Dharmic Religions Only: Evolutionary Science and Hindu/Buddhist worldviews.

[निताइ dasa]

While on the subject, I would like to draw a clear distinction between the four Vedas, the Vedanga (auxillary texts) and the Purana. Let us not mix them all up into one single body of scripture - for they are not. In other words, Baudhayana's sutras - though held in high regard - are not Veda.

It depends on the school. For us (and Kalyanji) all of them fall into one body of knowledge collectively referred the Vedas. That is why the field is referred to as Vedic Mathematics. We do not subscribe to the limited scope of all the four Vedas. Vedas refers to us as all 4 Vedas, along with Upavedas, as well as the Puranas (and Upapuranas) and that is the definition I am basing my argument. Shastra or scripture (called Sabda) refers all of them.

. A prayer authored by a poet is far removed by a statement that attempts to provide the speed of the Sun or light. Therefore, we not discussing the Veda, but Sayana, who was from the 14th Century CE and this is not strictly relevant to the topic of Vedic knowledge.

My question is how the heck Sayana was able to figure out light speed, without the instruments we had today. Also in his commentary he says "it is remembered" which means that astrologers knew this fact previously. Again this shows signs of a highly advanced civilization, far more advanced than any in that time, even materially.

n Pythagoras, the general acceptance is that the properties of a right angled triangle were known well before his time, discovered independently around the world by different civilizations. Pythagoras is known to have traveled through Egypt and this theorom was known to Egyptians thousands of years before his time (~2400 BC).

Again would like to see proof.

As you agree, this does not say that the Earth is spherical.

It certainly implies it. Such statements are not possible if they simply saw earth as flat.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram sayaK ji

Egypt and babylon certainly had their own advanced math. Entire books.

Did you know that Egypt and Babilon were once a part of Bharata Varsha ?

in Bharata Varsha Veda was shared Knowledge , .....we have just discussed this in a nice thread startrd by @kalyan ji

now I wanted to talk more about Ayurveda , ...but unfortunatly l have now wasted too much time replying to the above prehaps tomorow there will be anoppertunity to discuss with open minded persons ???

 

[निताइ dasa]

2) Your analysis of spherical earth is unconvincing. It is always a problem for a flat earth cosmology as to what is happening to the sun and the moon. Most believed that there were realms in the underworld/beneath oceans where the sun goes and it becomes day there.

Unconvincing for you maybe, convincing for many.

3) The atomic theory comes from Vaisesika which either predates or is contemporaneous with the writers of Bhagavatum (according to history). The atomic theory of Kanada is good, but obviously the atomic sciences of modern physics have progressed far far beyond that.

Never said it didn't.

. The ayurvedic texts predate Bhagavata Purana whose time of composition according to historians is at most 4th century CE. In the case of fetal development the primary work is Susruta Samhita (400BCE-100 CE), whose authors were clearly practicing doctors who did surgeries and gained extensive knowledge about the human body. T

The thing is many people don't accept the dating by western arcahelogers of Hindu texts. We Vaishnavs for instance claim the Bhagavatam was spoken 5000 years ago (3000BC when Sri Krsna left the earth) and the Vedas are eternal.

Does it all come as revelations from scripture. No, certainly not.

I believe shastra played a fundamental part in the formation of the ideas. Yes not all came from scripture, but the scientific ideas that are there, scripture is clear on.

 

[निताइ dasa]

I think he is just playing around or he has ZERO knowledge of history. Anyone who has atleast a least bit of familiarity with the Indian/Bhaaratiya spiritual history knows that Vedam is the cause of Universe and every language and every concept came from brilliant Vedam. Vedam is NOT a book and it does not have any Language to begin with.....

---Slave of Chinna Jeeyar Swamy

Jaya Sadhu Shastra. It is okay prabhuji that is the difference between us and then. For us we have deep faith in Shastra and Sadhu while they see the Vedas are a material thing composed by a civlisation at that time. They have a similiar view of the Vedas that my father does, and the amount of times we have had a debate on this is crazy. Ultimately they lack that Sraddha, and therefore it is very hard for them to understand our position. There is a verse if CC which goes something like this:

dekhiye na dekhe yatha abhaktera gana, uluke dekhiya yena suriyera kirana

"The non-devotees cannot see what the devotees see, just like an owl can not see the rays of the sun (because it sleeps during the daytime)."

 

[sayak83]

Namaskaram sayaK ji



Did you know that Egypt and Babilon were once a part of Bharata Varsha ?

in Bharata Varsha Veda was shared Knowledge , .....we have just discussed this in a nice thread startrd by @kalyan ji

now I wanted to talk more about Ayurveda , ...but unfortunatly l have now wasted too much time replying to the above prehaps tomorow there will be anoppertunity to discuss with open minded persons ???

I do not think that India and babylon was ever a part of Bharatvarsha, though thay had extensive trade networks, just like India has today with other countries today. Fortunately since the amount of writings that survive in Egypt and the Babylon are extensive, archaeologists know quite emphatically that they were seperate civilizations than the one that developed in Indus or the classical Vedic civilization of India. Not same people, not same language, not same worldview, not same religion, not same social-economic structure. Just general similarities you expect for neighboring civilizations having trade contacts. Being a DIR forum, I did not reply in Kalyan's thread as it would start a debate.

 

[sayak83]

Unconvincing for you maybe, convincing for many.



Never said it didn't.



The thing is many people don't accept the dating by western arcahelogers of Hindu texts. We Vaishnavs for instance claim the Bhagavatam was spoken 5000 years ago (3000BC when Sri Krsna left the earth) and the Vedas are eternal.



I believe shastra played a fundamental part in the formation of the ideas. Yes not all came from scripture, but the scientific ideas that are there, scripture is clear on.

I have never said that there is not some scientific ideas in the scriptures consistent with what the investigators of that day understood about the world, all I have said is that when it comes to the physical world, the current scientific knowledge (done not only by Westerners but modern Indians, and indeed people from all around the world) far far outstrips anything one can find in the scriptures. A single miniscule topic in science (like say how water flows through a channel or a tube) will have literally hundreds and hundreds upon books devoted to it to explicate the flowing of water in greater and greater depth and detail. Having this knowledge helps us prevent floods, keep and maintain dams, find out underwater reservoirs, plan irrigation techniques for greater food and pump water through miles and miles of pipes so that every house can have it. Only such detailed knowledge and theory building can be useful in doing actual things in the material world for activities associated with samsara. You cannot get this kind of knowledge from sruti.

I hope my position on this is not being misunderstood. I believe that Indian writings associated with Veda, Upanisads and their commentators have extremely valuable insights into the ultimate concerns of human beings and a means by which a holy life can be lead. But I do not require to reject aspects of science or other parts of the secular world to do this.

 

[kalyan]

I have already replied. Nobody invented them. individual mathematical relations crop up so often in so many places that its silly to name an inventor. Calculus was invented in Europe as a specialized mathematical discipline (using contributions from everywhere certainly) and trigonometry existed as a specialized discipline since the dawn of civilizations.

You stand defeated on all the questions..
1. FIbonacci series
2. Binomial theorem
3. Binary numbers
4. Pascal triangle

Calculus u already showed ur ignorance on claiming archimedes as the crux of calculus is infinite series which Indians were using 250 yr prior newton.

Still waiting for your replies on first 4 or you LOSE the argument

Watch the Smriti Irani speech in parliament the other day, she talks about how congress government tampered with text books to brainwash Indians from early age..Make some connection

 

[kalyan]

Just in case there is any confusion. Algebra and the decimal number system was definitely invented as a specialized mathematical discipline in India, but not in Vedic time.

There you go, atleast you admitted, thank god

 

[sayak83]

You stand defeated on all the questions..
1. FIbonacci series
2. Binomial theorem
3. Binary numbers
4. Pascal triangle

Calculus u already showed ur ignorance on claiming archimedes as the crux of calculus is infinite series which Indians were using 250 yr prior newton.

Still waiting for your replies on first 4 or you LOSE the argument

All this is going on in your head Kalyan. You hear only what you want to hear and nothing else. The self can be its own worst enemy. Try listening more to others.

 

[kalyan]

All this is going on in your head Kalyan. You hear only what you want to hear and nothing else. The self can be its own worst enemy. Try listening more to others.

I simply asked a question as where these originated from? Do you have answer or not...?

 

[sayak83]

I simply asked a question as where these originated from? Do you have answer or not...?

And I have said that individual elements in maths crop up so frequently everywhere that its silly to say anybody invents them. Systems of mathematics as specialized practice can be said to invented in some place in some time. Examples would be in India algebra and decimal mathematics, in Greece geometry and in Europe calculus and modern set theory. Trigonometry was probably in Sumer.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Namaskaram shivsomashekhar ji

prabhu ji , ...I very purpousfuly said Vedic Cosmology please do not side step the issue the 4 Vedas are not Veda in its entirity

But they are. The Veda is a very specific corpus of texts - Rig, Sama, Yajur and Atharvana. Nothing else is Veda, though some texts may be accorded equal status by certain groups. I understand that within the Hare Krishna community, the usage of Vedic is rather loose to include a variety of other texts (once a Hare Krishna told me that Sambar and Gulab Jamun are Vedic recipes). But outside the community, that is not necessarily so and we need to be specific. Puranic is not Vedic.

I will take this to mean that when you made your original statement that "all math problems will be solved if one turns to the Veda" you did not mean any of the four Vedas, but instead the Puranas and the Mahabharata. That would be a whole other discussion.

namaskaram ji

what Prabu ji about Dhanvantari ?......Agnivesha is acreditted only with forming one branch of Ayurveda and of comitting it into writen form

Let us stick to humans. Dhanvantari was not human. Atreya and Agnivesha are the foremost known humans in Indian medical science. And Agnivesha did not write anything. He lived before writing began in India.

For get Hippocrates , merely another great inturpreter , ...

Interpreter of what? Please go read about him if you haven't. He is the father of Western Medicine and the doctor who treated you last, in all probability took the Hippocratic oath.

 

[LuisDantas]

why must you take everything as a personal insult ???

You are mistaken about that as well.

While I often make a point of indicating your most puzzling statements with the emphasis I find most constructive in each case, I do so from a position that does not involve giving you the power to insult me.

Being in such a position would be pointless.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

My question is how the heck Sayana was able to figure out light speed, without the instruments we had today.

The likely explanation is that he did not. Like I said earlier, that commentary is open to interpretation and the default reading is about the movement of the Sun and not light. Even if we were to to attempt the latter, I am not convinced about the conversions.

Besides, Sayana was an Advaitin. If he had magical powers - don't you think he should have used them to see that Mayavada is a false doctrine and change his affiliation or solve the problem of world hunger, instead of wasting these powers on mundane matters like the speed of the sun (or light) and writing vague, ambiguous commentaries ?

Again would like to see proof.

We have solid proof in the form of the standing pyramids - that were built by the old Kingdom back in 2400 BC - a feat unparalleled by any other civilization of note.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

There you go, atleast you admitted, thank god

He is making it clear that it is not Vedic and I thought that is what you were trying to prove - that all Math in this world first came out of the Veda.

Now it seems like you are happy if someone just accepts they came from India - even if from a much more recent time. That is quite a compromise

 

[kalyan]

And I have said that individual elements in maths crop up so frequently everywhere that its silly to say anybody invents them. Systems of mathematics as specialized practice can be said to invented in some place in some time. Examples would be in India algebra and decimal mathematics, in Greece geometry and in Europe calculus and modern set theory. Trigonometry was probably in Sumer.

If I asked you, who invented Alternating current ? would you say that AC current already was use in china ? What a DUMB thing and way to HIDE your ignorance ?

Your answer should be AC Current was invented by Nikola Tesla.

In the same way, give me the answers you know and don't be a coward!

 

[sayak83]

If I asked you, who invented Alternating current ? would you say that AC current already was use in china ? What a DUMB thing and way to HIDE your ignorance ?

Your answer should be AC Current was invented by Nikola Tesla.

In the same way, give me the answers you know and don't be a coward!

Actually I won't say that AC current was invented by Mr. Tesla as its wrong. According to wiki

The first alternator to produce alternating current was a dynamo electric generator based on Michael Faraday's principles constructed by the French instrument maker Hippolyte Pixii in 1832.[4] Pixii later added acommutator to his device to produce the (then) more commonly used direct current. The earliest recorded practical application of alternating current is by Guillaume Duchenne, inventor and developer ofelectrotherapy. In 1855, he announced that AC was superior to direct current for electrotherapeutic triggering of muscle contractions.[5]

Alternating current technology had first developed in Europe due to the work of Guillaume Duchenne (1850s), The Hungarian Ganz Works (1870s), Sebastian Ziani de Ferranti (1880s), Lucien Gaulard, and Galileo Ferraris.

In 1876, Russian engineer Pavel Yablochkov invented a lighting system based on a set of induction coils where the primary windings were connected to a source of AC. The secondary windings could be connected to several 'electric candles' (arc lamps) of his own design.[6][7] The coils Yablochkov employed functioned essentially as transformers.[6]

In 1878, the Ganz factory, Budapest, Hungary, began manufacturing equipment for electric lighting and, by 1883, had installed over fifty systems in Austria-Hungary. Their AC systems used arc and incandescent lamps, generators, and other equipment.[8]

A power transformer developed by Lucien Gaulard and John Dixon Gibbs was demonstrated in London in 1881, and attracted the interest of Westinghouse. They also exhibited the invention in Turin in 1884.

And this is wiki. I have to read the entire history of the invention of electricity and fact check it before I can be confident enough to say anything about the matter. Regarding anything before 17th century, there is too little historical data to pinpoint any inventors at all of any specific piece of knowledge or technology.

 

[kalyan]

Actually I won't say that AC current was invented by Mr. Tesla as its wrong. According to wiki

And this is wiki. I have to read the entire history of the invention of electricity and fact check it before I can be confident enough to say anything about the matter. Regarding anything before 17th century, there is too little historical data to pinpoint any inventors at all of any specific piece of knowledge or technology.

oh my god, you are delusional

 

[sayak83]

oh my god, you are delusional

No, I am scrupulous.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Besides, Sayana was an Advaitin. If he had magical powers - don't you think he should have used them to see that Mayavada is a false doctrine and change his affiliation or solve the problem of world hunger, instead of wasting these powers on mundane matters like the speed of the sun (or light) and writing vague, ambiguous commentaries ?

LOL