... or by the gullibility of the faithful.sojourner said:
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Did Jesus ever Live ?
- Thread starter michel
- Start date
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
What's sad is you have such a wealth of knowledge which others could learn from, but instead you resort to petty insults. That's what's sad..Jayhawker Soule said:Do you have any idea when Paul died? Do you have any idea of when the gospels are thought to have been written and by whom? It's really a bit sad ...
Others can and will learn absolutely nothing so long as they feel perfectly justified to offer opinions - or even speculation - based on a gross poverty of relevant knowledge. If you're intent on participating in a debate thread, have enough respect for the topic at hand to at least know what you don't know. And no, it is highly unlikely that the Gospels were a post mortem Pauline forgery.jeffrey said:
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
kai said:
He was born in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth (unless, of course, you accept the idea that He never lived at all).
James
kai said:
2006 years is not a long time to have at least a physical remnant of the existence of jesus. If mary and joseph existed and truly are jesus' earthly parents then they would have something of him to pass on to the world. The egyptians left tokens of their existence, even the dinosaurs did too and they lived millions of years (I am not taking about their fossils, since people would say jesus resurrected body and soul - unbelievable). The body is purely physical.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
ProfLogic said:
:beach:
Or he lived and the birth narrative was creative back-fill produced decades later.JamesThePersian said:
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
Jayhawker Soule said:
Or any number of other variations on the theme that you can come up with, but as a Christian I reject all such and accept what I consider the truth. You can't expect me to be skeptical about the veracity of the Gospels surely? In any case, Kai was asking why Jesus was associated with Nazareth and yet had been born in Bethlehem. I answered him from the Christian perspective. You may answer him from the perspective of the skeptic if you so wish.
James
kai
ragamuffin
i think something must have happened there i am not a christian but the guy seems to have been a bit special and he teaches nothing but good people have twisted it over the years but he was not one of the bad guys and two thousand years is a long time to find evidence of someone who was neither an emporer or pharoah etc and judeah is a very small place in the roman empire
You paint with too wide a brush. There is a world liberal Christian theology populated by self-proclaimed Christians who choose not to park their brains outside when they walk into their Church. So, for example, I would not be at all surprised to find UU members rejecting the historicity of the virgin birth narrative much as they reject the historicity of the Ark narrative.JamesThePersian said:
Oh come on Guys, everyone knows Jesus was English;
this man says so!:-
http://www.lightstreamers.com/kimball.htm
My first book was entitled "Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus", which was strictly the historical accounts of the childhood of the most famous man who ever lived. This is the greatest non-fiction book for Christmas ever. At the time I always wondered why more people didn't know about the rest of the life of Jesus. I had studied the early life of Jesus after meeting two priests in South America who were in a sort of exile from the Vatican Security Force. They would tell me of manuscripts and histories that lay buried in the seventeen miles of vaults beneath the Vatican around a poker table. The book is the real Christmas Story beginning with the great grandfather of Jesus and ending with the death of Jesus' father Joseph when Jesus was about fourteen years old.
The "Hidden Story of the Childhood of Jesus" comes directly from the records written by Jesus' two brothers. They were included in the body of documents called the "Only Rule of Our Faith", which was the original Bible before the Bible. The first half of the book is a historical explanation of the ancient texts and the second half of the book contains the actual story of the family of Jesus translated from the ancient manuscripts themselves. The book is deliberately a very small. At the time I felt one of the reasons more people didn't know about the histories of Jesus' life was because they were buried in huge ponderous anthologies and unintelligible scholarly texts. The scholarly historians, who have verified the ancient manuscripts, have largely been atheists and therefore not credible to believers. The Believers have shut the doors to Extra-Biblical documents and therefore haven't looked for additional history for themselves. This book is purely historical, and though I am a believer, it allows "the cards to fall where they may".
WHY HAVEN'T WE HEARD OF THESE THINGS BEFORE?
The ancient Jews from 300 BC began the exclusion of ancient manuscripts. They invented the word "heresy" and from the time of the Macabean movement all the books outside the five books of Moses were banned from synagogues. The Christian Old Testament came in 73 BC when a council of 84 Priests had to travel to the great Library of Alexandria in Egypt to retrieve copies from the 740,000 scrolls that were there before the great fire in 63 BC. Amazingly the Old Testament was located in Palestine at the time. They had to travel to get copies of the Old Testament because of the ban on the rest of history. However, that delegation left the majority of Jewish and Christian history on the table at that time. That is why the Bible refers to some 84 ancient books that are not included in the Bible.
<---------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------------->
Rome knew of the great Druid University where Jesus lived and taught for a short time. There were many leaders in Rome, including Pontius Pilate, who were educated in England and knew about additional ancient works of Jesus.
Jesus' grandmother "Saint Ann" was born in England where her family (Joseph of Arimathea) owned a large interest in the tin and lead mines.
<-------------------------------------snip---------------------------------------------------->
My new book will be called the "Hidden King" or the real story of King Arthur. I could spend days telling you BANNER HEADLINES about that one. King Arthur was the first of the Princes of Wales from which we derive European and Asian royal bloodlines. This second King Arthur was a direct descendant of the family of Jesus. He continued the great mining tradition of the family of Jesus from England.
My research has appeared on the Discovery Channel, Arts and Entertainment Channel (Ancient Mysteries of the Bible) and on the Learning Channel. They have even shown the cover of my first book. I have been feeding them research for a couple of years through David Stirland.
I have a new web site "ancientmanuscripts.com, which will eventually house a portion of the five million ancient manuscripts on this subject. At this moment the site is the home of the Ancient American Magazine, which chronicles the most recent of the archeological discoveries in the country. Most archeology takes 20 years to come to the attention of the public and longer to get into our textbooks. The discoveries of this year are amazing. That is a subject for many completely different shows. That web site is only a month old and is still in the creation phase.
<---------------------------------------------Snip------------------------------------------->
Who are the Magi and what was implied by their visit to the birth of Jesus?
Who were the grandparents of Jesus and where were they born? (Saint Anna born in England,
Jesus' great Uncle Joseph of Arimathea born in Marorica Egypt)
Was Jesus really a poor Carpenter? (No. He came from the heirs to the throne of David who
were extremely rich. Later in His life his guardian father, Joseph of Arimathea, was the third
wealthiest man in the ancient world)
Why do we think Jesus' father was a poor carpenter and who was he really?
The Immaculate Conception was really the story of the birth of the Virgin Mary. That story is
incredibly interesting and is included in the book.
Tell us how Joseph and Mary really met?
When and where did Jesus' parents die? (Joseph in Palestine when Jesus was about fourteen or
fifteen and Mary in England in 48 AD.)
Who escaped Jerusalem with the Virgin Mary in the Exodus of the Faithful in 36 AD?
Are there stories about the life of the baby Jesus in Egypt? (Yes and they are in the book)
Who were Jesus' childhood friends?
Are their stories of the child Jesus?
Jesus played with the child Judas who eventually betrayed him.
<--------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------->
And finally folks, you have it all wrong, because according to this man:-
Why are our calendars off by seven years? What is the real date today? (We really live in the year 2005 which has implications around the world to this day)
So, wind you watches back one year, and I will be arranging tourist guides to take you all to see Pontius Pilate's flat (while a student here), and also a house which contains a too brush said to belong to Saint Anna, who was born in England.
|Please PM me for tickets, and I will advise you of the date of the next coach party...........:biglaugh:
this man says so!:-
http://www.lightstreamers.com/kimball.htm
My first book was entitled "Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus", which was strictly the historical accounts of the childhood of the most famous man who ever lived. This is the greatest non-fiction book for Christmas ever. At the time I always wondered why more people didn't know about the rest of the life of Jesus. I had studied the early life of Jesus after meeting two priests in South America who were in a sort of exile from the Vatican Security Force. They would tell me of manuscripts and histories that lay buried in the seventeen miles of vaults beneath the Vatican around a poker table. The book is the real Christmas Story beginning with the great grandfather of Jesus and ending with the death of Jesus' father Joseph when Jesus was about fourteen years old.
The "Hidden Story of the Childhood of Jesus" comes directly from the records written by Jesus' two brothers. They were included in the body of documents called the "Only Rule of Our Faith", which was the original Bible before the Bible. The first half of the book is a historical explanation of the ancient texts and the second half of the book contains the actual story of the family of Jesus translated from the ancient manuscripts themselves. The book is deliberately a very small. At the time I felt one of the reasons more people didn't know about the histories of Jesus' life was because they were buried in huge ponderous anthologies and unintelligible scholarly texts. The scholarly historians, who have verified the ancient manuscripts, have largely been atheists and therefore not credible to believers. The Believers have shut the doors to Extra-Biblical documents and therefore haven't looked for additional history for themselves. This book is purely historical, and though I am a believer, it allows "the cards to fall where they may".
WHY HAVEN'T WE HEARD OF THESE THINGS BEFORE?
The ancient Jews from 300 BC began the exclusion of ancient manuscripts. They invented the word "heresy" and from the time of the Macabean movement all the books outside the five books of Moses were banned from synagogues. The Christian Old Testament came in 73 BC when a council of 84 Priests had to travel to the great Library of Alexandria in Egypt to retrieve copies from the 740,000 scrolls that were there before the great fire in 63 BC. Amazingly the Old Testament was located in Palestine at the time. They had to travel to get copies of the Old Testament because of the ban on the rest of history. However, that delegation left the majority of Jewish and Christian history on the table at that time. That is why the Bible refers to some 84 ancient books that are not included in the Bible.
<---------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------------->
Rome knew of the great Druid University where Jesus lived and taught for a short time. There were many leaders in Rome, including Pontius Pilate, who were educated in England and knew about additional ancient works of Jesus.
Jesus' grandmother "Saint Ann" was born in England where her family (Joseph of Arimathea) owned a large interest in the tin and lead mines.
<-------------------------------------snip---------------------------------------------------->
My new book will be called the "Hidden King" or the real story of King Arthur. I could spend days telling you BANNER HEADLINES about that one. King Arthur was the first of the Princes of Wales from which we derive European and Asian royal bloodlines. This second King Arthur was a direct descendant of the family of Jesus. He continued the great mining tradition of the family of Jesus from England.
My research has appeared on the Discovery Channel, Arts and Entertainment Channel (Ancient Mysteries of the Bible) and on the Learning Channel. They have even shown the cover of my first book. I have been feeding them research for a couple of years through David Stirland.
I have a new web site "ancientmanuscripts.com, which will eventually house a portion of the five million ancient manuscripts on this subject. At this moment the site is the home of the Ancient American Magazine, which chronicles the most recent of the archeological discoveries in the country. Most archeology takes 20 years to come to the attention of the public and longer to get into our textbooks. The discoveries of this year are amazing. That is a subject for many completely different shows. That web site is only a month old and is still in the creation phase.
<---------------------------------------------Snip------------------------------------------->
Who are the Magi and what was implied by their visit to the birth of Jesus?
Who were the grandparents of Jesus and where were they born? (Saint Anna born in England,
Jesus' great Uncle Joseph of Arimathea born in Marorica Egypt)
Was Jesus really a poor Carpenter? (No. He came from the heirs to the throne of David who
were extremely rich. Later in His life his guardian father, Joseph of Arimathea, was the third
wealthiest man in the ancient world)
Why do we think Jesus' father was a poor carpenter and who was he really?
The Immaculate Conception was really the story of the birth of the Virgin Mary. That story is
incredibly interesting and is included in the book.
Tell us how Joseph and Mary really met?
When and where did Jesus' parents die? (Joseph in Palestine when Jesus was about fourteen or
fifteen and Mary in England in 48 AD.)
Who escaped Jerusalem with the Virgin Mary in the Exodus of the Faithful in 36 AD?
Are there stories about the life of the baby Jesus in Egypt? (Yes and they are in the book)
Who were Jesus' childhood friends?
Are their stories of the child Jesus?
Jesus played with the child Judas who eventually betrayed him.
<--------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------->
And finally folks, you have it all wrong, because according to this man:-
Why are our calendars off by seven years? What is the real date today? (We really live in the year 2005 which has implications around the world to this day)
So, wind you watches back one year, and I will be arranging tourist guides to take you all to see Pontius Pilate's flat (while a student here), and also a house which contains a too brush said to belong to Saint Anna, who was born in England.
|Please PM me for tickets, and I will advise you of the date of the next coach party...........:biglaugh:
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
Jayhawker Soule said:
Fair enough. maybe, I should have put traditional before Christian perspective. I'm sure you know better than to suggest that I park my brains when it comes to religion, however. Disagreeing with your opinion does not mean that I must be a blind follower of dogma. I chose my Church because I agree with Her teachings. I'm a convert, remember? Snide attacks on those who take their faith seriously rather than sharing your extreme skepticism do not do your argument any service. I'd also like to point out that your UU example is extremely poor. The majority of UUs I've come across wouldn't ever claim to be Christians themselves and I certainly don't consider their faith Christian either.
James
And disagreeing with your opinion does not render my post an ad hominem.JamesThePersian said:
The fact remains that, by counterposing skepticism to Christianity, you disinfranchise many, many Christians - that is a shakey platform from which to lecture others about respecting opinions.
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
Jayhawker Soule said:
No it doesn't. Your insinuation that I leave my brain outside the Church door, though, does.
James
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Personally, I find James' use of brainpower refreshing, even though we disagree somewhat theologically. But Jay is right, albeit in an abrasive way. I don't take the virgin birth as a literal event, so much as I do a mythological event. And I'm a mainline Protestant. I think that all scripture bears scrutiny (as I'm sure you know, James) in order to dig out the truths contained therein. But, just because I doubt the literal veracity of the account does not mean that I don't revere it as part of the tradition I have embraced that gives voice to my faith.