Did Paul and Jesus say you could Crossdress?

[Pegg]

I think I see what you are getting at (FYI I disagree but then again I am not a christian anymore). It's not about the clothing for sure but whether people are acting in "accordance" with their gender. IE is this man or woman sleeping with the opposite sex, are they acting in a way suitable for their gender etc etc etc. Basically is this man acting like a man or a woman?

thats it.

 

[Shermana]

On a similar note, you'd be allowed to eat dead human corpses (who died of natural causes at least) if you go by "principle as opposed to law". There is nothing in principle about not eating perfectly good human flesh especially with all your interpretations that nothing is unclean and that it doesn't go in your mouth, now is there.

Why let all those dead bodies go to waste? That would be murder by principle, think of all the starving children who could be fed by a single obese carcass!

I definitely could make a whole thread on this one.

 

[Pegg]

On a similar note, you'd be allowed to eat dead human corpses (who died of natural causes at least) if you go by "principle as opposed to law". There is nothing in principle about not eating perfectly good human flesh especially with all your interpretations that nothing is unclean and that it doesn't go in your mouth, now is there.

well, if we live by the principle that all mankind created in 'Gods' image, would it be acceptable to eat someone knowing that they are a reflection of God himself? He put his qualities into us, therefore would we dignify those qualities if we 'ate' someone who possesed those qualities?

Or what of the universal truth that we are all from the same 2 parents? That makes us all 1 human family. Would you eat your family members? by principle i would think it would be very repulsive to eat someone you love, right?


Besides, if mankind were never meant to die, then there would never be any dead humans to eat.

 

[Shermana]

acceptable to eat someone knowing that they are a reflection of God himself?

Ask the Catholics. I think they actually have that whole thing right.

Now with your statement, are you agreeing with me and the Mormons and perhaps a few others that God actually has a physical body of which we are made in its "likeness" (i.e. physical shape and mold as the term is otherwise always ever used)?

What if we were from a culture where it's an absolute honor to be consumed by your family members upon your death?

I don't think its mankind that's never meant to die, but only specific humans themselves, a tiny select few.

 

[Pegg]

Ask the Catholics. I think they actually have that whole thing right.

Now with your statement, are you agreeing with me and the Mormons and perhaps a few others that God actually has a physical body of which we are made in its "likeness" (i.e. physical shape and mold as the term is otherwise always ever used)?

the bible doesnt say that God has a physical body... it says he is a 'spirit'

a spirit is like wind. without form.


So that scripture cannot be refering to any 'physical' traits. You have a physical body, but your cant say that your feelings and emotions are physical things....they are metaphysical. For example, you cannot place a piece of your emotion on the table and say, here is my angry emotion and here is my sad emotion or here is my sense of justice.

Those qualities we possess are the reflection of Gods image.

 

[Shermana]

Right, and all the parts where he appears as an actual being with human body parts to various prophets is just metaphorical language. You know Pegg, I'd think you would REALLY like the Talmud, especially with how much you like the idea of "Principle".

And even then, your point even further demonstrates why your logic should entail that eating human meat is perfectly acceptable!

 

[Pegg]

Right, and all the parts where he appears as an actual being with human body parts to various prophets is just metaphorical language. You know Pegg, I'd think you would REALLY like the Talmud, especially with how much you like the idea of "Principle".

And even then, your point even further demonstrates why your logic should entail that eating human meat is perfectly acceptable!

if you have to have a law telling you that it is wrong to eat human flesh, then i feel very sorry for you.

 

[Shermana]

if you have to have a law telling you that it is wrong to eat human flesh, then i feel very sorry for you.

If you feel you get to decide what laws are in place and what aren't and resort to this as your excuse to justify your arbitrary positions, I feel sorry for you.

"You need something in the text to believe it's what God wants? I feel sorry for you".

Meanwhile, I believe you said something similarly that unless its in the NT, it doesn't still apply or something, right? Or was that someone else.

I feel sorry for the Egyptian Monarchs who didn't know it was wrong to marry their sisters, but nowhere is this prohibited in the NT.

Using your "principle" argument, I could go ahead and say, as I've said, that you are encouraging unneeded deaths by not supporting the idea of supplying fresh human carcasses to starving children.

 

[Pegg]

If you feel you get to decide what laws are in place and what aren't and resort to this as your excuse to justify your arbitrary positions, I feel sorry for you.

"You need something in the text to believe it's what God wants? I feel sorry for you".

Meanwhile, I believe you said something similarly that unless its in the NT, it doesn't still apply or something, right? Or was that someone else.

I feel sorry for the Egyptian Monarchs who didn't know it was wrong to marry their sisters, but nowhere is this prohibited in the NT.

Using your "principle" argument, I could go ahead and say, as I've said, that you are encouraging unneeded deaths by not supporting the idea of supplying fresh human carcasses to starving children.

Cain married one of his sisters. We read nothing about God created a 2nd human couple so that cain could marry one of their daughters.

He married one of his sisters. And Adam was married to a woman created from his own flesh.

Do you think that it constitutes 'sin'?

 

[Katzpur]

the bible doesnt say that God has a physical body... it says he is a 'spirit'

You're a spirit, too, Pegg. Each of us is. As a matter of fact, I've frequently heard JWs correct people who say, "Human beings have a spirit." They respond by saying, "No, we don't have a spirit; we are a spirit."

a spirit is like wind. without form.

But it can reside within a physical body, as ours clearly do, and as Jesus Christ's did. I'm not even convinced that a spirit is "like wind." When Christ's Apostles first saw Him after His resurrection, they thought they'd seen a spirit. Does that mean that they thought they'd seen the wind, or something invisible like the wind?

 

[Katzpur]

What does Genesis say that God clothed Adam in? "long garments' which in our language is actually a 'dress'. God didnt dress Adam in long pants and a jacket.

Actually, a garment is neither a "dress" nor "long pants and a jacket." A garment is "an article of clothing."

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Hey, "Butch Trannies" are definitely not "Effeminate" now are they!

I really wouldn't know. But by definition, butch anything wouldn't be effeminate, so I suppose so. I'm just trying to think what the greek would be- andrike androgyne?

 

[Pegg]

You're a spirit, too, Pegg. Each of us is. As a matter of fact, I've frequently heard JWs correct people who say, "Human beings have a spirit." They respond by saying, "No, we don't have a spirit; we are a spirit."

no, we say we are a 'soul'

We have 'spirit'... we dont have 'a' spirit because 'spirit' in the human context is our lifeforce, its not an individual entity.

When God created the first human soul (Adam), he was lifeless until God breathed 'spirit' into him....then the man 'came to be a living soul'

so the soul and spirit are two different things. The soul is the body of flesh. The spirit is the lifeforce which brings the flesh to life.

But it can reside within a physical body, as ours clearly do, and as Jesus Christ's did. I'm not even convinced that a spirit is "like wind." When Christ's Apostles first saw Him after His resurrection, they thought they'd seen a spirit. Does that mean that they thought they'd seen the wind, or something invisible like the wind?

based on what the original words mean, we'd have to say that spirit means 'wind' or 'breath'

but this depends on the context of what we are talking about. Spirit can also refer to God. It can also refer to the angels who are living spirit persons who can appear and disappear at will. If they are disappearing, its because they are not in a physical body.

 

[Shermana]

Cain married one of his sisters. We read nothing about God created a 2nd human couple so that cain could marry one of their daughters.

He married one of his sisters. And Adam was married to a woman created from his own flesh.

Do you think that it constitutes 'sin'?

Without getting into my belief that the man and woman (men and women) created in Genesis 1:26 is not the same as the one created specifically for the Special Garden...let's get one thing established.

You are saying that incestual marriage is not a sin and that "Sound mind" does not disclude it from being done, is that correct?

Let's take it even further, how about father-daughter, is that cool too now in your book?

 

[Pegg]

Without getting into my belief that the man and woman (men and women) created in Genesis 1:26 is not the same as the one created specifically for the Special Garden...let's get one thing established.

You are saying that incestual marriage is not a sin and that "Sound mind" does not disclude it from being done, is that correct?

Let's take it even further, how about father-daughter, is that cool too now in your book?

lol,

the principle of Gods law cannot mean it is a sin to marry ones sister because he made humans and he created only 2 to start with.

Did God sin against himself by creating mankind this way, with full knowledge that the first sons and daughters would be required to marry each other?

Is that what you think?

 

[Shermana]

Ummm, so you are in fact saying that Christians can in fact marry their sisters, that Fathers can marry their daughters, and it's fine and dandy without any sinfulness involved.

Well, that's that then.

 

[Shermana]

Hey wait a minute, I forgot, I don't remember seeing anything about carnal relations with animals in Paul's writings either..........

 

[Pegg]

Hey wait a minute, I forgot, I don't remember seeing anything about carnal relations with animals in Paul's writings either..........

the principle of 'kinds with kinds' would cover that.

 

[Shermana]

I guess the principle of "And he rested on the 7th day" means everyone else should do the same too.

So one more time, for confirmation, you are saying that it's perfectly fine for Christians to do like (in your view of the events) as Cain did with his sister?

 

[Katzpur]

no, we say we are a 'soul'

Oh yeah, right. Sorry for the mistake.

so the soul and spirit are two different things. The soul is the body of flesh. The spirit is the lifeforce which brings the flesh to life.

Well, I partly agree and and partly disagree. I'd say the spirit is the lifeforce which gives life to the physical body. I wouldn't say "the soul is the body of flesh," though. You can have a "body of flesh" without it being a soul. It's just a body -- a dead body. But a body wherein a spirit resides is "a living soul."

based on what the original words mean, we'd have to say that spirit means 'wind' or 'breath'

I agree. I'd add "life" to that list. Wind, breath, life.

but this depends on the context of what we are talking about. Spirit can also refer to God.

Here's where you're losing me. God is spirit, yes. But God is far more than just spirit. He is described as spirit meaning that He is life, the source of all life. That doesn't mean that the words "God" and "spirit" are in any way synonomous or that they can be used interchangeably.

(Not sure how any of this has to do with cross-dressing. Maybe this discussion would best be left for another thread.)