Did Allah create life?

[K.Venugopal]

The Quran says Allah created life. Does this mean Allah was dead till He created life? But how could a dead Allah have done anything? Therefore it has to be that Allah has always been alive and He could not have created life. Have I spotted an error in the Quran?

 

[kai]

is that a paradox, no

"Whatever comes in your mind, it is not Allah." Islamic mystics say: "Whatever comes to your mind, Allah is far far beyond your conceptions. And you are always in a closed jar with your surroundings." Descartes says: "Humans are limited. The limited one cannot think about the limitless one." The German writer Goethe described the entity Allah as, "O The Unknown Existence! They glorify You Your one thousand and one names. I wouldn't be able to glorify You even with Your thousands of names because You are above all exaltations!" Philosophers explain Allah's existence as an unimaginable entity. Allah is not a thing that humans can know and grasp. Eyes cannot see Him; ears cannot hear Him. So, we have to believe what Allah's messengers brought to us from Him. How can Allah be known? He is the alpha and omega. He is the source of reason and of knowledge. Our existence is a shadow of Allah's light. Our knowledge is a drop from His unimaginable knowledge. Yes, at some level there is a way to know Allah. However, this way is totally different than the way we know the material world. People who are trying to understand Him in the wrong way are ones who couldn't break their egos, and couldn't reach their deep down insight.Unfortunate people who say "I looked for Allah and couldn't find Him." Then they unveil their deviation from believing in Allah in the name of science and philosophy.




Essence and Nature of Allah

 

[K.Venugopal]

is that a paradox, no

"Whatever comes in your mind, it is not Allah." Islamic mystics say: "Whatever comes to your mind, Allah is far far beyond your conceptions. And you are always in a closed jar with your surroundings." Descartes says: "Humans are limited. The limited one cannot think about the limitless one." The German writer Goethe described the entity Allah as, "O The Unknown Existence! They glorify You Your one thousand and one names. I wouldn't be able to glorify You even with Your thousands of names because You are above all exaltations!" Philosophers explain Allah's existence as an unimaginable entity. Allah is not a thing that humans can know and grasp. Eyes cannot see Him; ears cannot hear Him. So, we have to believe what Allah's messengers brought to us from Him. How can Allah be known? He is the alpha and omega. He is the source of reason and of knowledge. Our existence is a shadow of Allah's light. Our knowledge is a drop from His unimaginable knowledge. Yes, at some level there is a way to know Allah. However, this way is totally different than the way we know the material world. People who are trying to understand Him in the wrong way are ones who couldn't break their egos, and couldn't reach their deep down insight.Unfortunate people who say "I looked for Allah and couldn't find Him." Then they unveil their deviation from believing in Allah in the name of science and philosophy.

In short, is Allah life?

 

[sindbad5]

In short, is Allah life?
yes, if you mean by life existance.

does allah created life?
yes, if you mean by life the creatures

does allah recognizable by the 5 senses?
no, at least not in this life

does allah recognizable by mind?
yes, if you don't mean the physical shape

does allah has a physical shape?
even physics is a creature of allah, at this point the human mind knowledge and limits reachs its top end.

 

[K.Venugopal]

In short, is Allah life?
yes, if you mean by life existance.

If Allah is life, then how can we say He created life? Would it not be tantamount to saying Allah created Himself? If he created Himself, there would have been a time when He did not exist. How can he who did not exist do anything?

does allah created life?
yes, if you mean by life the creatures

By life I do not mean the creatures. I mean that which enlivens the creatures.

does allah recognizable by the 5 senses?
no, at least not in this life. does allah recognizable by mind?
yes, if you don't mean the physical shape

Life (or Allah) is the basis of all our recognition.

does allah has a physical shape?
even physics is a creature of allah, at this point the human mind knowledge and limits reachs its top end.

All creatures - all creation - is nothing other than forms of Allah. Hence, a better word than creation would be manifestation.

 

[Popeyesays]

The Quran says Allah created life. Does this mean Allah was dead till He created life? But how could a dead Allah have done anything? Therefore it has to be that Allah has always been alive and He could not have created life. Have I spotted an error in the Quran?

What if God pre-existed the universe? Then God would not be part of the universe, but rather the universe would be PART of God.

Regards,
Scott

 

[yossarian22]

What if God pre-existed the universe? Then God would not be part of the universe, but rather the universe would be PART of God.

Regards,
Scott

That does not answer the question, it simply delays it.

 

[Popeyesays]

That does not answer the question, it simply delays it.

Okay, next step.

If God is not part of the universwe then His existence has nothing to do with life in the universe. Life is part of the Creation, not the Creator.

What God is or is not is beyond our comprehension.

Regards,
Scott

 

[yossarian22]

This may just hijack the thread, but anyhow...

Okay, next step.

If God is not part of the universwe then His existence has nothing to do with life in the universe. Life is part of the Creation, not the Creator.

Who said anything about life?
I speak of existence.

What God is or is not is beyond our comprehension.
Regards,
Scott

Then any attempt to define it is a thorough waste of time and energy. So why bother attempting?

 

[Popeyesays]

This may just hijack the thread, but anyhow...

Who said anything about life?
I speak of existence.

Then any attempt to define it is a thorough waste of time and energy. So why bother attempting?

The original post is a syllogistic construction which postulates if God LIVED or NOT LIVED.
The word 'existe" did not "exist" in the original presentation.

The existence of God must have been a fact before any of the material universe came into being. Since we are part of that Creation, then we have no competence to determine what God may or may not be. However it is our nature to postulate such questions, what we have to realize is any presumption on our part is simply that,
a presumption.

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

What if God pre-existed the universe? Then God would not be part of the universe, but rather the universe would be PART of God.

We are conscious that the universe and everything in it is subject to change. However, this would not have been obvious if our consciousness did not emanate from the changeless. Since the very qualities of life are change (as in the expression 'throbbing with life') and consciousness (based on the changeless), we might deduce that the link between the changeless (God) and the changeful (universe) is life. Therefore God could neither have created ever existing life nor could He have pre-existed the universe. They are ever part and parcel.

 

[K.Venugopal]

If God is not part of the universwe then His existence has nothing to do with life in the universe. Life is part of the Creation, not the Creator.

If life is not part of the creator, then there is no creator as there cannot be a dead creator.

What God is or is not is beyond our comprehension.

Do you mean the spiritual enterprise of mankind thus far has been a wasted effort?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Who said anything about life? I speak of existence.

Is there an existence that has no life?

 

[Popeyesays]

If life is not part of the creator, then there is no creator as there cannot be a dead creator.

Do you mean the spiritual enterprise of mankind thus far has been a wasted effort?

It is the nature of man to seek to unravel mysteries. There is no0thing in existence that is better at unravgeling mysteries than man's rational soul. God is at the same time the most Manifest of the Manifest and the most Hidden of the Hidden.

The only way to behold the Essence of God is through those Divine Manifestations He sends from time to time.

"Thou art He Who from everlasting hath been clothed with majesty, with authority and power, and will continue unto everlasting to be arrayed with honor, with strength and glory. The learned, one and all,
stand aghast before the signs and tokens of Thy handiwork, while the wise find themselves, without exception, impotent to unravel the mystery of Them Who are the Manifestations of Thy might and power. Every man of insight hath confessed his powerlessness to scale the heights of Thy knowledge, and every man of learning hath acknowledged his failure to fathom the nature of Thine Essence . Having barred the way that leadeth unto Thee, Thou hast, by virtue of Thine authority and through the potency of Thy will, called into being Them Who are the Manifestations of Thy Self, and hast entrusted Them with Thy message unto Thy people, and caused Them to become the Day-Springs of Thine inspiration, the Exponents of Thy Revelation, the Treasuries of Thy Knowledge and the Repositories of Thy Faith, that all men may, through Them, turn their faces towards Thee, and may draw nigh unto the kingdom of Thy Revelation and the heaven of Thy grace."

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

The only way to behold the Essence of God is through those Divine Manifestations He sends from time to time.

... "Divine Manifestation He sends from time to time" is not to be thought of as courtiers that a King sends, but as individuals of self-realization who then celebrate - not to show-off their greatness but to enable us to behold the greatness within us. Be it as it may, please enlighten me as to whether the Quran is in error in stating that Allah created life.

 

[Popeyesays]

... "Divine Manifestation He sends from time to time" is not to be thought of as courtiers that a King sends, but as individuals of self-realization who then celebrate - not to show-off their greatness but to enable us to behold the greatness within us.

I don't really have more than a quibble with that.

... Be it as it may, please enlighten me as to whether the Quran is in error in stating that Allah created life.

Allah did indeed create life. What I challenge is the statement that God is life as we know it. Life as we know it is part of Creation, a state of being within Creation. If God was BEFORE Creation, then He is not "alive" by any definition which we as Creatures can comprehend.

Regards,
Scott

 

[yossarian22]

Is there an existence that has no life?

Now that is an interesting debate, but a bit off topic.

The original post is a syllogistic construction which postulates if God LIVED or NOT LIVED.
The word 'existe" did not "exist" in the original presentation.

True

The existence of God must have been a fact before any of the material universe came into being. Since we are part of that Creation, then we have no competence to determine what God may or may not be. However it is our nature to postulate such questions, what we have to realize is any presumption on our part is simply that,
a presumption.
Regards,
Scott

That is just a dodge around the question. The statement "God in incomprehensible" does nothing but invalidate virtually every religion.
Why bother attempting to postulate? It is nothing more than a waste of time, every postulate made is flat out wrong.
And what about this God's actions? Wouldn't they be just as incomprehensible as the God itself?
And if something is totally incomprehensible, why presume it exists at all? Hell, even saying "God exists" is a false statement.

By saying "God is incomprehensible", you have effectively nullified the validity of any religion. They become nothing more than glorified political doctrines.

 

[Popeyesays]

Now that is an interesting debate, but a bit off topic.

True

That is just a dodge around the question. The statement "God in incomprehensible" does nothing but invalidate virtually every religion.
Why bother attempting to postulate? It is nothing more than a waste of time, every postulate made is flat out wrong.
And what about this God's actions? Wouldn't they be just as incomprehensible as the God itself?
And if something is totally incomprehensible, why presume it exists at all? Hell, even saying "God exists" is a false statement.

By saying "God is incomprehensible", you have effectively nullified the validity of any religion. They become nothing more than glorified political doctrines.

I have not nullified any religion, I have simply stated that we and the rest of the universes are contingent upon God's creative impulse. He is not. Since He is other than us we have no capacity to understandHis Essence of Being. It is a mystery that is ultimately beyond us. The worship of God is in the journey not in an arrival that we cannot anticipate ever happening at all.

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

Allah did indeed create life. What I challenge is the statement that God is life as we know it.

Do we know life? Isn't life as mysterious as God? But the difference is that God is only a concept for us while life is what we are all about. Postulation of a God is a wise step in man's understanding of Truth, just as man created idols to further simplify his grasp of a concept truly bewildering. But getting stuck to the idol or God-concept is to become fossiled as a searcher of truth. I think the time has come for man to divert his attention to the very life he has within him to discover Truth. We have to stop relying on idols.

Life as we know it is part of Creation, a state of being within Creation. If God was BEFORE Creation, then He is not "alive" by any definition which we as Creatures can comprehend.

We are familiar with life, though it is still an enigma to us. Can we imagine life to be anything else than life? Life is indivisible, whether ours or God's. We are life clothed variously - our clothes keep changing and our clothes keep us from readily recognizing life. God is life itself - with no clothes. Naked is the Truth!

 

[Popeyesays]

Do we know life? Isn't life as mysterious as God? But the difference is that God is only a concept for us while life is what we are all about. Postulation of a God is a wise step in man's understanding of Truth, just as man created idols to further simplify his grasp of a concept truly bewildering. But getting stuck to the idol or God-concept is to become fossiled as a searcher of truth. I think the time has come for man to divert his attention to the very life he has within him to discover Truth. We have to stop relying on idols.

We are familiar with life, though it is still an enigma to us. Can we imagine life to be anything else than life? Life is indivisible, whether ours or God's. We are life clothed variously - our clothes keep changing and our clothes keep us from readily recognizing life. God is life itself - with no clothes. Naked is the Truth!

I know this the u,niverse was created by God. Life is part of the universe. Why should I attribute "life" or what I know as "life" to the Creator of life
It assumes that God and I are of the same substance, and I see no reason to make that assumption.

Regards,
Scott