Did King David have red hair????

[Nehustan]

I recall some years ago I was hanging out with a couple of Israeli girls. One was Ashkanasim the other an Arab Jew originally from Yemen. We got to speaking about King David and the Ashkanasim went to great length to tell me that KIng David was light skinned with Red Hair. I recall making the Yemeni laugh when I suggested maybe he used Henna. My point to the thread is really about the specific issue and if anyone knew any traditions about KIng David.

Here's a wiki link to show what I mean....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair

Myths and stories related to red hair

The Biblical mark of Cain is thought by some to have been red hair. Esau's entire body is supposed to have been covered with red hair. Also Judas Iscariot is sometimes supposed to have been redheaded. King David is also known for having red hair.

(by the way I know the topic reads 'read hair' I am an idiot....sue me!!)

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, some would say that is Aryon nation angle someone spoke of on another site here , but what does the scriptures say? i can only think of Esau being mentioned i could be mistaken.

 

[Nehustan]

Yep actually Alexander that was what lead me to start this thread...well that and the conversation with the two Israelis.

 

[Judgement Day]

I recall some years ago I was hanging out with a couple of Israeli girls. One was Ashkanasim the other an Arab Jew originally from Yemen. We got to speaking about King David and the Ashkanasim went to great length to tell me that KIng David was light skinned with Red Hair. I recall making the Yemeni laugh when I suggested maybe he used Henna. My point to the thread is really about the specific issue and if anyone knew any traditions about KIng David.

Here's a wiki link to show what I mean....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair

Myths and stories related to red hair

The Biblical mark of Cain is thought by some to have been red hair. Esau's entire body is supposed to have been covered with red hair. Also Judas Iscariot is sometimes supposed to have been redheaded. King David is also known for having red hair.

According to a hadith by Tirmidhi, Muhammad (pbuh) also had red hair but it was arguable. Some say he dyed his hair, and others dont agree saying that before a hair turns white, it becomes naturally red first:

Abu Rimtha Taymi R.A. says: "I went with my son to Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam). (Probably he had not see Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) before). When
I saw him I said to myself immediately, 'This is the true Messenger of Allah'. At that time Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) was wearing two pieces of green clothing. (His lungi -sarong,waist-wrap- and shawl were both green). On a few hairs there were signs of old age, but those hair were red".

Commentary
The signs of dignity, 'Anwaar-e- Nubuwwah'(prophetic illumination) and 'Aathari-Haybah' (signs of awe) were thus seen on the blessed face of Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam).
When one sees these signs, such words naturally come to one's tongue: "There is no doubt he is Allah's Messenger and cannot be false." The ahaadith state that many Sahabah R.A. uttered such words when they first met Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam). The above Hadith also states that the hair of Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) was red. The ulama disagreewhether Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) dyed his hair or not. Some are of the opinion that Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) dyed his hair and they base their argument on the red hair. Others deny this and say that before the hair becomes white, it usually turns red. The redness was natural, and not that of a dye.

Maybe King David's red hair was also because of aging?

 

[dawny0826]

Dark hair isn't reddened but so much with henna, which I'm assuming is what they used during David's time. And I'm assuming that if he wasn't born red headed and fair skinned, he was born with dark hair.

If King David dyed his hair red with henna or a henna like substance...he would, naturally have to posess a natural hair color within the light to medium range for henna to really do it's thing. It adds a nice sheen and red highlights to dark hair but not enough to warrant a redhead label.

I'd be interested in learning about all that was used for hair coloring during that time frame.

I know I'm only rambling and am not contributing...I just find this is interesting.

 

[Nehustan]

No dawny...that was exactly what I said to the two girls. To draw on JD's point. If David's Hair had greyed, then it may have been red due to Henna. It is very common today for older men to dye their hair with Henna. Maybe it was the same then. Either that or he had Northumbrian ancestors...which of course I am not ruling out:sarcastic

 

[dawny0826]

No dawny...that was exactly what I said to the two girls. To draw on JD's point. If David's Hair had greyed, then it may have been red due to Henna. It is very common today for older men to dye their hair with Henna. Maybe it was the same then. Either that or he had Northumbrian ancestors...which of course I am not ruling out:sarcastic

Henna only coats the hair. And grey hair is typically so resistant to color...especially coarse grey hair...if these men were able to achieve true red hair using henna...I would love to know how they managed it. It's fascinating to me.

(Coming from a red head who went to cosmetology school. Henna is wonderful. I have a box in my bedroom but it takes a little work to get the right shade. I would love to be a fly on a wall back in the time of David...to see how these guys managed.)

 

[Judgement Day]

To draw on JD's point. If David's Hair had greyed, then it may have been red due to Henna. It is very common today for older men to dye their hair with Henna. Maybe it was the same then. Either that or he had Northumbrian ancestors...which of course I am not ruling out:sarcastic

No, I was saying that red hair naturally occurs before turning to grey.

 

[Nehustan]

But you must have seen people with dyed beards etc.

 

[Judgement Day]

Well according to these 2 sites, King David was red headed indeed:

http://www.redandproud.com/famous redheads red royals.htm

http://www.aish.com/torahportion/moray/Esau.asp (scroll down to the red head section)

 

[jewscout]

i always smile when i think of David HaMelech, King David, having red hair
i'm like "David was irish":biglaugh:

for some reason that just tickles me to no end.

 

[Nehustan]

Well I doubt he was Irish, tho' it is quite possible that some of his ancestors may have had roots here, tho' more likely from what is now known as the 'borderlands' of Scotland, by way of Cornwal, lots of Tin there don't you know. Like I've said quite often here on RF....Zabulon. It wasn't just Jesus' disciples that liked boats.

 

[jamaesi]

Actually it's the Scots that had red hair, not the Irish.

 

[ChrisP]

Jamaesi : Scots are (mostly) descended from the 5 brothers of an Irish Chieftan who sent them into northern britainnia to ensure the Romans could not conquer the whole thing and thence turn their attentions to Ireland.

A red Headed David? Yeah I met him, he's my brother... :biglaugh: but seriously, it's possible. As for it being the "Mark of Cain", my little bro is decidely evil so I'm going to have to agree.

From Wiki:

"The biochemistry of red hair, discovered only in 1997, appears to be associated with the melanocortin-1 receptor while the red color itself is produced by an iron compound. The MC1R recessive gene which gives people red hair, fair skin and light eyes is also associated with freckles, though it is not uncommon to see a redhead without freckles. 80% of redheads have a MC1R gene variant [5], and the prevalence of these alleles is highest in Scotland and Ireland. MC1R is found on chromosome 16."

 

[jamaesi]

Jamaesi : Scots are (mostly) descended from the 5 brothers of an Irish Chieftan who sent them into northern britainnia to ensure the Romans could not conquer the whole thing and thence turn their attentions to Ireland.

I'm having trouble believing that because there's been people in Scotland since before the bronze ages.


Also from that article.

Scotland has the highest proportion of red-heads of any country worldwide with 13% of the population having naturally red hair. A further 40% of Scots carry the MC1R variant gene which results in red hair. The Picts, "tribes that Mediterranean classical-era writers placed in Caledonia (Scotland)" [1], were recorded as red haired. Ireland has the second highest population of naturally red-headed people in the world, amounting to 10% of its inhabitants, though it is a misconception that most Celts were red headed. [2] Viking invaders, who later founded Dublin [3], were also known for having red hair. [4]

The red headness comes from the Scots immigrating to Ireland. : P I'm a little Scot-Irish (Stewart/Stuart Clan) and my hair is a dark brown with a red shine, it looks copper in bright sunlight.

 

[Nehustan]

As I posted about the new WACKowski brothers film in another thread (V for Vendetta), I can resist the opportunity to bring up that the Stewart/Stuart name is thought to have come from the fact that the family through its French roots were Stewards to the Merovingian Kings and that the name Merovingian is used as a 'baddy' in The Matrix. Seems that the WACKowski brothers have a 'beef' with the French, as in the new film they also implicate the Lorraine Family (and there is an allusion to a mysterious French family in Speilberg's 'Munich', I guess they may have had a distant Austrian relative's antics held against them!!!). Seems it's open season on the French. Funnily enough the old court language of England was French.

 

[ChrisP]

I'm having trouble believing that because there's been people in Scotland since before the bronze ages.

there certainly have, but a lot of the people there now are a mix of the Irish emigrants and the local tribesmen

Also from that article.


The red headness comes from the Scots immigrating to Ireland. : P I'm a little Scot-Irish (Stewart/Stuart Clan) and my hair is a dark brown with a red shine, it looks copper in bright sunlight.

My hair's exactly the same I've got orangey bits on the temples too. It depends on who you believe as to which way the emigration went between the two, but I'm inclined to believe the irish side of things (and not just because I'm 80% irish either ). Up until the English decided to head across the divide they were largely uninvaded for the better part of 2500 years, allowing for... I don't know the word but it's easier to pass down your cultural history when there've been no invading cultures subduing it.

 

[dawny0826]

Actually it's the Scots that had red hair, not the Irish.

Not necessarily true. Red hair is common amongst both the Scots and the Irish.

Unless you're speaking strictly historical here...

 

[jewscout]

ummm i was kidding...:sarcastic

 

[jamaesi]

Not necessarily true. Red hair is common amongst both the Scots and the Irish.

Unless you're speaking strictly historical here...

Speaking historically.