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Discourse on Creation and Evolution

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by iris89, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone:

    FIRST, I wish to establish a thread for discussion of creation vs. evolution and to discuss the wonderful things God (YHWH) has provided for us such as the many plants and animals for our enjoyment and use.

    SECOND, Let's post interesting items on the trees, plants, and animals God (YHWH) created for our enjoyment and use. Remember God (YHWH) placed the first human pair in a garden paradise, the Garden of Eden. To let all know, I am a member of the Rare Fruit Council International and plan to post discourses on some of these and would enjoy having others post items on rare vegetables, fruit and nut trees, etc.

    THIRD, Here is a short Discourse on Creation and Evolution that all should read and think about:

    Creation or Evolution?

    Why are there no exceptions to the laws of physics? Why does night follow day, the seasons follow one another, the stars and planets continue on course?

    Most Christians believe that the regularity, the design evident in the universe, points to God, a supreme creative Intelligence.

    Some scientists believe the universe is pointless, without rhyme or reason; that the human race is not the center piece, but a freak accident, the by-product of pointless material forces in a back water of the universe.

    Others believe it is reasonable to believe in God the Creator, concluding from a study of the scientific evidence that a Supreme Intelligence is at work.

    We do not believe God is like a super clockmaker, who then wound up the universe and left it to itself. We do not believe only in a god of the gaps, whom we use when we have no scientific explanation. We see God in the laws of nature. We do not believe in God because we need to do so, nor because we prefer to believe, as we prefer spaghetti rather than roast lamb and mint sauce. God often helps us feel good, but that is not a good reason to believe

    Many of us believe the universe has been fine-tuned for the existence of humans, that a place for humans was built into the universe from the beginning. In fact, we believe the cosmos was made with us in mind. What evidence is there for this?

    An enormous number of coincidences enable human life to exist. If the earth was smaller, gravity would be too weak to retain an atmosphere. If it were much bigger there would be too much hydrogen. If we were much closer to the sun it would be too hot for liquid water; if we were much further away it would be too cold for us.

    Almost one hundred chemical elements occur in nature, the smallest being hydrogen, which appeared soon after the Big Bang. Nearly all the other elements were forged later when giant stars exploded. Most of the elements in our bodies were made in explosions before our sun was born.

    If the force holding the hydrogen nuclei together had been much weaker, the process could not have gone past hydrogen. If this force had been only a bit stronger, the stars would have burned themselves out in millions of years, not the billions of years needed to produce life.

    The production of life has depended on a fantastic and delicate balance of forces. If the nature of space had been slightly different the universe could have collapsed a fraction of a second after it began; or undergone such ferocious expansion that all matter, even atoms, would have been torn apart quickly.

    We know now that neither the earth nor the sun is the centre of the universe. Our sun is like a pebble on an immense beach. Why is the universe so large?

    If the universe was the size of Europe it would have lasted a few milliseconds. A universe the size of our solar system would have lasted a few hours.

    To claim these coincidences and many others are the product of chance is like claiming a runaway truck in a rubbish dump produced the Mona Lisa.

    To sum it all up (E-equals-MxC2) shows energy and matter can not be created or destroyed by any mechanism known to man and yet one or the other or both had to come in existence at sometime or nothing we now know including mankind itself would exist. Therefore, even if a Bible that tells who created all did not exist, the universe and all in it would clearly show the existence of a Creator.

    Useful links (not mine):
    http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/EvolutionisaBIGLIE.html

    Your Friend In Christ Iris89
     
  2. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone:

    A BIOLOGIST LOOKS AT EVOLUTION/CREATION:

    A biologist sent me an email on how he looks at evolution/creation that all should read and learn from as it shows why from a point of reason that he believes in Creation and NOT Evolution:

    As a biologist i am often saturated by evolutionary teachings. i dont know much about textual criticism but i do know evolution/creation. so i thought i would share thoughts about what i know:

    according to some evolutionary theories our ancestor that branched into the human lineage and chimp lineage existed seven million yrs ago. it is also stated that we have about 3 billion base pairs in our dna which 3% or 90 million is expressed or used. compared to chimps there is only about a 1% difference from our base pairs to theirs.in other words their dna matches ours
    by about 99% which accounts for similarities.so only only 1% of 90 mill or about 90,000 base pairs in our dna is really what makes us human.

    well to many this proves evolution.it doesn't.according to this there were 90,000 mutations in only 7 mill yrs. all these mutations had to be profitable (mutations are harmful the majority of the time i.e.cancer)they had to be retained and passed on to the next generation.this is so unlikely. if we had a mutation in our pelvis/spinal column that favored pernament upright mvt or a mutation is our skin cells that shed all our chimp hair how did the mutations migraten into our sperm/ovaries. mutations anywhere else would simply die with us. they would have to occur in the sex cells to be passed on. not to mention the present rate of mutation in our sex cells is about 1/10,000 or 1/100,000 generations so it is impossible to have occured in 7 mill yrs. some who try and say evolution is a product of god use this to show only divine intervention could of made such mutations.........i feel this proves it is impossible.

    so why do we resemble lower animals? it is simple: we all came from the SAME god and were created by the SAME elements and live in the SAME environment so we should expect such similarities.

    now my question: could someone give me a pretty good list of stative verbs or is "was" and "is" the only ones? and what exactly qualifies something as a predicate nominative ? is it simply they are connected by stative verbs? my question stems from a point Broth Stafford made that many examples people use to show the nwt is not faithful to there translation principle of an anarthrous theos are not predicate nominatives and so i want to know what makes something such?................................................thanx

    Thus, we see even reasonable men of science thou not knowing much with respect know much about textual criticism still discerns the Truth with respect Creation from what he knows about science and mathmatics.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  3. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone:

    Here is a Commentary on the Black Saporte, Diospyros Digyna, of the family Ebenaceae:

    Genesis 1:29-30 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, [I have given] every green herb for food: and it was so. (American Standard Version)

    The Black Saporte, Diospyros Digyna, is a handsome evergreen fruit tree, that produces a greenish-brown thin skined fruit that can be eaten fresh, but in my opinion is much better when used in baked goods. I know one German lady that makes the most tasteful Black Saporte brownies that taste even better than chocolate ones. I, myself, am a great cook, but unfortunately not the best baker.

    The tree can grow to about 25 feet high with a width of 25 feet. Its leaves are very glossy dark green and appear as if someone polished them, leathery, alternate, with wavy margins. Originally the tree was a native to Mexico, but has spread throughout the warm areas of the tropics. Its flowers are quite small and white, and in Florida and the Caribbean it flowers in May and June. Unfortunately, it takes about nine months for the fruit to mature. I believe the ones on my tree will be ready in March.

    The tree does not like cold and freezes at about 29 degrees F. Also the tree likes moist, well-drained soil having a pH of between 5.5 to 7.0. It likes full sun or light shade, and makes a wonderful addition to the looks of any tropical garden. This tree can not take drought conditions.

    With respect propagation, seeds germinate in about 30 days, and seedling trees will fruit in about 5 years. The tree also does NOT have any serious pest problems. There is only one known variety, the Bell. The tree is sometimes called the Chocolate Pudding Fruit as the inside edible part of the fruit resembles chocolate pudding both with respect looks and taste when fully ripe, but has jet black seeds which chocolate pudding does not have. These seeds are very hard and one must be sure never to accidentally eat one. O'h the fruit is about the size of an orange.

    Thus as can readily be seen, our heavenly Father (YHWH) has provided wonderful things of creation for our physical needs and made them also beautiful to behold.

    Special note, Let's get a good discussion on the wonderful things of Creation God (YHWH) has provided for us. I have on this thread provided an excellent start. Let's get into growing wonders and not cults and negativity. I am a positive outgoing person and like everyone to be the same.

    Unfortunately, my black saporte tree did NOT weather hurricane Francis very well last week.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  4. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone:

    Here is a Commentary on Bountiful Trees and Vegetables God (YHWH) has provided for mankind, specifically the GUAVA, Psidium Guajava:

    In Genesis 1:11-13, "And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit-trees bearing fruit after their kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. (American Standard Version, ASV)

    One of my favorite fruits that God (YHWH) has so lovingly provided for the enjoyment of mankind is the tropical GUAVA, (Psidium Guajava). It produces a very sweet fruit of fine flavor and full of vitamin C. In many Spanish speaking countries they make a delightful paste out of it somewhat of the consistency of butter that can be put on sandwiches, crackers, etc. to impart a wonderful flavor.

    The common guave, Psidium Guajava, is a native to the American tropics, and has become widely distributed throughout all the warm areas of the world. In fact, its seedlings now grow wild in many areas of the tropics including south Florida and Hawaii. The common guave is often called lemon guava, pear guava, apple guava, etc. There are a great number of varieties all with different flavors some of which are more agreeable to the taste than others. Some of the varieties have round fruit, and others have oblong, pear shaped, and other shapes of fruit.

    Their flesh which you eat varies in shade from white to red, but in my opinion the red colored flesh taste the best and is the sweetest.

    Many food products are made from the common guava besides the paste previously mentioned. Some of these products are nectars, juices, pies, cakes, soda pop, pastries, etc. All are quite tasteful and enjoyable.

    There are several important named varieties such as the Strawberry Guava, P. Catteianum, or Cattley Guava which is one of my favorites. Of this species there are many varieties ranging in size from berry size to the size of an orange.

    Some Guavas are more cold hardy than others, but the berry size variety of the Strawberry Guava makes a very nice house plant in the north in a 5 to 10 gallon pot. Of course during the cold whether it must be kept in a warm area of the house. It will grown well in most well-drained loams, much, or sandy soils which are supplied with enough moisture. They require more water for their growth than do citrus trees. They are quite tolerant of acidity and alkalinity, doing well in all the circumneutral soils and even tolerating a pH down to 4.5 or up to 8.2. At either of these extremes they need more nitrogen than usual.

    Some of the recognized commercial cultivators in south Florida are: Red Indian, Ruby, Supreme, Miami Red, and Miami White. Much of the work on producing other desirable clones is being conducted by members of the Cuban community in Miami, and in Dade County.

    Your Friend Iris89
     
  5. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Commentary on The Fig Tree, One of the Wonders of Creation:

    Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of Jehovah of hosts hath spoken it. (American Standard Version; ASV)

    The fig tree is one of the marvels of creation by Almighty God (YHWH). Many evolutionist claim life came about by chance reaction of elements to form low levels of life, but forget that the food for any life form must also be present for life to be sustained. Therefore, the fact that food sources, plants, were available at the right time, when an animal or reptile life form came into existence proves a higher power or intelligence was behind the appearance of life on the planet earth. Also, the right atmosphere must be present or the life form can not continue to exist; many other things must be present for a life form to succeed which the evolutionist conveniently forgot about or failed to take into account; therefore, the only answer is God (YHWH) as stated at Genesis 1:20, "And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." (ASV).

    The fig tree played a major part in life at the time of Jesus (Yeshua) and he used it in several powerful illustrations such as at Matthew 21:19-21, "And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away. 20 And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How did the fig tree immediately wither away? 21 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do what is done to the fig tree, but even if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea, it shall be done." (ASV)

    The cursing of the fig tree, in Matthew 21:19, is explained by the fact that the fruit of this tree appears before the leaves, and a tree so full of leaves indicated that ripe figs should be there even though it was not yet the regular season. The meaning is then, that when one has the outward show of a good character, without its fruits, he is but a hypocrite, and of no value to the kingdom of God.

    The fig tree and its fruit are well known; they were very common in Palastine, and there is mention often made of then in scripture. Our first parents clothed themselves with fig leaves, Genesis 3:7, "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves aprons." (ASV). The prophet Isaiah gave orders to apply a clump of figs to Hezekiah's boil: at 2 Kings 20:7, "And Isaiah said, Take a cake of figs, And they took and laid it on the boil, and he recovered." (ASV).

    Scientifically the fig is ficus carica. It is a somewhat strange fruit since it is actually a collection of many fruits which grow, not in a flat umbel or from a cluster of stems as many fruits do, but inside of a fleshly receptacle. The outer wall of the fig is actually a stem with a specialized shape. It forms a cavity, in some cases almost closed, in which sprout a number of tiny flowers, some male and some female. In the Smyrna fig, this cavity is almost closed at the bottom end-the end which, in apples or pears, would correspond to the blossom end. And since Smyrnas bear only female flowers, it would seem that they would be doomed to falling, infertile, from the tree each year, for lack of pollination. Which is exactly what does happen without the aid of a specialized wasp, the fig wasp, or Blastophaga psenes, which has been busy fertilizing this type of fig for many centuries in the Old world. It was not unto this was understood and the wasp was imported to this country, that Smyrna figs were successfully grown here.

    However the climate which favors the culture of fig trees is not always cogenial to the fig wasp. In this country the trees may be grown where the temperature does not go below 20 degrees for extended periods. While in its completely dormant state, the tree will sometimes even survive temperatures as low as 10 to 15 degrees, though after the buds start to swell, they will be damaged at 28 to 30 degrees. The wasps, unfortunately cannot stand this cold.

    However, the common fig, in contrast to the Smyrnas fig, produces its fruit asexually and any pollination or seed development which follows is not necessary to the production of fruit. Trees of the San Pedro group produce two crops, the first asexually and the second which must be fertilized by pollen from the caprifig. These two types of trees are recommended for home gardeners, even those who live in mild climates where the wasps can grow.

    Fig trees are rapid growing like many tropical plants. Under favorable conditions, cuttings of certain varieties may be raised to tree size and bear a crop in the first year. I believe the easiest to grow for the home gardener are the Brown Turkey, Celeste, and the Green Ischia. When I lived in Charleston, South Carolina, I had two wonderful Celeste fig trees. One grew 20 ft. high and covered one side of a not so beautiful shead.

    Besides producing a bountiful crop, fig trees, especially the Brown Turkey and the Celeste make very beautiful additions to the landscape with their large green leaves giving a tropical garden effect; however they will not grow much further north than Durham, North Carolina. If you decide to grow figs, please do NOT give them too much fertilizer, because if you do you will get plenty of leaves, but very little fruit. Also, do NOT grow on soil where cotton has ever been grown as a disease that cotton puts into the ground, cotton root rot, will kill the plant in time. Also supply sufficient water in hot dry weather, but not too much. In reality the tree does not require a lot of attention and few insects bother it extensively.

    Once more, with the need of the Smyrnas fig for its relationship with the fig wasp shows the marvels of creation and that evolutionist are in error.

    If you decide to grow figs or any of the other fruits I write about, please post your results and suggestions for all to see.

    Your Friend Iris89
     
  6. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Here is a Commentary on the Black Saporte, Diospyros Digyna, of the family Ebenaceae:

    Genesis 1:29-30 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, [I have given] every green herb for food: and it was so. (American Standard Version)

    The Black Saporte, Diospyros Digyna, is a handsome evergreen fruit tree, that produces a greenish-brown thin skined fruit that can be eaten fresh, but in my opinion is much better when used in baked goods. I know one German lady that makes the most tasteful Black Saporte brownies that taste even better than chocolate ones. I, myself, am a great cook, but unfortunately not the best baker.

    The tree can grow to about 25 feet high with a width of 25 feet. Its leaves are very glossy dark green and appear as if someone polished them, leathery, alternate, with wavy margins. Originally the tree was a native to Mexico, but has spread throughout the warm areas of the tropics. Its flowers are quite small and white, and in Florida and the Caribbean it flowers in May and June. Unfortunately, it takes about nine months for the fruit to mature. I believe the ones on my tree will be ready in March.

    The tree does not like cold and freezes at about 29 degrees F. Also the tree likes moist, well-drained soil having a pH of between 5.5 to 7.0. It likes full sun or light shade, and makes a wonderful addition to the looks of any tropical garden. This tree can not take drought conditions.

    With respect propagation, seeds germinate in about 30 days, and seedling trees will fruit in about 5 years. The tree also does NOT have any serious pest problems. There is only one known variety, the Bell. The tree is sometimes called the Chocolate Pudding Fruit as the inside edible part of the fruit resembles chocolate pudding both with respect looks and taste when fully ripe, but has jet black seeds which chocolate pudding does not have. These seeds are very hard and one must be sure never to accidentally eat one. O'h the fruit is about the size of an orange.

    Thus as can readily be seen, our heavenly Father (YHWH) has provided wonderful things of creation for our physical needs and made them also beautiful to behold.

    Special note, Let's get a good discussion on the wonderful things of Creation God (YHWH) has provided for us. I have on this thread provided an excellent start. Let's get into growing wonders and not cults and negativity. I am a positive outgoing person and like everyone to be the same.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  7. Godless Dave

    Godless Dave Member

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    OK, your first post doesn't discussion Creationsim vs. Evolution, as you claim, but belief in Creator vs. atheism. Evolution is not atheism.

    Your second post contains numerous errors, the chief one being that the majority of mutations are harmful.

    In the following posts you have abandoned discussions of science altogether.
     
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  8. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Godless DaveFIRST, I made it clear in my various post on this thread that God (YHWH) created all as opposed to some theory that maybe it all happened by chance.

    SECOND, All my follow-up post continued to show details with respect what God (YHWH) created for us. Go look at a fig tree and carefully examine a frest fig and see what a wonderful creation by God (YHWH) it is.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  9. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Here is a Commentary on Bountiful Trees and Vegetables God (YHWH) has provided for mankind, specifically the BIGNAY, Antisdesma Bunius:

    In Genesis 1:11-13, "And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit-trees bearing fruit after their kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. (American Standard Version, ASV)

    This is both a very interesting and a very rare fruit with probably less than 200 in the entire United States. It produces a small berry with a flavor and size of a small blueberry. Its growth habits vary very widely and it can be anything from a small bush to a towering tree of over 40 feet. In the Mounts Botanical Garden in West Palm Beach, just off of Military Trail, there is a towering specimen of over 40 feet that all should go look at.

    The Bignay is native to southeastern Asia, Malaya and western Australia. There is a tremendous variety with respect quality of fruit. Some being of such poor flavor as to be hardly fit for human consumption and others with excellent fruit that almost everyone would highly enjoy. The tree previously mentioned as growing in the the Mounts Botanical Garden in West Palm Beach produces some excellent fruit. [Note: the the Mounts Botanical Garden in West Palm Beach is open to the public, free of charge 6 days a week between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, and I would recommend a visit there when ever you happen to be in south Florida].

    Interestingly the fruit sets best on female trees that have not been pollinated; however, seeds from such fruit will not germinate. Propagation in the USA is done with air layers, cuttings, or graftings; I know of NO male trees in the USA.

    The fruit, although rather small, makes a good drink, excellent jellies and jams and is very rich in vitamin C. The fruit is subacid and quite flavorful and is green when not ripe and jet black when ripe, and borne is large clusters. Most Bignays are quite prolific and produce in south Florida at least two crops per year. The tree, especially in bush form, is very attractive and pleasing to look at.

    I even know of one person growing one in a heated sunroom in St. Paul, Minnesota, but I would NOT recommend it as a house plant for the north.

    Your Friend Iris89
     
  10. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    The chances of everything being just right for life are, indeed, a million to one. But given a decillion tries, the chance of not hitting a home run becomes vanishingly small.

    Find a rock in your front yard. The chance of that particular rock being in exactly that place in exactly that orientation, at exactly that time, &c, is infinitesimally minute -- Yet there it is.

    Here we are. The chance that just such a world with just such a population in just such a place and time is minute. But given near infinite time and material interactions, the chance of such a world as ours not appearing in some place, at some time is near inconcievable.
     
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  11. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Seyorni

    I do not waste time with speculations about what ifs. The Bible in the book of Genesis clearly shows what did happen as was brought out in my original post.


    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Why do you embrace the Bible, iris, and not the Koran or Tao te Ching? Have you done a critical analysis of the various religious outlooks, or did you just accept the religious tradition you were raised with?

    "Let us not speculate as we know what happened" pretty much sums up the degree of intellectual inquiry I expect from this thread.
     
  13. Godless Dave

    Godless Dave Member

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    So why title of the thread "Discourse on Creation and Evolution"? Neither of those have anything to do with evolution.
     
  14. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Seyorni



    Your question,{quote]Why do you embrace the Bible, iris, and not the Koran or Tao te Ching? Have you done a critical analysis of the various religious outlooks, or did you just accept the religious tradition you were raised with?[/quote]

    Simple it is the word of God (YHWH) and not a distorted knockoff from the word of God (YHWH) as is the Quran (Koran), nor some wise sayings of men as are the other so called holly books scuh as the Tao te Ching, etc.



    The Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.



    To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.

    For more information, go to the following:

    Civilization and the Bible

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5075



    and,



    STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5076

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  15. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Iris, your whole previous post had no good evidence at all. It was all opinion based on what others have said. There is no evidence that god divinely inspired anything, only belief that he did. It could very well be, that god did not divinely inspire any writings. Or that god does not even exist. You cannot prove it indubitably. And using the bible to prove the bibles authenticity is horrible circular reasoning and very poor logic. You believe it was inspired, ok I'm fine with that. But it is not fact.
     
  16. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Master VigilYou are in error. My previous post was not opinion, but a summarization of what is in the Bible and recorded in renown history books and encyclopedias.

    Go to the Catholic Encyclopedia under Canon of the Old Testament
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

    and,

    DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION - (DEI VERBUM)
    http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v5.html

    and,

    2 Timothy 3:16, "Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness." (American Standard Version; ASV).

    and,



    Civilization and the Bible

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5075



    and,



    STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5076

    and,

    Inspiration/Revelation: What It Is and How It Works
    http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/rev-insp.html

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  17. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

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    I think we're beating our heads against a brick wall, MasterVigil. I suspect if she'd been born in Iran she'd be defending the q'uran just as vehemently.
     
  18. Godless Dave

    Godless Dave Member

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    And none of it has anything to do with evolution.

    BTW, the Catholic Church has no problems with the theory of evolution (finally learned their lesson from the Galileo affair).
     
  19. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "My previous post was not opinion, but a summarization of what is in the Bible and recorded in renown history books and encyclopedias."

    First off, any summarization of history, be it in the bible or history books does not prove that god divinely inspired anything. Sorry, the error is yours.
     
  20. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    From some of the post it is readily apparent that some are throwing out opinions and not going to my links and reading the facts. But really 2 Timothy 3:16, "Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness." (American Standard Version; ASV). Now if some wish to be unbelievers, that is their problem, but they should bare in mind 2 Corinthians 4:4, "in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn [upon them]. " (ASV).

    Also, this thread is about God's (YHWH's) creation and the wonderful things he has created for us.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
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