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Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Audie said:
All kinds of possible reasons. Lets try simple, with no
involvement of the supernatural.

Then we have one of many itinerant "healers"
No particularly large following. (later inflated)
The Roams thought him suspicious, so, they
killed him.

When, where,nobody knows.

If you like questions you cannot quite answer,
how odd is that for such a presumably important
event?

Nobody thought much of it, or, wanted to be
associated as they saw what could happen.

Nobody was interested in another corpse at the
place of the skull, bone hill, or however it translates.

Later, the idea of turning defeat into victory occurred
to what followers he had left, and they thought up
the story of him coming back to life By then, they
could get away with it.

If they had said at the time, "Hey you remember the
sky going dark, all the zombies, and the earthquake
last week?"

"Uh, earthquakes and the sky does dark? Earthquake?
We, ahh, dont exactly recall any of that... you feeling ok?"

It is not terribly original, there are many stories of
gods dying and coming back to life.

I am no psychologist or expert on religious passions,
so I dont know why they'd do that. Would anyone make
up such things?

Going by what happened with Joseph Smith's
story, or Mohammed's story, or or or, well, I guess
that it is not exactly unheard of to make things up
and get fanatical followers.

Why did those religious succeed so far, while
many others have failed? I dunno. It sure
is not because they are all true

Anyone can come up with a different scenario, but
I dont think they can come up with a more likely
one, especially if they require magic to make them work.
Click to expand...
Yeah maybe, who knows, I guess we won't find out until afterwards.
 
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J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
looks like fresh op material

go for the posting

but this posting......no
I have not dealt with a Face to face event
Click to expand...
Spartan said:
No face-to-face but my nephew, a number of others I've encountered, and myself have heard his voice when he spoke to us. Sounded like a man who was about mid 30's or so. I'd go into more detail but the skeptics would never buy it so I'm not going to waste my time with that.
Click to expand...
How you can you be sure it was Him? Aren't humans capable of self-deception?
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
It appears that you got your supposed theology degree from a creationist degree mill. The gospels are all anonymous and were not thought to have been written by the disciples. The only possible one actually written by the person that it is name for was Luke, and he was not a disciple. He was a follower of Paul. And they are far from independent for two clear reasons. First both Luke and Matthew copied large sections form Mark. If written today they would both be charged with plagiarism. Second the works went through a homogenization. The early church through out all sorts of works at the Council of Nicea. If it did not fit in the Bible that the church wanted they were not just banned, they were often destroyed. That effectively makes it one source. A student of the Bible would have known this. Again, if you need this backed up no problem.

Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell are both major idiots on your list. They pretended to be skeptics and assumed that if they could not disprove Jesus that he was real. That is not the way it works. One tries to see if there is valid evidence for something and then decides whether it is real or not.
Click to expand...
They threw out all Gnostic Gospels which make the bible unreliable to me.
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Considering the sights of Jesus after his death in the new testament mentioned memic those experiences of people who are grieving so hard they tend to see stuff. Jesus was suppose to be in his dead body and yet walked through a wall..............
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Riders said:
They threw out all Gnostic Gospels which make the bible unreliable to me.
Click to expand...
Deciding that the Gnostic Gospels were not valid was not the problem. They had that right to say "We don't think that these are accurate". But they went beyond that. They ordered them destroyed when found. They tried to purge the records. Perhaps they could see that gospels that got every more ridiculous in their claims made the four they chose look bad as well.
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Riders said:
They threw out all Gnostic Gospels which make the bible unreliable to me.
Click to expand...

So you prefer 2nd century gnostic pseudepigrapha over the first century Gospels?

Then you must agree with verse 114 from the Gospel of Thomas (which wasn't written by the disciple Thomas): "For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

So, are you ready to become a male so you can enter into heaven? LOL.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Spartan said:
So you prefer 2nd century gnostic pseudepigrapha over the first century Gospels?

Then you must agree with verse 114 from the Gospel of Thomas (which wasn't written by the disciple Thomas): "For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

So, are you ready to become a male so you can enter into heaven? LOL.
Click to expand...
You do realize that all of the Gospels qualify as pseudegrapha too, don't you? And we are not sure of the dates of most of them. Though the Gospel of Thomas was thought to be early second century, we really have no clue of the age of those that were destroyed. Though parts of Thomas may be older than the Gospels:

The Gnostic Gospels
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
You do realize that all of the Gospels qualify as pseudegrapha too, don't you? And we are not sure of the dates of most of them. Though the Gospel of Thomas was thought to be early second century, we really have no clue of the age of those that were destroyed. Though parts of Thomas may be older than the Gospels:

The Gnostic Gospels
Click to expand...
They were all copies of copies of copies of copies of copies
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Spartan said:
Educating the Lost

Who Wrote the Gospels?
Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship

Who Wrote the Gospels? Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship
Click to expand...
That page talks about Muslims who claim the Bibles writers are unknown. I would like to know what Muslim opinions are, Muslims started in the bible, and was a religion that believed in the Jewish Torah and was around the same time as Christians, I think Muslims have a lot of info.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Riders said:
You guys always use the scholar term as if you are speaking for every scholar out there. There are many many unchristian scholars believe me. They don't all agree with you guys.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are all kinds of scholars out there. But one needs to be able to tell the difference between a scholar and an apologist.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
skipping to the positive...….He is still alive
somewhere.....somehow...…

you will meet Him

the universe may be large
and you might be one in billions hiding in the crowd

but no matter......you will meet Him
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Funny I just did a search on how many scholars agree Jesus lived in the new testament etc, they said 100 PERCENT OF BIBLICAL SCHOLARS Biblical? This would include OMG yall base your version of scholars on Pastors and theology majors holy smolies I smell a scam. Thats a scam. You cant use biblical scholars as proof of all scholars. BYW ita not all scholars its all biblical scholars, just to correct you and every other Christian who keeps scamming me by claiming all scholars, thats a scam, I feel scammed.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Riders said:
You guys always use the scholar term as if you are speaking for every scholar out there. There are many many unchristian scholars believe me. They don't all agree with you guys.
Click to expand...


Sure an unchristian author but why would that be surprising...

I still put weight in the fruit of lives who believe in Christ, such as Jon Elliot who was speared
trying to reach the Mawani Indians before Shell Oil was able to carry out their plans to try and exterminate them (for being so violent)

 
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