Did Jesus Christ actually die?

[Skywalker]

Sorry that is still a non sequitur. God could have just "made" himself and said "hey "I'm God, and for some odd reason you have to kill me so that I can forgive you for an error that I made in the first place."

Of course that only makes it even more obvious that some Christian beliefs are just crazy.

Jesus didn't just come to die for our sins, he also came to teach us how to live. Why didn't Jesus have an earthly father? - Quora

Jesus of Nazareth did not have an earthly father because he is the Son of God who exists from all eternity. He had an earthly incarnation that followed the experience of humanity in being born of a woman, who was thus his mother. He was raised by his mother and an adoptive father, experiencing the growth and discipline that both parents bring. See the gospels, particularly Luke and John.

The Foundations of the Virgin Birth

Now somebody might think, as we're going to talk about this this morning, somebody might think that this whole idea of the virgin conception just fell out of the air, just sort of a...just sort of arrived in somebody's imagination. After all, if all the Jewish leaders didn't believe it and if all of the people didn't believe that Messiah was going to be God, and that there was going to be some kind of miraculous virgin birth take place, if they killed Him for saying He was the Son of God, if this wasn't part of Messianic expectation and all of the...all of the elite students of the Old Testament and so forth didn't really anticipate this reality, shouldn't we believe that this was something concocted by people so as to cause Jesus to somehow rise above the crowd? And those who wanted to do that on His behalf really invented Him as the God-Man?

Well the answer to that question is not at all. In fact, there are some serious foundations to this reality, and I want to show you what those foundations are this morning. Three of them.

Number one... And by the way, we're going to go through several points in the next few weeks. We're going to go through the foundations, the fallacies, and the facts of the virgin birth. But for today: The foundations. Is this something new? Is this something invented? Or does this have a foundation? Three things give it a foundation.

Number one: The Old Testament, the Old Testament. Go back to Genesis 3 in your Bible. We mentioned this in a recent message and I want to go back to it because of its foundation character. You're in the first dawning of redemptive history here,creation in chapter 1, and in chapter 2. Then in chapter 3 man falls into sin and he'scursed and woman is cursed by having pain in child bearing and having conflict in marriage. Man is cursed by having to earn his bread by the sweat of his brow and he too has to engage in the conflict that marriage brings.

Then, of course, then God pronounces a curse on the serpent, who is Satan. And part of the curse on Satan in verse 14 is he's going to be cursed more than every other animal. And then in verse 15, going behind the animal to Satan himself, "I will put enmity between you and the woman." And then it says this, "And between your seed and her seed. He shall bruise you on the head and you shall bruise Him on the heel."

Now this is a very important prophecy. This is really the first prophecy next to the one where God said, "In the day you eat of the Tree of Life you'll die," that was a prophecy, too. But this is the first prophecy that looks forward to redemption. There's coming someone. This someone is called "her seed," and this one who is her seed will bruise the head of Satan, a crushing deadly blow. Who is that? Well only one person could effect the deadly crushing blow on the head of Satan. Who was it? It was Christ. Satan bruised His heel, Satan dealt a blow against Christ obviously in His death on the cross, but it was only a minor wound and out of that wound came redemption. And the risen Christ came forth out of the grave triumphant to give the fatal blow to Satan. That will be executed on him. It was won at the cross, it will be finally executed when he is sentenced and cast into the Lake of Fire forever.

Now notice that it says the One who will crush the head of Satan is called her seed. I just remark, a woman doesn't have a seed. When God gave a promise to Abraham,God said this: His seed would bless the families of the earth. “In his seed would all the families of the earth be blessed." The man has the seed. A woman doesn't have the seed. Her seed, how could a woman have a seed? Only one time did a woman ever have a seed of her own and that by the miraculous intervention of God.

The Jews, if they knew Genesis, should have seen that. And then there is Isaiah. Turn to Isaiah 7 chapter 7, verse 14. The Jews, we know, were always looking for a sign,always looking for some supernatural indicator, some supernatural event that would point to God working. And so in verse 14 Isaiah...of chapter 7, Isaiah says, "The Lord will give you a sign." You want a sign? Here it is. "A virgin will be with child and bear a Son." Wow! That will be a sign. That doesn't happen. That can't happen. That's impossible. And if that happens, that is a sign. Furthermore, "When she brings forth that child she will call His name Immanuel, God. El is “God,” immanu is “with us." When the child is born name Him "God is here." That's a pretty clear sign.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, the Bible contradicts itself quite often.

Was there any other point to your post?

How does the Bible contradict itself in those verses? The theme is consistent that we are sinners who need a Savior. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. It was written by 66 different authors, and it has the same consistent message of God's holiness, God's love for his creation, and redemption.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus didn't just come to die for our sins, he also came to teach us how to live. Why didn't Jesus have an earthly father? - Quora



The Foundations of the Virgin Birth

Why did you use a source that refutes itself again?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How does the Bible contradict itself in those verses? The theme is consistent that we are sinners who need a Savior. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. It was written by 66 different authors, and it has the same consistent message of God's holiness, God's love for his creation, and redemption.

Do you not realize that in the other Gospels Jesus repeated states that he is not God? You can't use the Bible if you ignore the verses that refute your claims.

 

[Skywalker]

Why did you use a source that refutes itself again?

Genesis 3:15 mentions the virgin birth.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The article I quoted mentions that the virgin birth has to do with Jesus being divine.

 

[Skywalker]

Do you not realize that in the other Gospels Jesus repeated states that he is not God? You can't use the Bible if you ignore the verses that refute your claims.

Jesus said before Abraham was I am. John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Genesis 3:15 mentions the virgin birth.



The article I quoted mentions that the virgin birth has to do with Jesus being divine.

So what? The article also told us that it was written by people that could not understand the Bible. It is not a valid source.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus said before Abraham was I am. John 8:58

No, no, no. That Gospel claims that Jesus said that. That is not Jesus saying anything. Since the Gospels contradict each other how do you choose which Gospel to believe?

 

[Skywalker]

So what? The article also told us that it was written by people that could not understand the Bible. It is not a valid source.

We are to trust God, not people. The Bible is God's word. Jeremiah 17:5

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

But we are also to search the Scriptures to see what it says. Why do you disagree with what that article says about Genesis 3:18?

 

[Subduction Zone]

We are to trust God, not people. The Bible is God's word. Jeremiah 17:5



But we are also to search the Scriptures to see what it says. Why do you disagree with what that article says about Genesis 3:18?

The problem is that you have no idea how to "trust God".

And Genesis is a myth. We know that there never were only two people. There never was a flood of Noah.

 

[Skywalker]

No, no, no. That Gospel claims that Jesus said that. That is not Jesus saying anything. Since the Gospels contradict each other how do you choose which Gospel to believe?

How do the gospels contradict each other? If you look into the full context of them, it's apparent that they are consistent and harmonious. The Bible is written by 66 different authors and has the same theme of redemption, God's holiness, and the sinfulness of human beings. Bible Contradictions Explained: 4 Reasons the… | Zondervan Academic

Four reasons we find apparent contradictions in the gospels
1. Paraphrasing and interpretation
There were a number of languages spoken in first-century Palestine. Throughout the region, you’d likely hear Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Latin. Jesus likely spoke Aramaic. It’s thought to be the primary language spoken by most Jews throughout Palestine during this era.

When you realize that the gospels were written in Greek, the fact that Jesus probably spoke Aramaic becomes very significant. This means that most of his words had to be translated into Greek—making every quote an interpretation. Languages don’t necessarily have equivalent words or phrases to make translating one vocabulary into another a trouble-free endeavor. Each gospel writer had to interpret Jesus’ words and sayings in order to find equivalents in an entirely different language. Translation is interpretation.

This is one of the reasons that scholars have long held that we have Jesus’ “authentic voice” (ipsissima vox) rather than his “exact words” (ipsissima verba). We can trust the essential meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels even though we can’t know precisely what words Jesus used.

The gospel writers’ authority as interpreters of Christ’s story meant that their translation or paraphrase of Jesus’ words would focus on the theological implications.

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus is quoted as saying “Blessed are the poor” (Luke 6:20), but Matthew records him saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit” (Matt. 5:3). Now it could be that Jesus said both of these things at different times, but it’s also likely that Matthew felt it was extremely important to clearly communicate the spiritual significance of Jesus’ words.

We can see another example of this at the foot of the cross. Both Matthew and Mark quote the centurion as saying “Surely this man was the Son of God!” (Matt. 27:54, Mk. 15:39), but that’s not how Luke records it. In Luke 23:47, the centurion says, “Surely this was a righteous man.” This translation make sense in light of each author’s focus. Both Matthew and Mark are focused on emphasizing Jesus’ position as the Son of God, but Christ’s innocence and righteousness is a recurring theme in Luke’s gospel. The two iterations of the centurion’s comment don’t contradict each other, they simply focus on different theological implications.

If we expect that each other gospel writers are going to give us Jesus’ words verbatim, we’re holding the gospels to a historical standard that no other historical document would be able to meet—classical or modern. Remember, no one was standing around Jesus with a tape recorder.

 

[Skywalker]

The problem is that you have no idea how to "trust God".

And Genesis is a myth. We know that there never were only two people. There never was a flood of Noah.

Trusting God has to do with searching the Scriptures and not trusting everything people say. The only one we can trust is God. The Bereans searched the Scriptures. Acts 17:11

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How do the gospels contradict each other? If you look into the full context of them, it's apparent that they are consistent and harmonious. The Bible is written by 66 different authors and has the same theme of redemption, God's holiness, and the sinfulness of human beings. Bible Contradictions Explained: 4 Reasons the… | Zondervan Academic

You need to use proper sources. Apologetic sites just tend to be liars for Jesus. See if you can find any Biblical scholars that support you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Trusting God has to do with searching the Scriptures and not trusting everything people say. The only one we can trust is God. The Bereans searched the Scriptures. Acts 17:11

No, you first must demonstrate that the scriptures are trustworthy. Until you do that you have no idea if God wrote them or not.

 

[Skywalker]

You need to use proper sources. Apologetic sites just tend to be liars for Jesus. See if you can find any Biblical scholars that support you.

The Greek language shows that there is no contradiction in verses where people say there are contradictions. You have to look at the context of the verse to know the real meaning. Do The Resurrection Stories Contradict In The Gospels? | Reasons for Jesus

GETTING A GRIP ON THE GREEK
So what’s going on here? Is Matthew signifying that the women saw the angel coming down and rolling the stone away? If Matthew comes after Mark, then it feels like he’s adding an extra layer of supernatural ad hoc. While it makes the account sound more impressive, we now get this contradiction.

But let’s reconsider what Matthew says. We’re introduced to the passage about the angel by the Greek participle γὰρ (gar). Strong’s Greek Concordance defines it as: “For. A primary participle; properly, assigning a reason.” In other words, it exists to explain the earthquake and set of circumstances as the women found them.

As philosopher Tim McGrew points out, “Matthew uses an aorist participle, which could be (and in some versions is) translated with the English past perfect: “… for an angel of the Lord had descended …”

One such translation is Weymouth, who phrases Matthew 28:2 as follows: “But to their amazement, there had been a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord had descended from Heaven, and had come and rolled back the stone, and was sitting upon it.”

And here’s Young’s Literal Translation, which is about as a word-for-word Greek translation you can get: “and lo, there came a great earthquake, for a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone from the door, and was sitting upon it”

So Matthew isn’t claiming that the women saw the angel descend or that they saw the guards get knocked out. It’s not in the text. It seems like the critics are looking for fault here.

 

[Skywalker]

No, you first must demonstrate that the scriptures are trustworthy. Until you do that you have no idea if God wrote them or not.

Searching the Scriptures means not trusting whatever a pastor or priest says like he's God and looking into what the Bible says.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Greek language shows that there is no contradiction in verses where people say there are contradictions. You have to look at the context of the verse to know the real meaning. Do The Resurrection Stories Contradict In The Gospels? | Reasons for Jesus

But you once again use a poor source. If all you can find are what amount to Liars for Jesus why should anyone believe you? They ignored the fact that by the same standards that they use to claim Jesus says that he is God in John he also denies that he is God in the other three Gospels. You are using poor sources. When you can only find poor sources that support you that tells us that you are probably wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Searching the Scriptures means not trusting whatever a pastor or priest says like he's God and looking into what the Bible says.

Once again, you need to prove that the Scriptures are trustworthy in the first place. The proper assumption is "untrustworthy until proven otherwise".

How would you test the Scriptures? When I have tested them they have failed.

 

[Skywalker]

Once again, you need to prove that the Scriptures are trustworthy in the first place. The proper assumption is "untrustworthy until proven otherwise".

How would you test the Scriptures? When I have tested them they have failed.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Much has been written about the origin of the universe. Has it always been here, or did it have a beginning? If it did have a beginning, what caused it to come into existence? In the early twentieth century, an understanding emerged that gradually formed the prevailing theory among cosmologists. "In the beginning there was an explosion," explained Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg. "Not an explosion like those familiar on earth, starting from a definite center and spreading out to engulf more and more of the circumambient air, but an explosion which occurred simultaneously everywhere, filling all space from the beginning, with every particle of matter rushing apart from every other particle." Quoted by Steven Weinberg, The First Three Minutes.

Within the tiniest split second, the temperature hit a hundred thousand million degrees Centigrade. "This is much hotter than in the center of even the hottest star," he wrote.

The matter rushing apart, he explained, consisted of such elementary particles as negatively charged electrons, positively charged positrons, and neutrinos, which lack both electrical charge and mass. Interestingly, there were also photons: "The universe," he said, "was filled with light."

"The matter of the Universe," wrote Robert Jastrow, astronomer and founding director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, "was packed together into one dense mass under enormous pressure, and with temperatures ranging up to trillions of degrees. The dazzling brilliance of the radiation in this dense, hot Universe must have been beyond description. The picture suggests the explosion of a cosmic hydrogen bomb. The instant in which the cosmic bomb exploded marked the beginning of the universe. In a purely physical sense, it was the moment of creation." Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers.

From an infinitesimal point-which scientists call a singularity-the entire universe and time itself exploded into being. And science can't account for it.

Yet the very first verse in the Bible explains: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). As theologians have classically put it, "God created everything ex nihilo"-meaning "out of nothing."

Science is catching up with Scripture. Jastrow, who was not a Christian, famously remarked, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

 

[Skywalker]

But you once again use a poor source. If all you can find are what amount to Liars for Jesus why should anyone believe you? They ignored the fact that by the same standards that they use to claim Jesus says that he is God in John he also denies that he is God in the other three Gospels. You are using poor sources. When you can only find poor sources that support you that tells us that you are probably wrong.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32)

Buddha said at the end of his life, "I don't even know if there is a God. I am still searching for truth." The Koran, written many years after Mohammed's death, quotes Mohammed as saying, "I am in need of forgiveness." But listen to what Jesus says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

At this point, when Jesus says that He is the only way to heaven, we have a dilemma. We have to decide who and what Jesus really is: a lunatic, a liar, or the Lord.