use the word supernatural, because, to me, all phenomena that appears in this reality is natural.

I do think, however, other animals can experience awe, which is what the linked article discusses. You left out the line immediately before your quoted material from the article and replaced it with a premise of your own...

So, do animals experience awe?​

 

[Nakosis]

I think I don't know.

I only know I don't use the word supernatural, because, to me, all phenomena that appears in this reality is natural.

I do think, however, other animals can experience awe, which is what the linked article discusses. You left out the line immediately before your quoted material from the article and replaced it with a premise of your own...

So, do animals experience awe?​

Supernatural to me is a belief in unknowable forces. Today we know a lot about the forces that impact the universe so there exist less of a need to believe in some unknown force controlling things.

Seemed obvious that more intelligent animals experience awe. I suppose I can still experience awe without the need to believe in unknowable forces so not necessarily an indicator for supernatural belief.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Supernatural to me is a belief in unknowable forces. Today we know a lot about the forces that impact the universe so there exist less of a need to believe in some unknown force controlling things.

You mention "today". If we go back five hundred years, and look at the world through that lens, is gravity supernatural? Black holes? Certainly, these were unknown forces that impacted our universe.

As I see it, because something isn't currently known doesn't render it unknowable or supernatural.

 

[Nakosis]

You mention "today". If we go back five hundred years, and look at the world through that lens, is gravity supernatural? Black holes? Certainly, these were unknown forces that impacted our universe.

As I see it, because something isn't currently known doesn't render it unknowable or supernatural.

Sure, no reason to believe in the supernatural.

Just wondering with the question of when humans started believing in the supernatural. If animals held some kind of supernatural beliefs maybe we got it from pre-human ancestors.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

That probably depends on the animal and how it thinks. Campbell told me about three levels of thinking.

The first level is perception. Have you ever zoned out on a walk? Your body is still taking in information and responding. After all, you aren’t bonking into trees. But you aren’t actively thinking about it.

The second level is the awareness you have when you aren’t zoned out. You aren’t just avoiding trees on autopilot. You’re noticing them and thinking about them.

The third level is being aware that you’re aware. This is self-conscious awareness or meta-level thinking. That means you’re thinking about those trees and noticing your thoughts about them. Maybe you think how incredible it is that a tiny seed can grow huge and eventually give off the oxygen that’s filling your own lungs.

You might even feel awe or a deep connection to nature.

We know humans have self-conscious awareness because we can talk about it. It’s more difficult to figure out if other animals do, too.

The most famous chimpanzee expert in the world—Jane Goodall—says she’s sure chimpanzees feel awe and simply don’t have language to describe it. When chimps see thundering waterfalls, they seem to dance in wonder.
Do animals have religion like humans? | Ask Dr. Universe | Washington State University

An interesting question. It has been also on my mind. It's difficult to answer. I don't know if (other) animals have the concept of transcendence. I guess not but I might be wrong.

Thomas Nagel argues that while a human might be able to imagine what it is like to be a bat by taking "the bat's point of view", it would still be impossible "to know what it is like for a bat to be a bat."

What Is It Like to Be a Bat? - Wikipedia

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

A lot of them have superior physical and intuitive senses, so they can get a good look at things most people can't, or sense when something is off. As for believe, we don't speak each other's languages so it's impossible to communicate effectively.

 

[Bear Wild]

Sure, no reason to believe in the supernatural.

Just wondering with the question of when humans started believing in the supernatural. If animals held some kind of supernatural beliefs maybe we got it from pre-human ancestors.

Supernatural is a recent human idea based on a artificial division of nature and supernatural which does not exist in societies connected with nature. This is an intellectual and not real division. So many human societies intimately interacting with the land have no reason for a supernatural as so why would an animal living in the wild ever need such construct. As for are animals capable of self awareness, this is another unnecessary disconnect that is an artificial construct of humans. As for religion, that requires a clear understanding of religion. Do animals experience awe? There is no reason to believe they don't, unless you are one of those who sees humans as not animal and seperate from our natural world.

 

[Bear Wild]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

That probably depends on the animal and how it thinks. Campbell told me about three levels of thinking.

The first level is perception. Have you ever zoned out on a walk? Your body is still taking in information and responding. After all, you aren’t bonking into trees. But you aren’t actively thinking about it.

The second level is the awareness you have when you aren’t zoned out. You aren’t just avoiding trees on autopilot. You’re noticing them and thinking about them.

The third level is being aware that you’re aware. This is self-conscious awareness or meta-level thinking. That means you’re thinking about those trees and noticing your thoughts about them. Maybe you think how incredible it is that a tiny seed can grow huge and eventually give off the oxygen that’s filling your own lungs.

You might even feel awe or a deep connection to nature.

We know humans have self-conscious awareness because we can talk about it. It’s more difficult to figure out if other animals do, too.

The most famous chimpanzee expert in the world—Jane Goodall—says she’s sure chimpanzees feel awe and simply don’t have language to describe it. When chimps see thundering waterfalls, they seem to dance in wonder.
Do animals have religion like humans? | Ask Dr. Universe | Washington State University

The levels of awareness presented are artificial and misunderstand or worse create a false hierarchy to make humans feel special. Some of the most profound discoveries come from the second level and then brought to the third. Animals to be effectively interacting with their environment must have the three states operating all at the same time to survive.

 

[Nakosis]

An interesting question. It has been also on my mind. It's difficult to answer. I don't know if (other) animals have the concept of transcendence. I guess not but I might be wrong.

Thomas Nagel argues that while a human might be able to imagine what it is like to be a bat by taking "the bat's point of view", it would still be impossible "to know what it is like for a bat to be a bat."

What Is It Like to Be a Bat? - Wikipedia

Yeah, I've thought about the bat a lot. They "see" with sound. Does that mean their brain interprets sound signals similar to how our brain interprets light?

Certainly humans have a very narrow perspective of the universe.

 

[Nakosis]

The levels of awareness presented are artificial and misunderstand or worse create a false hierarchy to make humans feel special. Some of the most profound discoveries come from the second level and then brought to the third. Animals to be effectively interacting with their environment must have the three states operating all at the same time to survive.

They did some test of self awareness on animals and found that some animals showed animals like chimps and dogs showed signs of self awareness. Couldn't tell with cats though. Cats don't seem to care enough to display signs of self awareness.

 

[Bear Wild]

They did some test of self awareness on animals and found that some animals showed animals like chimps and dogs showed signs of self awareness. Couldn't tell with cats though. Cats don't seem to care enough to display signs of self awareness.

All of that just indicates our lack of understanding how to determine self awareness in many animals and not indictive of its existence. Our limitations does not mean a lacking in others. We know that in humans the lack of self awareness influences fine adjustments in behavior such as in driving a car. The self awareness is essential for the necessary adjustments in behavior for hunting as an example.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

Actually there is science to examine.

For most animals, we have no evidence of any belief in the supernatural. But chimps for example do have behaviors that if a human did those things we would immediately say it is religious. Let me give you two examples.
1. Chimps will dance in environments that are tremendous, such as at a waterfall or during a storm.
2. Chimps build cairns of rocks at particular trees, denoting those trees as something significant to them.

 

[Madsaac]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

That probably depends on the animal and how it thinks. Campbell told me about three levels of thinking.

The first level is perception. Have you ever zoned out on a walk? Your body is still taking in information and responding. After all, you aren’t bonking into trees. But you aren’t actively thinking about it.

The second level is the awareness you have when you aren’t zoned out. You aren’t just avoiding trees on autopilot. You’re noticing them and thinking about them.

The third level is being aware that you’re aware. This is self-conscious awareness or meta-level thinking. That means you’re thinking about those trees and noticing your thoughts about them. Maybe you think how incredible it is that a tiny seed can grow huge and eventually give off the oxygen that’s filling your own lungs.

You might even feel awe or a deep connection to nature.

We know humans have self-conscious awareness because we can talk about it. It’s more difficult to figure out if other animals do, too.

The most famous chimpanzee expert in the world—Jane Goodall—says she’s sure chimpanzees feel awe and simply don’t have language to describe it. When chimps see thundering waterfalls, they seem to dance in wonder.
Do animals have religion like humans? | Ask Dr. Universe | Washington State University

Yeah, good question and lots to ponder.

I often wonder about consciousness and how much it affects our behaviour, including animals and infants, at what point do humans reach consciousness.

Maybe they do think about the supernatural on some level but understanding this is beyond us at the moment.

However, would an animal, if it could think more 'consciencely' think about the supernatural when they're main goal is to survive?

 

[Bear Wild]

Yeah, good question and lots to ponder.

I often wonder about consciousness and how much it affects our behaviour, including animals and infants, at what point do humans reach consciousness.

Maybe they do think about the supernatural on some level but understanding this is beyond us at the moment.

However, would an animal, if it could think more 'consciencely' think about the supernatural when they're main goal is to survive?

First there is not need for the belief of the supernatural in religion. that is a position of some religions and not others. As for consciousness the answer is in their behavior to see that they are indeed conscious and have to have some awareness of self. This has to be present in social animals to interact in such complex ways. Jane Goodall and those who followed her identified incredible evidence of complex social behaviors, cultural behaviors that spread over time though a group which depends on recognition of the self, "political" behavior in social animals requiring assessment of oneself against in recruiting allies. Even pack hunt of wolves not only requires full awareness of yourself in relationship to your environment and the pray but in assessment of location and actions of the pack. In humans we know if you block the self awareness humans can function and drive cars for instance but not compensate adequately without self awareness. Accidents of people on zolpidem show how without the self awareness they do not handle curves, drive straight without some weaving, or hand complex situations. Self awareness allows for the fine adjustments necessary for survival. Animals would starve without this ability to perform fine adjustments of self to other.

What is the reason that some scientists do not attribute it to animals? Because we document self awareness thought language so anyone we cannot understand cannot be demonstrated to have self awareness at least until Dr. Doolittle can proclaim himself and talk to the animals. Denying consciousness to animals is scientism.

 

[HonestJoe]

Of course there is no scientific answer to that question, but what do you think?

You're raising two related but distinct questions here; Do (other) animals have religion? and Do (other) animals believe in the supernatural?

As has been pointed out, some animals do seems to engage in behaviour which could be considered religious, things that don't have any immediately apparent purpose but becomes habitual and even passed down generations. It's probably even a clue as to the very early origins of what became the first true human religious beliefs and practices.

I would suggest that belief in "the supernatural" requires a level of imaginative intelligence that, as far as we can tell, only humans possess. I'm sure there are animals who observe things they don't understand and reach some kind of imaginative conclusion about them to help them handle the fear of the unknown. What I don't think they'll do is create the concept of some entirely separate class of things beyond simply mundane things not (yet) fully understood.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

When, for example, a hawk catches a rabbit, exactly what behavior would we need to see to be able to conclude that the hawk either does or does not think or otherwise express "Thank You" to its prey, or to the spirit of the land that it lives upon?

I don't think there is any way for us to know...but my guess is that as our human ancestors and our modern indigenous cultures always thought of themselves as embedded within networks of relationship with the other inhabitants of their environment, including ones that can't always or even ever be seen, so too the 'animals' are acutely aware of their network of relationships with entities...some of which may not be visible to us...

Is that then 'supernatural?' Is that then "religion?'

I don't know...

 

[Bear Wild]

I would suggest that belief in "the supernatural" requires a level of imaginative intelligence that, as far as we can tell, only humans possess. I'm sure there are animals who observe things they don't understand and reach some kind of imaginative conclusion about them to help them handle the fear of the unknown. What I don't think they'll do is create the concept of some entirely separate class of things beyond simply mundane things not (yet) fully understood.

First supernatural is a modern construct resulting in the loss of connection with the numinous around and not necessary in cultures that remain connected to the greater than human world. Second there is no reason to believe that animals do not have a high level of imaginative intelligence. To make modify and carry tools requires the imaginative process. Play in animals is also imaginative. When a raven picks up a flat smooth object, carries it to a snow covered roof to slide down again and again with a second raven joining in, we have imagination that is complex.

 

[Ajax]

I'm certain that animals do not have "religions" because it involves complex thinking that is unique to humans. However very few of them do have behaviors which we humans think wrongly that they resemble our own behaviors towards religion. Most of them though show fear in unknown and usually loud noise circumstances, which is natural because it was passed down to them from earlier generations.

 

[Bear Wild]

I'm certain that animals do not have "religions" because it involves complex thinking that is unique to humans. However very few of them do have behaviors which we humans think wrongly that they resemble our own behaviors towards religion. Most of them though show fear in unknown and usually loud noise circumstances, which is natural because it was passed down to them from earlier generations.

To make this statement quite clear so you must know what kinds of thinking is required for religion and please explain the the type of thinking required. What exactly do humans have that no other animal has which is required for religion? Please be kind to give specific aspects rather that just opinion and where does your evidence come from.