Dimensions of Reality

[skydivephil]

In this instance...the belief system has been used and tested for millenia

versus a few centuries, at best, for the alternative.

To simply discount thousands of years is fine.....but to do it blindly, without thought? is rather puerile

you say its been tested, how good are those tests? were they double blinded? randomised? controls? large sample size? replicated ?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

paradoxical thought is surely another term for contradictory thought, or should I jut say wrong?

Don't sweat it. It's just a short-hand way of saying "I'm more special than you because I know something super special that you don't, but, of course, I can't actually explain it to you, but that's your fault, because you're not super special like me."

(Just smile, nod, and walk on.)

 

[Mr Cheese]

Anyone can draw a chart, I could draw a chart of my unicorn farm, doesn't make it real. Why not direct us to peer reviewed evidence for chakras?

we already have that....

thousands of years of use of such things...

but because it doesnt fit in a nice journal...
and uses the scientific method, you discount it

but that is fine...

I have already posted the parable of teaching a dog

 

[Mr Cheese]

paradoxical thought is surely another term for contradictory thought, or should I jut say wrong?

contradictory if you like

but no, there is a subtle difference

especially in this context....

It is much like the particle wave conundrum found in science

and the location and velocity paradox....

you see the fact that we can tell a location OR the velocity and NOT both is a paradox...but its not really contradictory, is it?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Don't sweat it. It's just a short-hand way of saying "I'm more special than you because I know something super special that you don't, but, of course, I can't actually explain it to you, but that's your fault, because you're not super special like me."

(Just smile, nod, and walk on.)

Oh I can explain it....

but people here dont understand....

I have already done so in other threads....

people scratched their heads and started calling me names

for example how God can be immanent and transcendant all at once....

Or how Yin is actually Yang and Yang is also Yin....



but things are not straight forward...and that really bugs people online

 

[Mindful]

In God's Holy Spirit World there are no dimensions of time and there are no borders. Space is infinite and God's holy creation has no bounds. As mortals locked into a physical world we have no comprehension of infinity, eternity, or the limitless love of our maker. We should draw ourselves as close as possible to the love of God and separate ourselves from the evil that rises all around us from the depths of hell.

 

[YmirGF]

Don't sweat it. It's just a short-hand way of saying "I'm more special than you because I know something super special that you don't, but, of course, I can't actually explain it to you, but that's your fault, because you're not super special like me."

(Just smile, nod, and walk on.)

I agree, but that is also why I told Rosje to come and stay for a week or two. I can only emphasize that these attributes are not unique to a "class" of so-called "special" people. The sad point is that there are so many charlatans in the field that it is perfectly understandable why reasonable folks remain highly doubtful. I suppose the only proviso is that if one is particularly adept at either ignoring their feelings or hiding their emotions it may take awhile to break through that self-created barrier.

 

[katiafish]

Just becuase you couldnt explain it , doesn't mean it cant be explained. It could be cold reading, hot reading,lucky guessing, or you could be feeding her information with your responses, you could be filling in meaning etc etc. There are an enomrous number of pyshcics who's clients have the same experience. Whenever they are properly tested their powers dont show up. Thast good reason to think the effect is not real. If she has this power why doesnt she apply for the Randi $1m prize?
Challenge Info

Dear friend,

The path that I am following is deeply spiritual, it is out spiritual understanding of the Oneness and of loving kindness that I want to connect to people and help them in any way I can. And if you understand what spiritual means, you must understand that things like provong myself or my ability to anyone is a little.. pointless. I have nothing to prove, simply following my path.
As far as the proof goes, perhaps the good advice in your specific situation is to sit down in a quite place for a moment and simply listen to your own breath, become aware of your body and the never ending chatting of the mind, and by queting the chatter, may be , just may be, you will hear your Self. And once you do so, it will become apparent to you that no amount of explanation or evidence can show to you what that quite voice and awareness of the Self will show you..

It is true, like Ymir has kindly noted, it is the self created barrier of the lack of awareness of the Self that is very hard to breack through, not just for me, but more importantly, for yourself. Open your mind to the posibility and who knows what you might find..

With loving kindness,

Katia

 

[skydivephil]

we already have that....

thousands of years of use of such things...

but because it doesnt fit in a nice journal...
and uses the scientific method, you discount it

but that is fine...

I have already posted the parable of teaching a dog

Well yes, if you don't use scientific , how will you avoid falling for cognitive biases?
Cognitive bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[skydivephil]

contradictory if you like

but no, there is a subtle difference

especially in this context....

It is much like the particle wave conundrum found in science

and the location and velocity paradox....

you see the fact that we can tell a location OR the velocity and NOT both is a paradox...but its not really contradictory, is it?

There are some major differences between wave particle duality in QM and the idea that consciousness is expanding and not expanding.
Firstly we have good evidence for wave particle duality , we do not have good evidence for the this expanding and not expanding notion. Furthermore this duality is only paradoxical because we are using inappropriate analogous to describe sub atomic particles. In reality these objects don't behave like macroscopic objects. But in mathematical terms the standard model accounts for the behaviour of particles very exactly, can the claim that the consciousness is expanding and not expanding claim the same?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well yes, if you don't use scientific , how will you avoid falling for cognitive biases?
Cognitive bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Falling for it? Cognitive bias is the key to "seeing" the magical world of mysticism. You can't use objective measurement to confirm the existence of things that don't objectively exist.

 

[skydivephil]

Dear friend,

The path that I am following is deeply spiritual, it is out spiritual understanding of the Oneness and of loving kindness that I want to connect to people and help them in any way I can. And if you understand what spiritual means, you must understand that things like provong myself or my ability to anyone is a little.. pointless. I have nothing to prove, simply following my path.
As far as the proof goes, perhaps the good advice in your specific situation is to sit down in a quite place for a moment and simply listen to your own breath, become aware of your body and the never ending chatting of the mind, and by queting the chatter, may be , just may be, you will hear your Self. And once you do so, it will become apparent to you that no amount of explanation or evidence can show to you what that quite voice and awareness of the Self will show you..

It is true, like Ymir has kindly noted, it is the self created barrier of the lack of awareness of the Self that is very hard to breack through, not just for me, but more importantly, for yourself. Open your mind to the posibility and who knows what you might find..

With loving kindness,

Katia

I have meditated and I practice yoga, that does not mean I have to buy into a load of mumbo jumbo. i understand you may have had a powerful experience but that doesn't mean that experience wasn't generated inside you head. Ever heard of hypnagoic myloclonic twitch? This is the sensation you are falling whilst in bed. its a powerful sensation, but that doesnt mean you really are falling:
That Strange Falling Sensation
Why do you reject evidence so much ? If you don't like evidence as a basis for confirming claims, what method of assessing the claim you are murderer would you want to use? Evidence or faith?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I have meditated and I practice yoga, that does not mean I have to buy into a load of mumbo jumbo. i understand you may have had a powerful experience but that doesn't mean that experience wasn't generated inside you head. Ever heard of hypnagoic myloclonic twitch? This is the sensation you are falling whilst in bed. its a powerful sensation, but that doesnt mean you really are falling:
That Strange Falling Sensation
Why do you reject evidence so much ? If you don't like evidence as a basis for confirming claims, what method of assessing the claim you are murderer would you want to use? Evidence or faith?

Likewise. I have practiced meditation for 15 years, and there is no compelling reason to think the various states I've experienced are anything other than natural mental states based on brain physiology, and the shifts in perspective that go along with them. Although, I can understand why some people have a tendency to perceive or interpret those states as something "mystical."

 

[katiafish]

I have meditated and I practice yoga, that does not mean I have to buy into a load of mumbo jumbo. i understand you may have had a powerful experience but that doesn't mean that experience wasn't generated inside you head. Ever heard of hypnagoic myloclonic twitch? This is the sensation you are falling whilst in bed. its a powerful sensation, but that doesnt mean you really are falling:
That Strange Falling Sensation
Why do you reject evidence so much ? If you don't like evidence as a basis for confirming claims, what method of assessing the claim you are murderer would you want to use? Evidence or faith?

*shrug* If you read my posts back not at any point I have claimed that the experience of connection is supernatural or psychic. It happens to be a part of my reality, but how can I possibly be able to give you an evidence of something so subjective. It is like love, what kind of hard evidence is there to show that one is experiencing a strong emotion of love? You just know it, you feel it and dont stop to analyze if it is objective or subjective or just your wild imagination.

I have my theories why what I do work or how it works, but those theories ultimately work only for me, because they are just as subjective as the experience itself. I told you my theory of Unity and how the creative circle of expression works, what else exactly can i tell you? That when I look at someone I can see the colors of their chakras? Or the incredible surge of energy that goes through me when i am healing? Or the overwhelming glow of my own heart chakra when it is emanating kindness? I dont know what evidence I can give you, for I have none...

:rainbow1:

 

[DonSinger]

Our realities must intertwine at some point, however lax ot strict they might be. For if someone had broke into your house and stole your valuables, what would your conclusion be? That an invisible entity took them? The fact remains that if they were not at your house, they were with the person that stole them. I do believe our realities are not quite as we percieve them though. I would think that happiness and positive thinking would assist in bringing postitive things your way. Same as smiling at someone and having a smile returned. Just on a bigger scale. It would also go the other way into negative thinking. Who knows. it may just be how we SEE it. or it may be a higher US(we are all things, and are one, we just dont realize it yet<adds a little spice that it would be this way>) working with ourselves to bring about positive things BECAUSE we see things in a positive way.

 

[DonSinger]

As for Chakras and other things, it is all in your head. Its all about how you percieve it. If you believe it and you see or feel it for yourself, then it is there regardless of whether our "scientific experiments" can detect it yet or not. I would say our science is still mostly based in trial and error. when do we get to the point when we actually start knowing things?

 

[skydivephil]

*shrug* If you read my posts back not at any point I have claimed that the experience of connection is supernatural or psychic. It happens to be a part of my reality, but how can I possibly be able to give you an evidence of something so subjective. It is like love, what kind of hard evidence is there to show that one is experiencing a strong emotion of love? You just know it, you feel it and dont stop to analyze if it is objective or subjective or just your wild imagination.

I have my theories why what I do work or how it works, but those theories ultimately work only for me, because they are just as subjective as the experience itself. I told you my theory of Unity and how the creative circle of expression works, what else exactly can i tell you? That when I look at someone I can see the colors of their chakras? Or the incredible surge of energy that goes through me when i am healing? Or the overwhelming glow of my own heart chakra when it is emanating kindness? I dont know what evidence I can give you, for I have none...

:rainbow1:

I have no problem with your own subjective experience and if you left it at that I would have nothing to say. But you don't, you make claims that refer to things outside of that. for example you claim matter doesn't exist,it does you claim entanglement backs up your view of interconnectedness, it doesn't. You claim you heal, where is the evidence?

 

[skydivephil]

As for Chakras and other things, it is all in your head. Its all about how you percieve it. If you believe it and you see or feel it for yourself, then it is there regardless of whether our "scientific experiments" can detect it yet or not. I would say our science is still mostly based in trial and error. when do we get to the point when we actually start knowing things?

We know a lot, there's a lot we don't know too. but I think its amazing how much science has enabled us to know about the universe and our place in it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Mr. Cheese,

some would argue expandign concsciousness is remainaing exactly where we are....

Really a *cheesy moment* except wish to add the word *DYNAMICALLY* or better still *CONSCIOUSLY* i.e. Remaining CONSCIOUS. Once one is conscious it never goes away.
A story to that effect:
Once a doctor set up a practice in a village to serve the people. He found the barber was a busy man not only cutting hair but also cutting *boils* which is a common affliction in tropical climate. The doctor finding his patients going to the barber next door simply on the next available opportunity called the barber to his chamber and asked him if he knew anatomy. The barber expressing his ignorance on the subject allowed the doctor to educate the barber on the human anatomy.
The barber left an enlightened person but next day when a patient with boil came to him to be cut, started *thinking* that this place has so and so nerves or veins/arteries etc. He could no more cut those boils. The doctor started getting his patients and the barber enlightenment.

there are also a lot of naughty tricksters and charletons that exploit people by tapping into these things and essentially selling vapid garbage...

kabblah water, $20 a pop blessed water...for example
pieces of the one true cross

Again the question is one of consciousness. Those who are conscious will only buy what he needs and if not keeps getting duped like those who believe someone that *god* is only for them. i.e. They have an exclusive rights over religion and it is bought by millions why?

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend atotalstranger,

The complexity of our minds creates all sorts of experiences and phenomena which people do not understand, and therefore many attribute to something greater, mystical, or outside themselves. Just as early men saw magic in the world around them due to ignorance of how things worked, modern man attributes all sorts of mystical things to the mind due to ignorance of how the mind works. In time, as the secrets of the mind are unlocked, this mysticism will be replaced with understanding, just as Zeus was replaced with an understanding of atmospheric electrical discharge.

EXACTLY!

Love & rgds