Difficulties when it comes to Polytheism and me.

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

I have come to discover that I rather like polytheism. Well at least certain gods from certain pantheons. The issue I personally have is actually believing in or doing anything with these gods when I can think of no rational arguments for said gods actually being a thing.



It seems to me intellectually dishonest on some level to have rejected christianity, islam, judaism and various other faiths because of rational arguments to then turn around and give several gods my adoration. To reject the larger major religions of the world in favor of these gods because I like them doesn’t seem like a very rationally sound thing to do.



Of course whenever I ask around about this I usually get the whole “experience” thing. People had an experience that lead them to believe X,Y,Z which is great and all but that doesn’t really help. I can not say that just because I think I have some sort of vision where I see Athena or Thor or what not that they are actually there. It’s not hard to see how these could be manifestations of your own conscious.



I’ve certainly had feelings during certain religious activity, buddhist mediation, taoist mediation, prayers to certain gods ect. If I try to come up with a good argument for this being something more than a feeling I can’t really come up with any reason to take it very seriously.



It just seems to me that some of us can never be spirituality satisfied cause rational arguments always like to get in the way.

 

[jonathan180iq]

The gods themselves aren't real - they're just the dialogue we use to communicate a common interest or part of the human experience. Being able to relate to mythological stories should show you that you're just as human as all the other humans before you. It's a neat thing when you approach it for what it is and not expect more from it.

Religious literalism runs into such mental roadblocks because it's a conundrum. It's expecting something that was never meant to be part of it.

All of the experiences you have had while practicing different religions come from the same source - you. So you can make those things as "real" as you like - so long as you remember their origin.

I love reading the classic epics because they create shareable stories and allow for a collective experience of life, similar to talking to your friends about all the different facets of your favorite movie. But it would be a bit silly to get into arguments about whether or not Rambo actually killed all those people in the woods, wouldn't it? It would be a bit silly to build temples to John Rambo, or to develop certain physical activies which you claimed better connected you to the essence of the Rambo Path, don't you think?

Characters like Rambo, and mythological stories of the Gods, are archetypes through which we refine our understanding of what it's like to be human. There's nothing wrong with embracing it, unless you start blending the two where they don't belong.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What "rational arguments" cause you to have problems with it?

 

[sayak83]

I have come to discover that I rather like polytheism. Well at least certain gods from certain pantheons. The issue I personally have is actually believing in or doing anything with these gods when I can think of no rational arguments for said gods actually being a thing.



It seems to me intellectually dishonest on some level to have rejected christianity, islam, judaism and various other faiths because of rational arguments to then turn around and give several gods my adoration. To reject the larger major religions of the world in favor of these gods because I like them doesn’t seem like a very rationally sound thing to do.



Of course whenever I ask around about this I usually get the whole “experience” thing. People had an experience that lead them to believe X,Y,Z which is great and all but that doesn’t really help. I can not say that just because I think I have some sort of vision where I see Athena or Thor or what not that they are actually there. It’s not hard to see how these could be manifestations of your own conscious.



I’ve certainly had feelings during certain religious activity, buddhist mediation, taoist mediation, prayers to certain gods ect. If I try to come up with a good argument for this being something more than a feeling I can’t really come up with any reason to take it very seriously.



It just seems to me that some of us can never be spirituality satisfied cause rational arguments always like to get in the way.

One is aware of the content of consciousness directly while one can only indirectly infer the content of the external world through the mediation of the senses. Both are subject to possibility of illusions as well. So assuming that some god(s) do exist, why would they manifest indirectly to people through representations in the external world rather than directly in your consciousness content.? Further a public manifestation will disrupt the course of nature, will be viewed by multiple people with varying mindsets and hence will affect each person differently initiating a cascade of cause and effect that can span millenia. Unless there is a severe emergency that requires urgent intervention for public good, why would any God go for that route.? It violates the principle of sufficient reason.

Do you prefer privacy for intimate interactions with people you love or do you prefer a marketplace.? If one is going for a personal interaction with God(s) and not for the abstract structure (Logos, Maat, Brahman) what you are asking for is a one-one date in the hopes of constructing an abiding love. You are surprised that the setting for such an encounter is the directly cognizable and fully private realm of your consciousness.?

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

The gods themselves aren't real - they're just the dialogue we use to communicate a common interest or part of the human experience. Being able to relate to mythological stories should show you that you're just as human as all the other humans before you. It's a neat thing when you approach it for what it is and not expect more from it.

Religious literalism runs into such mental roadblocks because it's a conundrum. It's expecting something that was never meant to be part of it.

All of the experiences you have had while practicing different religions come from the same source - you. So you can make those things as "real" as you like - so long as you remember their origin.

I love reading the classic epics because they create shareable stories and allow for a collective experience of life, similar to talking to your friends about all the different facets of your favorite movie. But it would be a bit silly to get into arguments about whether or not Rambo actually killed all those people in the woods, wouldn't it? It would be a bit silly to build temples to John Rambo, or to develop certain physical activies which you claimed better connected you to the essence of the Rambo Path, don't you think?

Characters like Rambo, and mythological stories of the Gods, are archetypes through which we refine our understanding of what it's like to be human. There's nothing wrong with embracing it, unless you start blending the two where they don't belong.

So it's pointless. Got it.

 

[jonathan180iq]

So it's pointless. Got it.

Not at all what I said.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

What "rational arguments" cause you to have problems with it?

I have not seen any evidence to make the polytheistic gods any more real than the monotheistic one.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Not at all what I said.

I know that isn't what you actually said but that is what I inferred from it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have not seen any evidence to make the polytheistic gods any more real than the monotheistic one.

What kind of evidence are you looking for?

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

What kind of evidence are you looking for?

Any that would qualify as evidence for any of the gods.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have not seen any evidence to make the polytheistic gods any more real than the monotheistic one.

Why compare monotheism to polytheism? Monotheism isnt defined by christianity and the abrahamic faiths no more than all polytheist believe that literal gods exist.

The gods themselves aren't real - they're just the dialogue we use to communicate a common interest or part of the human experience.

Lorgar,

Since gods define our experiences-a common word to conversate about spiritual topics in the western world-maybe identify if you see the world as one unit or multiple units put together.

Do you see truth as many or as one? Even take out that abrahamic concept of needing to define god as something Greater. Maybe define god(s) as equal to yourself.

Mythology are stories not facts (in my opinion). There are a lot of life lessons and ways to love through the morals of different stories about the god(s).

Polytheism to me is like democracy. Monotheism is like communism. Would you like to work together or work for someone?

Add up your experiences and write down your morals. Maybe you just dont use the word god to define your experiences. Not many of us do. We are a rare breed but a lot of us are out there polytheist and all.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Why compare monotheism to polytheism? Monotheism isnt defined by christianity and the abrahamic faiths no more than all polytheist believe that literal gods exist.



Lorgar,

Since gods define our experiences-a common word to conversate about spiritual topics in the western world-maybe identify if you see the world as one unit or multiple units put together.

Do you see truth as many or as one? Even take out that abrahamic concept of needing to define god as something Greater. Maybe define god(s) as equal to yourself.

Mythology are stories not facts (in my opinion). There are a lot of life lessons and ways to love through the morals of different stories about the god(s).

Polytheism to me is like democracy. Monotheism is like communism. Would you like to work together or work for someone?

Add up your experiences and write down your morals. Maybe you just dont use the word god to define your experiences. Not many of us do. We are a rare breed but a lot of us are out there polytheist and all.

I don't really care about morality all that much. AT least I can't identify any morals I find particular true all around. If they are just stories then I feel rather weird using them to communicate anything I can't say I relate to many of them. I don't care about common humanity.

That is at least part of the reason why if they are just stories used to communicate ideas I find the whole exercise pointless at least for me.

 

[outlawState]

Gods and muses can be seen as philosophical devices that incorporate different branches of human knowledge and activity. They may have a vague connection to the wisdom literature in the bible, yet they don't really relate to anything in the natue of God's plan as revealed by dvine revelation in the biblical tradition. Philosophy is a never ending and completely unfulfilling quest for something that can never be obtained. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense to prefer philosophy and reject religion, because philosophy unless it is directed to morality, which much of it isn't, only puffs one up with a vain sense of superior knowledge (says the bible).

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Gods and muses can be seen as philosophical devices that incorporate different branches of human knowledge and activity. They may have a vague connection to the wisdom literature in the bible, yet they don't really relate to anything in the natue of God's plan as revealed by dvine revelation in the biblical tradition. Philosophy is a never ending and completely unfulfilling quest for something that can never be obtained. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense to prefer philosophy and reject religion, because philosophy unless it is directed to morality, which much of it isn't, only puffs one up with a vain sense of superior knowledge (says the bible).

Which is big part of the reason I said johnathans post boiled down to it's pointless. Philosophy is good for starting arguments and making yourself feel like some intellectual not much past that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Any that would qualify as evidence for any of the gods.

Can you experience them or perceive them?

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Can you experience them or perceive them?

Personally no. I've not had any experience like that nor can I say I would really call the experiences others have had enough of a reason to believe in them.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

I have come to discover that I rather like polytheism. Well at least certain gods from certain pantheons. The issue I personally have is actually believing in or doing anything with these gods when I can think of no rational arguments for said gods actually being a thing.



It seems to me intellectually dishonest on some level to have rejected christianity, islam, judaism and various other faiths because of rational arguments to then turn around and give several gods my adoration. To reject the larger major religions of the world in favor of these gods because I like them doesn’t seem like a very rationally sound thing to do.



Of course whenever I ask around about this I usually get the whole “experience” thing. People had an experience that lead them to believe X,Y,Z which is great and all but that doesn’t really help. I can not say that just because I think I have some sort of vision where I see Athena or Thor or what not that they are actually there. It’s not hard to see how these could be manifestations of your own conscious.



I’ve certainly had feelings during certain religious activity, buddhist mediation, taoist mediation, prayers to certain gods ect. If I try to come up with a good argument for this being something more than a feeling I can’t really come up with any reason to take it very seriously.



It just seems to me that some of us can never be spirituality satisfied cause rational arguments always like to get in the way.

This is why I went away from Wicca.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

This is why I went away from Wicca.

The thing that annoys me is that at one point I had a bit of hope in the whole paganism thing. I am a spiritual person or I at least feel the pull of spirituality very strongly but I've not really been able to justify any spirituality on a rational level. Sure Jesus may sound nice but when I look at the evidence I find it neigh impossible to believe he was divine and his mere existence is in question for me.

You could maybe say the gods are abstract concepts that our ancestors simply added stories too based on their experience but of course there is no real evidence to back up the gods being anything other than imaginary. It's the same thing when people say they have experiences and that is why they believe. It's not really a very good reason to actually accept these gods exist.

If they are just mere constructs we can use to communicate ideas then I have to admit I instantly loose all interest in the concept and find them pretty pointless. Maybe it's just because I don't value humanity as a whole very highly but the idea of using these silly stories to communicate something that you could just use reality or you know.. Your own big boy/girl words to communicate sounds masturbatory at best.

I'm not even saying it's not possible that these spiritual experiences mean something but what is more likely. That you believe something and were looking hard enough that something appeared or that the gods actually singled you out for some sort of revelation?

Maybe this goddess I like so much named Athena is actually out there but thus far she hasn't given me any real reason to believe in her.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I have come to discover that I rather like polytheism. Well at least certain gods from certain pantheons. The issue I personally have is actually believing in or doing anything with these gods when I can think of no rational arguments for said gods actually being a thing.



It seems to me intellectually dishonest on some level to have rejected christianity, islam, judaism and various other faiths because of rational arguments to then turn around and give several gods my adoration. To reject the larger major religions of the world in favor of these gods because I like them doesn’t seem like a very rationally sound thing to do.



Of course whenever I ask around about this I usually get the whole “experience” thing. People had an experience that lead them to believe X,Y,Z which is great and all but that doesn’t really help. I can not say that just because I think I have some sort of vision where I see Athena or Thor or what not that they are actually there. It’s not hard to see how these could be manifestations of your own conscious.



I’ve certainly had feelings during certain religious activity, buddhist mediation, taoist mediation, prayers to certain gods ect. If I try to come up with a good argument for this being something more than a feeling I can’t really come up with any reason to take it very seriously.



It just seems to me that some of us can never be spirituality satisfied cause rational arguments always like to get in the way.

Experience is part of belief. And experience won't always be rational. Emotions and desire makes us complex beings. We turn to rationality only to fall to our knees at emotion. I used to think that ignoring emotion made me strong, because I refused to give in to emotion. After some very emotionally and mentally damaging experiences (the nature of which I would rather omit for now) I realized that recognizing emotion first was actually stronger. I am not implying that you don't recognize emotion, but when it comes to religion and belief, it's going to be emotional, and that's important to take into consideration.

If you feel there is not one omnipotent God, but various gods of specific deeds, you start with the feeling. If you must be rational to justify that, it is best to justify it on terms with the emotions you feel. Do you feel these gods are connected to you because they represent something important to you? Do they literally or symbolically exist? If it is literal, are they your personal guide or your spiritual partner? If it is symbolic, how do you see them in yourself? Many people will see many gods in various ways, and there isn't a wrong answer, regardless of who will disagree. In fact the questions I just presented include various ways of how various peoples past and present view their pantheons and personal gods. In the Egyptian pantheon, many people current and ancient see the gods as aspects of human nature. It's rational to believe in if you can't be a spiritualist. Symbolism can be such a powerful thing on many levels.

It takes courage to reject mainstream/major religions, and it will feel a little strange at first, or during the way out. But it's worth it once you find where home is.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Experience is part of belief. And experience won't always be rational. Emotions and desire makes us complex beings. We turn to rationality only to fall to our knees at emotion. I used to think that ignoring emotion made me strong, because I refused to give in to emotion. After some very emotionally and mentally damaging experiences (the nature of which I would rather omit for now) I realized that recognizing emotion first was actually stronger. I am not implying that you don't recognize emotion, but when it comes to religion and belief, it's going to be emotional, and that's important to take into consideration.

If you feel there is not one omnipotent God, but various gods of specific deeds, you start with the feeling. If you must be rational to justify that, it is best to justify it on terms with the emotions you feel. Do you feel these gods are connected to you because they represent something important to you? Do they literally or symbolically exist? If it is literal, are they your personal guide or your spiritual partner? If it is symbolic, how do you see them in yourself? Many people will see many gods in various ways, and there isn't a wrong answer, regardless of who will disagree. In fact the questions I just presented include various ways of how various peoples past and present view their pantheons and personal gods. In the Egyptian pantheon, many people current and ancient see the gods as aspects of human nature. It's rational to believe in if you can't be a spiritualist. Symbolism can be such a powerful thing on many levels.

It takes courage to reject mainstream/major religions, and it will feel a little strange at first, or during the way out. But it's worth it once you find where home is.

Scratch the previous reply because i'm not really that worried about it. I decided what I wanted to say more was the idea of symbolism seems downright silly to me. AT least in this context. If the gods don't actually exist I see no reason to even pay attention to them as symbols. What good old fashion language doesn't work? We have to elaborate ideas with a **** ton of symbolism now?

This kind of reply annoys me greatly because I don't see a point to saying they are symbolic. Granted lately and at times in the past I start to wonder what is the point of even discussing any of this. I'm almost certain i'll never be satisfied spiritually and this search will just go on and on and on and on and on without end. Making me think even trying is kind of pointless.

I also don't think it is brave or at least not where I am to be non religious or not mainstream. I'm pretty sure there is no actual home that will ever feel like home. But this is me just kind of venting frustration at this point.